Aura of justice clarification

[Abciximab]

We're switching some of our 3.5 campaign to pathfinder and our paladin in the group really likes the pathfinder abilities.

Do the recipients of the Aura of Justice retain the smite abilities if they go more than 10 feet away from the Paladin?

Does the paladin also gain the ability to smite from Aura of Justice or just her allies? Does she need to expend another smite for herself.

[The Grandfather]

Abciximab wrote:

Do the recipients of the Aura of Justice retain the smite abilities if they go more than 10 feet away from the Paladin?

The smite must be activated within 10 feet of the paladin, but the effect remains if the character subsequently moves beyond 10 feet.

Abciximab wrote:

Does the paladin also gain the ability to smite from Aura of Justice or just her allies? Does she need to expend another smite for herself.

The aura only affects allies. On the following round the paladin must spend one more smite to be able to smite.

[Abciximab]

The Grandfather wrote:

The aura only affects allies. On the following round the paladin must spend one more smite to be able to smite.

That's about what I expected. Using Aura of Justince is a Free Action though, so they could still gain a use of Smite Evil (A Swift Action) themselves on the same round. I just wanted to make sure they would actually have to expend another use for themselves.

[Abraham spalding]

Though truthfully at the point I give everyone else in the group the ability to smite evil, I'm probably going to stand back for a round and smile smugly... even if it's just so everyone can use their rings of evasion at the same time as the enemy lich casts Maximized Cone of Cold at the close standing group.

[Zonthas86]

Abciximab wrote:

The Grandfather wrote:

The aura only affects allies. On the following round the paladin must spend one more smite to be able to smite.

That's about what I expected. Using Aura of Justince is a Free Action though, so they could still gain a use of Smite Evil (A Swift Action) themselves on the same round. I just wanted to make sure they would actually have to expend another use for themselves.

Sorry about reviving an old thread but this has recently come up in my game. The FAQs state that you count as your own ally unless it is impossible/doesn't make sense. With this logic, wouldn't Aura of Justice affect the Paladin (as he would count as his own ally) and allow him to essentially gain a smite without using a third use of smite evil?

[Cavall]

I agree with you on this. I believe youd count as your own ally but your smite would be modified to be a minute as others are. This doesnt seem to be an "impossible" situation such as counting as your own teammate for teamwork feats.

[Zonthas86]

Cavall wrote:

I agree with you on this. I believe youd count as your own ally but your smite would be modified to be a minute as others are. This doesnt seem to be an "impossible" situation such as counting as your own teammate for teamwork feats.

However, would it fall under the "doesn't make sense" clause? I understand that a lot of that would be up to DM ruling but I've read so many different ideas on forums. Can the paladin grant themselves the ability to smite when they already have the ability to smite?

[Cavall]

Why not? You're one of "all allies" and you're putting on a restriction of one minute over your usual smite. For double the cost of doing it yourself.

I dont see how it doesnt make sense or is impossible.

[MrCharisma]

Yeah I've never seen anyone rule that you don't get the benefit of AoJ. It's a team buff, it costs two smites and lasts 1 minute (instead of forever). It'd be pretty bad if you didn't gain the benefits.

[blahpers]

Makes perfect sense.

Then again, by the wording, Gang Up ought to work with only two combatants threatening a third, but I've never seen anybody treat it that way.

[Zonthas86]

This is why I asked. The posts earlier in this thread disagree and say that the Paladin does not get the benefit of AoJ. I've seen multiple threads arguing each way.

[MrCharisma]

I think the intent of Gang Up is fairly obvious.

Considering nearly everyone uses Gang Up the same way (2 allies plus yourself), and nearly everyine uses AoJ the same way (allies including yourself) I feel like the way they've written it is fine.

Occasionally you'll get people needing clarification (eg. this thread) but for the most part it's well understood.

[MrCharisma]

Zonthas86 wrote:

This is why I asked. The posts earlier in this thread disagree and say that the Paladin does not get the benefit of AoJ. I've seen multiple threads arguing each way.

For me the real kicker as to why I think AoJ works on yourself is that it's a free action. If they intended to not have it work for the Paladin they could have made it a swift action (like smite evil), thus denying the paladin the ability to make use of it (allies must use their swift action to target their smite). But since it's a free action the paladin can activate AoJ (free action) then use their group-buff-smite (swift action) perfectly fine.

[Cavall]

Which is perfectly sensible. Of course you should be able to use you're own smite of you're part of it.

I also think gang up is pretty clear too. Most of those feats would say "you and another ally" not "2 of your allies" if it meant you.

All part of that "is it impossible and does it make sense" thing.

I agree with Mr charisma I've never had anyone read either power otherwise.

For the OP the original al posters were 11 years ago and may not have been able to call upon the FAQ you did. At the time it seemed a reasonable answer. But then again only 2 people answered then.