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On the flip side, "bloat" leeds to more choices if you want to use them. Like MiB has said, if you don't like it don't buy it. I'm enthusiastic that there's 3PPs out there to help me get my rulebook fix while Pazio hits the core stuff and adventures.
But there in lies the flaw and thus thinking that leads to the dark side; that being the belief that bloat won't affect other rules because it doesn't have to be used. Every book created should relate to the core rules if it is going to be substantive and by that nature it impacts everything else. If a rule suddenly conflicts and it's determined the core rule is what needs changed it suddenly cascades across all the books, not just the one book in question. So suddenly you have the polymorph spell problem in 3.x and all its variants or the extra types of actions that because of their incorporation the necessity of including dedicated space in every book published later was needed. The less rules introduced the less likely problems like this occur. Paizo realizes that and doesn't want the headache nor do a lot of fan base. Keep it simple and focus on what everyone really wants overall, more adventures and campaign information.
A product I would like to see would be a Golarion Atlas, similar to the FR Atlas, only more focused on maps and less on story. Maybe a collection of all the region maps from the various Chronicle books and such.
Woot! Top of page.
I'd like to see a Psionics book from Paizo.
EDIT: Ehh. I see you were repying to the implied idea of a setting reboot. Yeah, I wouldn't expect that either. Some degree of Metaplot, yes. Setting Reboot, no. Consider my reply to be revised.
Thats cool! No, I want and frankly expect Paizo to have the world living and breathing, but I don't want frequent massive continent spanning super tragedies.
I'd rather nation level changes and calamities, a new king, a great war, and city being almost destroyed and having to be rebuilt. And not those every month. Use sparingly!
I have to agree with most of this. In fact, over the past 2 years i sat down with 6 friends and wrote a technology book for pathfinder (not kidding either). Its divided into 5 era's
1 - dark ages/classic fantasy
2 - Victorian/steam punk
3 - modern/contemporary
4 - near future/cyberpunk
5 - far future/space operawith that 168 page pdf, i have no need for a pre-planed adventure or campaign specific guide ever...
I'd like to see that. Do you mind sharing / distributing?
But there in lies the flaw and thus thinking that leads to the dark side; that being the belief that bloat won't affect other rules because it doesn't have to be used. Every book created should relate to the core rules if it is going to be substantive and by that nature it impacts everything else. If a rule suddenly conflicts and it's determined the core rule is what needs changed it suddenly cascades across all the books, not just the one book in question. So suddenly you have the polymorph spell problem in 3.x and all its variants or the extra types of actions that because of their incorporation the necessity of including dedicated space in every book published later was needed. The less rules introduced the less likely problems like this occur.
That's not a result of having a lot of rulebooks, that's a result of a company not properly handling the fact they have a lot of rulebooks. It's like saying the concept of cars is flawed because one company didn't put seat belts in theirs.
A product I would like to see would be a Golarion Atlas, similar to the FR Atlas, only more focused on maps and less on story. Maybe a collection of all the region maps from the various Chronicle books and such.
Ooo, I'll second this.
Please, no Pathfinder epic rules
My players and I would really like a pathfinder epic level book.
If the Pit is reluctant to do Psionics, then they really need to take a crack at Epic Rules.
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Combine it with something like the Stronghold Builders Guide (which I loved), as well as a snippet on truly epic construction (like the bridge in Oppara, or Aroden's Arch).
The Stronghold Builder's Guide is my one 3E book (not 3.5) I'll never give up. We've used it extensively now in two campaigns for player run strongholds. In both cases the PCs decided to make their homes in places they cleaned out. Both times they needed to do some significant repairs, and this book was instrumental in helping us know what was involved in said repairs.
I wouldn't mind seeing a combo stronghold, massive construction (I really want to build a bridge here), mass-combat book.
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If I were to make single request regarding new content I would ask that they (for the near-term) focus on holes in the rules and not build on existing (or trample over existing) rules. I think this can be a very fine line to walk, and one that the splatbooks from the 3.5 days really didn't do terribly well. For now I want to see new and innovative things, not a re-hashing of existing concepts.
Adding new classes for example may or may not be appropriate. A spontaneously casting priestly type would be appropriate, as there are no existing rules for this type of characte (yes I realize that's what the Oracle is), but a "warmage" or the like might fall into the "we already can do this with a sorcerer" category. Filling missing holes in feats could be good, but a certain amount of trimming would be nice to prevent massive rules bloat. Psionics would also be a good topic as long as they were sufficiently different from "normal" magic and introduced new roles (I don't want a psion that's pretty much like having a mage in the party except they use their mind). Maybe psions are where they need to place the new "gish" class that everybody's been begging for. The Stronghold guide I've mentioned is a prime example of completely new material that fills an empty hole in the game, as would a traps guide, or even the environment guides.
I don't think these differentiations are easy, and I think there's a fine line to toe (which is why I don't claim to be a game designer or work for a company that has to make these decisions). I just hope that they don't fall into the pitfall of making a ton of new uses for skills, PrCs, and feats over and over again to the point that the book construction is basically wrote (like the splatbooks became for 3.5).
That's not a result of having a lot of rulebooks, that's a result of a company not properly handling the fact they have a lot of rulebooks. It's like saying the concept of cars is flawed because one company didn't put seat belts in theirs.
I have yet to see a company "properly handle" bloat. That isn't to say it can't be done (though I have my doubts), just that bloat has negatively impacted numerous previous game lines. Is it really surprising people are concerned it may happen again?
Put another vote firmly in the "no bloat" category.
Lest I appear as the "party of no," here is what I would like to see:
Continued production of rules elements that can truly be ignored if desired. For example, additional Bestiary volumes.
A "basic" rulebook, with the first few levels, combat rules, etc., to hook in new players. Inexpensive, so I could give a copy to everyone in a group without breaking the bank. "Gateway" drug. ;-)
...and that's about it. If I truly had my way, Paizo would then use the PFRPG as a stable base for continuing to publish adventures and setting materials. Of course, both those products would have a smattering of crunch (new monsters, new PRCs, etc.), but that's it.
Lest I appear as the "party of no
If it makes you feel better, I really wouldn't want to see any further crunch beyond the Gamemastery Book and the APG. Anything more really would be rules bloat by my definition.
I view psionics as something that is completely modular and can be dropped in or left entirely out by taste.
And my vision of Epic rules would be practically a new game, where characters would be converted over from PFRPG. That wouldn't be a popular idea with some, I realize.
CEO
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The requests for box sets are a regular recurrence, and as far as I recall, Lisa always says that, as much as she loves them, they're a business disaster and Paizo won't be doing them.
Almost true. I said that unless we figure out a way to do them in a fiscally responsible way, we won't be doing them. Just because we haven't figure out how to do a box set in a way that makes sense doesn't mean that we won't some day. We keep hammering at it and someday, we may find the printer of our dreams! But until then, you won't be seeing boxed sets cause they have horrible financials.
-Lisa
That's not a result of having a lot of rulebooks, that's a result of a company not properly handling the fact they have a lot of rulebooks. It's like saying the concept of cars is flawed because one company didn't put seat belts in theirs.I have yet to see a company "properly handle" bloat. That isn't to say it can't be done (though I have my doubts), just that bloat has negatively impacted numerous previous game lines. Is it really surprising people are concerned it may happen again?
Put another vote firmly in the "no bloat" category.
I never said Paizo should make extra rulebooks, just that people do like them, that they're not inherently evil(neither the rulebooks or the people who like them), and that I'm happy that 3PP are out there that can fill that gap.
On topic, I'd like to see a setting book inside the core of the planet, Hollow Earth style (if that hasn't been mentioned yet...)
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CEO
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If Paizo make rulebooks they make less of the other stuff. That's not a bad reason to try to persuade them to avoid product lines you dont like.
Not true. We have not cut back a single product line to make way for the PFRPG books. They are totally separate in my mind. If there is too much to do, then we will staff up to meet that need. The only thing that can cause us to cut back on a line are sales that don't meet our needs. Basically, the pocket books of our customers are a great indicator about whether we are doing the right things or the wrong things. So far, the pocket books like what we are doing! :)
-Lisa
The East, please.
I'm not sure who made the choice to make the Pathfinder Chronicles map portrait rather than landscape, but it gives me the overwhelming urge to own a second portrait map detailing the Eastern half of the continent.
From what I've seen, Paizo will make the least cheesy "Oriental" sourcebook in the history of RPGs. I want Casmaron and I want the map to line up with my PCCS map!
Epic.
As a GM that has run multiple games in the same campaign for the last 20 or so years, Epic rules are a must.
When WotC did their Epic stuff they totally dropped the ball - on two counts IMHO. First they released the god book around the same time and it didn't incorporate hardly anything from the ELH and secondly, there was clearly far less playtest on the actual ELH.
We don't need whole new mechanics for epic spells - just extend the natural progressions and mechanical relationships already established with the core game into logical extensions of the same.
There is no reason there couldn't be 10th 11th or 12th level spells - in fact the guidelins for what such levels spells do - and where their 'power caps' would logically be - are already in the game. Apply various meta feats to existing high-level spells as a guide and go from there.
A really good Epic book doesn't need to be huge, though one the size of the CR is certainly possible. Especially if you do an all inclusive approach that features monsters, treasure, et al. If, however, you choose to include monsters do be ridiculous. Again, in the 3.0 ELH the bulk of the monsters were largely unusable - they were mostly TOO epic.
As someone that ran an actual 3.0/3.5 campaign that progressed naturally to 37th level PCs what I found myself wanting again and again was challenges for that level of character. Not even entirely new monsters mind you; I could have very much done with a 64 pager or thereabouts book of epic monsters that were base monsters with Class Levels and templates applied so as to make them epic challenges.
Certainly I could have done this myself, and in fact I did, but I would have GLADLY paid someone else to do it instead and used all that time to do other things.
I definitely think there would be a market for well thought out Epic rules - probably in the neighbor hood of 25-30% of that of the Core Rulebook. Obviously not every campaign goes epic - the kind of time, dedication, and resources required to run and play in such a behemoth is VERY taxing, and frankly, just not everyones' bag of tea.
Personally speaking, my campaign that I ran began in November of 2000 and ended the summer of 2005. We played - on average - about 25 to 30 sessions each year that lasted anywhere from 6 to 12 hours each. All told, I am sure I spent AT LEAST 1000 hours over the course of that campaign just in planning alone - so yeah, I would have dropped $40 - $60 in a HEARTBEAT if it meant I could have saved some time.
Since Pathfinder is a superior game, I would gladly do so this time around as well. It has been close to five years since that campaign ended and I am looking to begin its sequel sometime next year - it would be nice to have some rules to go with it!
Thanks all.
Almost true. I said that unless we figure out a way to do them in a fiscally responsible way, we won't be doing them. Just because we haven't figure out how to do a box set in a way that makes sense doesn't mean that we won't some day. We keep hammering at it and someday, we may find the printer of our dreams! But until then, you won't be seeing boxed sets cause they have horrible financials.-Lisa
Sweat shops/slave labor. ;-)
Not true. We have not cut back a single product line to make way for the PFRPG books. They are totally separate in my mind. If there is too much to do, then we will staff up to meet that need. The only thing that can cause us to cut back on a line are sales that don't meet our needs. Basically, the pocket books of our customers are a great indicator about whether we are doing the right things or the wrong things. So far, the pocket books like what we are doing! :)
-Lisa
I think he was talking about opportunity cost. Absent the elmination of scarcity, everything we do (or produce) has an opportunity cost. So while it may be true that you can grow for the forseeable future, every dollar that you spend on product X remains a dollar you didn't spend on product Y. Or Z, if you staff up to make Y.
Getting around that would require rewriting the rules of economics. Don't misunderstand, Lisa: I hold you in high regard...but not that high. ;-)
Spell Compendium Book: With compiled spells from APs and Modules, as well as new spells.
Magic Item Compendium: Items from APs and Modules, as well as new items.
Psionics Book
Far Eastern style book: Samurai, Ninjas etc.
An Adventure Path designed around Survival Horror (Zombie Apolocalypse).
...An Adventure Path designed around Survival Horror (Zombie Apolocalypse).
While that probably isn't really a part of the Pathfinder RPG line in the way the question was originally intended, it's still an awesome idea. :)
I would like to see expansion of rage powers, rogue talents, spells, foci, orders, etc etc to keep the options going
Maybe a periodic volume compiling that stuff and PrCs and spells that brought out over the APs and what not
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I'd like o see a small series of softcovers that delt with things that often go on "off stage"
A book for PC shopping, like a Arms and Equipment guide. I like the one I have from WOTC, but its really for 3.0 and I'd like a Pathfinder update to the concept. It should cover the gear, exotic and mundane that adventures use. Perhaps a "Pathfinder Society Guide to Gear." Some fluff writen from the Society's point of view on recommended gear in sidebars and lots of crunch on gear.
A book on like the Stronghold Builders Guide might be nice. I found the original book a little unwieldy. I would like the guide to be more like the information found in the first adventure path.
"A Pathfinder Society Guide to Travel" would be nice too. Something about getting from point A to B, mundane to exotic. Perhaps a guide to certain inns and oasis's that are along the way, and concepts for what happens in those places, gambling, expanded info in staying, at those places. This would be about a 50%/50% on fluff/crunch.
I might be the only one who likes this stuff. But I like stuff that kinda fills in the picture. I don't need the whole picture filled out, but I'd like some stuff started for me.
Epic.
As a GM that has run multiple games in the same campaign for the last 20 or so years, Epic rules are a must.
Hear, hear! :)
There is no reason there couldn't be 10th 11th or 12th level spells - in fact the guidelins for what such levels spells do - and where their 'power caps' would logically be - are already in the game. Apply various meta feats to existing high-level spells as a guide and go from there.
And the Pathfinder core rules does just that, which is awesome - they have only two pages of epic rules "suggestions" but they're already superior to the ELH in terms of magic.
As someone that ran an actual 3.0/3.5 campaign that progressed naturally to 37th level PCs what I found myself wanting again and again was challenges for that level of character. Not even entirely new monsters mind you; I could have very much done with a 64 pager or thereabouts book of epic monsters that were base monsters with Class Levels and templates applied so as to make them epic challenges.
That's exactly it, and it's the same for me. I enjoy it far more taking something ordinary and turning it into something interesting using templates and class levels.
I definitely think there would be a market for well thought out Epic rules - probably in the neighborhood of 25-30% of that of the Core Rulebook. Obviously not every campaign goes epic - the kind of time, dedication, and resources required to run and...
I also think there's definitely a market for an Epic book. True also for additional Bestiaries. Oriental/Far East is popular (with everyone but me, it seems :) as is Psionics. What I'd also like to see more of (I've seen it mentioned elsewhere) is alternative class features like a lot of the later WoTC splat books had.
One book I've always wanted was a book on city and town building. Now, many villages and places are throwaways, but every so often I need to build a settlement, and Cityscape and that section of the DMG just didn't cut it in terms of defining what should be in a town.
It would be cool to have a sourcebook that could be used as a framework for building towns and cities. It's okay if it has examples, but those examples should be a result of using the framework, not just some designer showing off their creative skills.
The setting is just two years old. It is still springtime fresh.
Springtime fresh?
*sniffs the air intently*
No, no... that's French vanilla with a hint of mulberry and almonds.
The requests for box sets are a regular recurrence, and as far as I recall, Lisa always says that, as much as she loves them, they're a business disaster and Paizo won't be doing them.Almost true. I said that unless we figure out a way to do them in a fiscally responsible way, we won't be doing them. Just because we haven't figure out how to do a box set in a way that makes sense doesn't mean that we won't some day. We keep hammering at it and someday, we may find the printer of our dreams! But until then, you won't be seeing boxed sets cause they have horrible financials.
-Lisa
Sorry, didn't mean to misquote you, Lisa!
If Paizo make rulebooks they make less of the other stuff. That's not a bad reason to try to persuade them to avoid product lines you dont like.Not true. We have not cut back a single product line to make way for the PFRPG books. They are totally separate in my mind. If there is too much to do, then we will staff up to meet that need. The only thing that can cause us to cut back on a line are sales that don't meet our needs. Basically, the pocket books of our customers are a great indicator about whether we are doing the right things or the wrong things. So far, the pocket books like what we are doing! :)
-Lisa
Err...of course it's true - perhaps I didnt say it well. You don't have unlimited resources so you can't do infinite things. If I want you to make lots and lots of "Product A" and dont care about "Product B" I have a legitimate reason to try to persuade you to only make A.
I didnt mean that you have cut back on some things to make way for the RPG. Nor was I suggesting that it might not be in your interests to broaden the product lines you offer (in fact I'm a big fan of you doing precisely that). However it is an economic fact that by doing the RPG line your ability to devote resources to the other lines is curtailed and this is a perfectly fine reason for someone to try to persuade you not to do the new stuff. (New rules -> delays in releases of other stuff, for example).
EDIT: I am implicitly assuming that the grumbling customer in question is not concerned with your profitability or long-term survival of the company - he wants his shiny new product A NOW. Perhaps shortsighted, but not atypical of your average consumer.
I think he was talking about opportunity cost. Absent the elmination of scarcity, everything we do (or produce) has an opportunity cost. So while it may be true that you can grow for the forseeable future, every dollar that you spend on product X remains a dollar you didn't spend on product Y. Or Z, if you staff up to make Y.Not true. We have not cut back a single product line to make way for the PFRPG books. They are totally separate in my mind. If there is too much to do, then we will staff up to meet that need. The only thing that can cause us to cut back on a line are sales that don't meet our needs. Basically, the pocket books of our customers are a great indicator about whether we are doing the right things or the wrong things. So far, the pocket books like what we are doing! :)
-Lisa
Yes - just not very well.
A Book of Monster Templates, like Advanced Bestiary, That is still one of my all time favorite books.
Bipedal Rust Monster! Super Fun!!!
EDIT: I am implicitly assuming that the grumbling customer in question is not concerned with your profitability or long-term survival of the company - he wants his shiny new product A NOW. Perhaps
shortsighted, but not atypical of your average consumer.
That being said, I know that Paizo is against this type of bloat, so I'm not expecting them to contribute to it. Which is why I'm happy there's Pathfinder compatible products.
and
I never said Paizo should make extra rulebooks, just that people do like them, that they're not inherently evil(neither the rulebooks or the people who like them), and that I'm happy that 3PP are out there that can fill that gap.
It's a little frustrating to explicitly say, more then once, that I even though I like rulebooks, don't think Paizo should be producing a ton of ton only to read that I'm grumbling when giving an opinion that was asked by the OP and that I want the company to fail. [Insert a lot of swear words here]
If that wasn't directed towards me then... well.. um... Hi?
Regional books akin to FR's Silver Marches et al. I'd be primarily interested in fluff supported by a bit of crunch instead of the other way around -- each book might have one to three prestige classes and maybe five to 10 feats, plus a smattering of traits, but other than that, all fluff. Golarion In Motion. Take Golarion, and subject it to some hugely cataclysmic event -- volcanic eruption, death of a god, worldwide floods, gates opening to the Abyss left and right, or whatever else. How would it change the face of the world? I would -love- to see a series of books that describe how the world might change with any given catastrophe.[/list] I'll add more if I think of them.
Please please please please puh-leeeeeez do not go into too much detail when it comes to Golarion. In my opinion overexposure is what killed the Forgotten Realms (for me and many I know.)
FR started out AWESOME, with a couple of sections of the world done up in great detail, a few others less so, and a vast expanse of the world that was simply given a few small blurbs here and there, with perhaps a few (not necessarily factual) historical details for some very large general regions.
It was great for having all kinds of spots where you could drop your own little homebrewed setting and eventually tie it in with some of the printed materials.
But then the novels, the splatbooks, the region books, the canon this and official that...
If you took a huge map of the realms and colored in the parts that were initially shown in great detail, it would look like a wall mural with a few spots here and there of color. But slowly all those formless grey areas were colored in FOR us, and you couldn't set an adventure in the realms without running into problems with "canon storyline" or set an adventure in an area where there wasn't a fully fleshed out epic-level npc of some sort that your PCs were just dying to go find so that the NPS can solve all of their problems.
I actually had a glimmer of hope for 4e FR when they discussed the whole "points of light" philosophy, but then I read a few of their printed materials and realized that WotC had just hit a sort of "soft reset button" so that they could slowly pimp out pieces of the same world all over again.
TL;DR - please don't fill in all of the blanks when it comes to Golarion, as I am really enjoying the mystery of it all once again.
I would like to see the following:
1. An rulebook for epic progression. If anything to see how PF would handle it.
2. A Psionics book.
3. A Tech book
4. An updated PF Chronicles Campaign book using current rules
5. An oriental/alternate fantasy setting book
Regional books akin to FR's Silver Marches et al. I'd be primarily interested in fluff supported by a bit of crunch instead of the other way around -- each book might have one to three prestige classes and maybe five to 10 feats, plus a smattering of traits, but other than that, all fluff. Golarion In Motion. Take Golarion, and subject it to some hugely cataclysmic event -- volcanic eruption, death of a god, worldwide floods, gates opening to the Abyss left and right, or whatever else. How would it change the face of the world? I would -love- to see a series of books that describe how the world might change with any given catastrophe.[/list] I'll add more if I think of them.
Please please please please puh-leeeeeez do not go into too much detail when it comes to Golarion. In my opinion overexposure is what killed the Forgotten Realms (for me and many I know.)
FR started out AWESOME, with a couple of sections of the world done up in great detail, a few others less so, and a vast expanse of the world that was simply given a few small blurbs here and there, with perhaps a few (not necessarily factual) historical details for some very large general regions.
It was great for having all kinds of spots where you could drop your own little homebrewed setting and eventually tie it in with some of the printed materials.
But then the novels, the splatbooks, the region books, the canon this and official that...
If you took a huge map of the realms and colored in the parts that were initially shown in great detail, it would look like a wall mural with a few spots here and there of color. But slowly all those formless grey areas were colored in FOR us, and you couldn't set an adventure in the realms without running into problems with "canon storyline" or set an adventure in an area where there wasn't a fully fleshed out epic-level npc of some sort that your PCs were just dying to go find so that the NPS can solve all of their problems.
I actually had a glimmer of...
I don't think anyone would care if you used "official canon" or not. I never did and my players don't seem to mind. As a matter of fact, my version of the Forgotten Realms is way different than what is supposed to be "canon".
EDIT: I am implicitly assuming that the grumbling customer in question is not concerned with your profitability or long-term survival of the company - he wants his shiny new product A NOW. Perhaps
shortsighted, but not atypical of your average consumer.** spoiler omitted **
It wasnt directed at anyone, it was a general comment. Regardless of where you sit on the issue, my only point was that it is reasonable for those who dont like one or more of Paizo's product lines to lobby the company to discontinue the undesirable line and devote resources to something the customer prefers.
Apologies for the confusion the "grumbling customer" was purely a hypothetical person.
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **** spoiler omitted **
As for Paizo's success - I'm with you 100%. I want them to make bags of money so they can expand and sell me even more great stuff. I was merely addressing those who say "Just dont buy a supplement if you dont like it." and pointing out that a naysayer has a legitimate reason for expressing their view.
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Actually something I'd like to see before the APG would be a Quick Start PDF/booklet that we could use to help introduce new players.
I'll also vote for a Basic Book maybe along the lines of what Kenzer did to prepare for the new Hackmaster. As mentioned above only five levels and to help keep it lite only the core four classes. Then include a short spell list for the cleric and mage, a standard adventure equipment list for each class to start with, and about 20-30 monsters that could be thrown at 1-5th. Finish the book off with a brief adventure to wet the appetite and a recommendation list of products that will appeal to new players and judges besides the obvious Core Rulebook and Bestiary plug.
A pocket edition would be nice to see. Makes carrying the corebook for players traveling long distances not have to worry about lugging an extremely huge amount of weight. If they can do it with Spycraft 2.0 I'm sure it could be done with Pathfinder.
Spell Compendium Book: With compiled spells from APs and Modules, as well as new spells.
Please only if it isn't an abomination like the D&D Spell Compendium where most of the spells are clearly above the power level of the core rules spells. Or disguising evocation spells as conjuration so they can bypass spell resistance and make golems a joke.
Magic Item Compendium: Items from APs and Modules, as well as new items.
Could be interesting, but only if it does not bring power creep.
Psionics Book
I'd like that, but only if psionics is mechanically very different from from magic and it manages to work so normal parties or villainous setups which do not include psionicists are not completely helpless against a single psionicist. Alo the flavor needs to be done so it doesn't appear as just another sort of magic.
Far Eastern style book: Samurai, Ninjas etc.
Please no rule book for this. I'm OK with a Chronicles book for Tian Xia, maybe with alternate class feature, even though the setting doesn't really interest me at all. But there really is no need for a rule book. Samurais can be done as fighters, ninjas as rogues, using new feats and alternate class features. No need for extra classes just because the pseudo-asian stuff is supposedly extra "cool".
An Adventure Path designed around Survival Horror (Zombie Apolocalypse).
God, no! I'm fed up with the ubiquitous zombie apocalypse crap currently flooding all aspects of popular culture. It's been done to death already please stop it!
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The requests for box sets are a regular recurrence, and as far as I recall, Lisa always says that, as much as she loves them, they're a business disaster and Paizo won't be doing them.Almost true. I said that unless we figure out a way to do them in a fiscally responsible way, we won't be doing them. Just because we haven't figure out how to do a box set in a way that makes sense doesn't mean that we won't some day. We keep hammering at it and someday, we may find the printer of our dreams! But until then, you won't be seeing boxed sets cause they have horrible financials.
Random idea : Would a shrink-wrapped cardboard slip-case containing two softcover books (one PC, one GM) and a bunch of maps / pamphlets in between be a cheaper way of achieving boxed-set-style loveliness?
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My Personal Favorate Splat Books from Wizards are the environment series and the Creature Type Series.
I think Paizo could produce a nice set of Golarion Specific and Generic information to fill a single book for each creature type. breaking down the influence and additional DM options relevant to each area of the campaign world while leaving the crunch and major fluff open for all.
On the environment series Wizards books where very informative but I think combined with a dedicated Map pack Paizo could produce a golarion specific environment series of books detailing various areas of the world. for example a single book explaining the trappings of running a forest based adventure with confined rules and tables in an easy to reference format followed by a chapters detailing all the major forests and woods throughout golorian with specific plants, hazards and creatures for them with a matching forest thremed map pack.
In order of desire:
Psionics (SRD + improvements, not a brand new system)
Epic (a little SRD, a lot of new content and improvements, remove a lot of bad rules)
World Building (Economics, Terrain, Cities, Trade Routes, and all the stuff needed to make a world feel more real... and provide a viable alternative to the standard gold system, as it removes all the regular people stuff that characters have to worry about, and with it many of the interesting interactions that come with such concerns)
Divine (Viable alternatives to the basic SRD assumption that arcane and divine are mostly the same thing. Mechanics that make Divine its own unique thing, and a mechanic that limits spell selection somewhat for divine casters, such as "prayers known" or "rare spells/hidden lore" that prevents them from picking any spell ever published every morning when they wake up)
Tech (Various technology level differences. Should also deal with monetary systems for different societies, and characters acclimating themselves to more/less advanced tech)
Past that, I'd like to see expansion on the basics: new bestiaries, expansion books for class types, cool traps/puzzles to plug into games, and so on.
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Important: As a community of Paizonians - call us fans, supporters, consumers, etc., its important to be self-regulating.
Ask not what Paizo can do for you, ask what you can do for PAIZO.
Funny, but true.
In MUSIC > We call it "sell-out" when a band like R.E.M took their underground sound and went mainstream on Monster. The art of the music is compromised by the public demand for mainstream washout (stuff that sounds like other stuff). The artists get pressured by producers to make stuff that sells, and consumers are asking for the same stuff because they're not artists, and can't "demand" innovation they have not heard. Its a viscious cycle that creates a mediocracy of music. Just listen to this past AMA Awards show, and see if you can tell anyone apart?
In LITERATURE/PRINT/GAMING MATERIALS > The folks at Paizo have been around the block. They understand how a company like the wotci would compromise the art, innovation, creativity by replacing it with stuff that they think kids want. The result is 4e, or any one of the type of compromises that COULD turn the good dark stories of Jacobs into mainstream splat. (I said "could".) This means as consumers, we must think about what we really love about PAIZO, and be requesting more of THAT. The consequences of just requesting the same stuff you've already seen CAN drive a company to the extreme middle, where innovation is replaced with Book of Rehash Volume II, Book of Rehash Volume III, etc.
Here's the thing: I respect all the posts in this thread. Psionics is kinda cool, and if anyone can do psionics right its probably Mona/Jacobs/Bulmahn et. al.
I also respect those who like the stuff I don't. I appreciate that we all enjoy different aspects of the game. Gamers are not all the same, they shouldn't be - we're generally bright creative independent minded folk. Yet, a decade of "consumerism" has altered some of our better senses (myself included). Let's have a look at what Paizo has been doing, consider their suggested direction, try to see how as a group of brilliant writers they don't WANT to produce Book of Unnecessary Things Volume IV, V, and VII. That is, .... unless we as cosumers leave them with no alternative. The reality is, when it says, "Its Your Game Now" on Pathfinder RPG materials - - - it means something. Lets think about, and be vocal about more than just "more of the same". Let's consider what is best for Pathfinder RPG and our community, without surrendering to a low common deominator of book writing. Wouldn't it be best if the Advanced Players Guide had most all the stuff you need/want?
Just some thoughts, and to be clear, I value everyone's views, even different from my own. Just had to get that out.... thanks for listening.
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I'd like to see that. Do you mind sharing / distributing?I have to agree with most of this. In fact, over the past 2 years i sat down with 6 friends and wrote a technology book for pathfinder (not kidding either). Its divided into 5 era's
1 - dark ages/classic fantasy
2 - Victorian/steam punk
3 - modern/contemporary
4 - near future/cyberpunk
5 - far future/space operawith that 168 page pdf, i have no need for a pre-planed adventure or campaign specific guide ever...
maybe...but no promises only because most of the artwork i use through out is not my own. so for legal issues i legally am not allowed to distribute this past family and friends...however, if i were to remove all of the legal aspects of the system i might be able to get away with it. Again, no promises.
Please, please, please, can we have a year for once without any more big books? Not because of bloat (because when I play I tend to GM and will simply fiat out books with material which I do not) but because I am thoroughly fed up with seeing the dates of products getting pushed further and further back as the quantity of pages in books scheduled for release yet again exceeds the capacity of the editors to get out quality products on time. The bestiary date went back, the date on some products due out this month has gone back yet again - to January, I gather - and I live in the UK so it takes even longer than the official release date for most things to get to shop shelves on top of that.
If Paizo absolutely have to put something other than the Chronicles and Pathfinder Lines out, because their Lawful Evil pact with their bank manager requires it to service the debts on the secret underwater missile base that Nicolas Logue commissioned during his short time on the staff, then what about 128 page something or other to support Pathfinder Society organised play, as part of a year where you make a big push to get that more formalised? (On the non publishing side, Paizo could officially sort out those regional organisers that occasionally get mentioned by Mr. Frost, make regular trips around the US and overseas to game with their customers, put free Valeros and Merisiel figures in cereal packets as part of a marketing campaign, etc...)
I have to disagree with you entirely here. I love the fact that instead of 50, 128 page books (not exaggerating) filled with crap, filler, little editing, and no playtesting value, they are instead releasing 2 to 3 large books with quality, edited, playtested product. This i stand 100% behind. If you want what you mentioned above...see Wizards of the Coast. If you want quality, see Paizo's Pathfinder RPG line.
Important: As a community of Paizonians - call us fans, supporters, consumers, etc., its important to be self-regulating.
Ask not what Paizo can do for you, ask what you can do for PAIZO.
Funny, but true.
In MUSIC > We call it "sell-out" when a band like R.E.M took their underground sound and went mainstream on Monster. The art of the music is compromised by the public demand for mainstream washout (stuff that sounds like other stuff). The artists get pressured by producers to make stuff that sells, and consumers are asking for the same stuff because they're not artists, and can't "demand" innovation they have not heard. Its a viscious cycle that creates a mediocracy of music. Just listen to this past AMA Awards show, and see if you can tell anyone apart?
In LITERATURE/PRINT/GAMING MATERIALS > The folks at Paizo have been around the block. They understand how a company like the wotci would compromise the art, innovation, creativity by replacing it with stuff that they think kids want. The result is 4e, or any one of the type of compromises that COULD turn the good dark stories of Jacobs into mainstream splat. (I said "could".) This means as consumers, we must think about what we really love about PAIZO, and be requesting more of THAT. The consequences of just requesting the same stuff you've already seen CAN drive a company to the extreme middle, where innovation is replaced with Book of Rehash Volume II, Book of Rehash Volume III, etc.
Here's the thing: I respect all the posts in this thread. Psionics is kinda cool, and if anyone can do psionics right its probably Mona/Jacobs/Bulmahn et. al.
I also respect those who like the stuff I don't. I appreciate that we all enjoy different aspects of the game. Gamers are not all the same, they shouldn't be - we're generally bright creative independent minded folk. Yet, a decade of "consumerism" has altered some of our better senses (myself included). Let's have a look at what Paizo has been doing, consider their suggested direction, try to see how...
Very, Very well said, thank you...
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Important: As a community of Paizonians - call us fans, supporters, consumers, etc., its important to be self-regulating.
Ask not what Paizo can do for you, ask what you can do for PAIZO.
The consequences of just requesting the same stuff you've already seen CAN drive a company to the extreme middle, where innovation is replaced with Book of Rehash Volume II, Book of Rehash Volume III, etc.
...
The reality is, when it says, "Its Your Game Now" on Pathfinder RPG materials - - - it means something. Lets think about, and be vocal about more than just "more of the same".
You make some very good points, Pax.
Some of the books that I've loved the most in the past have been the ones that allowed me to make my game better - more real. Most of the Volo stuff from FR, especially All Things Magical, Auroras Catalogue, Power of Faerun - all of the books that are neither crunch nor fluff but which set up some details of the world that you can use to base an adventure around.
A book of tricks on how to make the world seem more real, how to get inside the heads of your players (and mess with them), how to make your NPCs live, could be one of the things that Paizo are best suited to write.
...
All I am saying...
Is give PAX a chance...;)