Are dragons overrated?


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Dark Archive

There just aren't enough parties like anymore.


Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
Patrick Curtin wrote:
I think the pony has pretty much neighed my point for me ...
Agreed. Anything more would just be riding your hobby-horse or beating a dead one. I appreciate that you can bridle yourself and know when to say whoa. The point is definitely saddled. Nothing left here to spur you on.

Leaf it to you to come up with some wooden puns Mair-man.


David Fryer wrote:
There just aren't enough parties like anymore.

That dude's name is Dungeon Master. How unusual.

Is that german? Slavic?

Liberty's Edge

WTF was wrong with 30 Days of Night, other than the city had too many damn white people and no Native Americans?

Skankirella gets teh growlites upsite her head; and all her ole man can say it, "that which can be broken.....SHOULD be broken...."
That dude was dope.

Liberty's Edge

And I know I'm agreen with zombieneigbhors, but it's only semantics;
he just likes the movie cos the Alpha Vamp looked up and said, ".....no God....."

Liberty's Edge

Sebastian wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

Wow. That was close. I thought for a terrible second that someone was badmouthing Alien. If that were the case, I'm afraid I would have had to lock down this thread and ban a lot of people. And then I'd burn down all of the copies of Pathfinder #28 in punishment and protest and move to Alaska to live life as a misanthropic hermit.

Close call, is all I'm saying. Whew.

No one would say that.

Now Aliens, that's another story. I think we can all agree that movie is terrible and completely ruined the Alien mythos.

Edit: Why are the words "BANNED FOR LIFE" suddenly on my screen with a timer counting down?

Oh. Your joking.

Don't scare me.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Getting to what I find overdone... hokey uplifting, humanocentricism.

For the most part I only find humanocentric worlds overdone when they're smug about it.

Yes, I know, the classic rebuttal is "Being human, of course the author wants to portray humans in the best light."

My brain always mutters, "Being human, the author should know us better."

Then, someone says, "Authors do know us better. They know that's what humans want to hear."

And then, my brain adds, "Authors are liars." and goes off to sulk a bit.


+1


Heathansson wrote:

And I know I'm agreen with zombieneigbhors, but it's only semantics;

he just likes the movie cos the Alpha Vamp looked up and said, ".....no God....."

Yes, clearly i like the film because it has atheist vampires...clearly... *Rolls eyes.*


I am not tired of dragons as long as they are played properly. I have been in campaigns in which we had some really good fights with a dragon. And in others, they were just fire breathing Komodo Dragons - not so fun. Each dragon has their own tactics that they deploy. For example, unless the prey is very weak, a red dragon will always breathe while in the air and will do this several times before landing to finish off the kill. Silver dragons like to reverse gravity on their foes and pick them off as they ascend or release the spell and watch the foe plummet to the ground.

The Dragon is the flagship of fantasy while a robot, star ship, or a dude in a cool suit is the flagship for Sci-Fi.

Silver Crusade

Crimson Jester wrote:
Sharoth wrote:
taig wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Sharoth wrote:


PLEEEAAAAASSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE?!?!?!?!?

~grins~ Would it help knowing that I will be there too?

It would help me make a final decision, that's for sure.

Seriously though, will you be there? It would influence my travel plans in a positive way...

I'll be there.

<Now that Sebastian is sure to avoid PaizoCon, step one in ruining Sharoth's life is complete. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!>

(Good thing no one can read the stuff in the <>)

WAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! Thanks tiag! Now he will never go to PaizoCon 2010 !!!

~grins~

Now I will have to make sure I actually save some money to go. If Sharoth can't play the Kender White Ncromancer ~ Can I?

I'll go if I can play a dual-wielding drow ranger name Dzzirt.


Set wrote:
Heathansson wrote:

1) Necromancers that aren't evil

2) misunderstood monsters/witches/mystical punk rockers/whathaveyou that aren't really evil after all, just misunderstood.
3) Pagans who eviscerate the evil Christians.

Wow, I don't think I've *ever* seen 1 or 3 in any show, novel or movie, ever. 2 seems pretty common, these days, 'though.

Doctor Orpheus on Venture Brothers is a good Necromancer ;)


Quote:


I'll go if I can play a dual-wielding drow ranger name Dzzirt.

And a sword master named Niefankaz... :-)


Xaaon of Korvosa wrote:
Set wrote:
Heathansson wrote:

1) Necromancers that aren't evil

2) misunderstood monsters/witches/mystical punk rockers/whathaveyou that aren't really evil after all, just misunderstood.
3) Pagans who eviscerate the evil Christians.

Wow, I don't think I've *ever* seen 1 or 3 in any show, novel or movie, ever. 2 seems pretty common, these days, 'though.

Doctor Orpheus on Venture Brothers is a good Necromancer ;)

I DID see #3 in a short story a few years back. It shocked me because that was the ONLY time I ever saw Christian portrayed in a negative light(unfortunately/fortunately it changed about halfway through the story).

Silver Crusade

Anderlorn wrote:
Quote:


I'll go if I can play a dual-wielding drow ranger name Dzzirt.

And a sword master named Niefankaz... :-)

Sounds good, unless I change my mind and play Canon the barbarian.


KA-BOOM!


Dr. Orpeus recently explained that he only uses the term "Necromancer" because it sounds cool :) No joke.


Anderlorn wrote:
The Dragon is the flagship of fantasy

I wonder how this came to be?

Do you think D&D in particular brought dragons to the forefront, or fantasy literature?

How did this trend begin?

Dark Archive

Shadow13.com wrote:
Anderlorn wrote:
The Dragon is the flagship of fantasy

I wonder how this came to be?

Do you think D&D in particular brought dragons to the forefront, or fantasy literature?

How did this trend begin?

Well St. George and the Dragon came out centuries before D&D. This is a great list of dragons in myth and legend.


I think ratings are under-dragoned.


Black dragon ninjas. That's all that needs saying. No one of you will be able to sleep tonight.

Shadow Lodge

KaeYoss wrote:
Black dragon ninjas. That's all that needs saying. No one of you will be able to sleep tonight.

Except the Silver dragon pirates!

Spoiler:
Ninjas are better than pirates!!!


Dragonborn3 wrote:
KaeYoss wrote:
Black dragon ninjas. That's all that needs saying. No one of you will be able to sleep tonight.

Except the Silver dragon pirates!

** spoiler omitted **

Yea!!! We get the "Booty"!!! If you get what I mean!


You know what is overrated? HUMANS!!! Oh! We get bonus skill points, a bonus feat, and +2 to any attribute. We overpopulate the planet and eliminate anything that gets in our way. We can go to the highest level and to Hell with all the older races. Bah! Humans!

Liberty's Edge

Zombieneighbours wrote:
Heathansson wrote:

And I know I'm agreen with zombieneigbhors, but it's only semantics;

he just likes the movie cos the Alpha Vamp looked up and said, ".....no God....."
Yes, clearly i like the film because it has atheist vampires...clearly... *Rolls eyes.*

You know you got a Chris Matthewsian thrill up your leg.


I love the big scalely fellas.
But the problem is not that there over rated but how they have been played.
'It's never the dragon that is the true problem, his just BBEG's second'
'Look it's a big lizard that can fly and breath fire'
'I am the only encounter left to challange the party so for the next few levels your dealing with me guys'

No longer have they been played as the kings of the medevil jungle.
Here is the thing most of them are smart their not just smart they're alien.
An adult dragon has lived through five human generations, has mix feline, reptilian and bat anatomy.
Highly resitant to their environment. (DR, elemental immunity, ecta)
Breaths a some form of harmful element and on top of all of this they are naturally magical.

I'll be damned if anyone can walk into the head of that.

So instead we get lots of stories where they are one of the three above or they just very mundane.
Dragons aren't kings problems.
Kings are dragons problems.

"Oh look a new king took over what has been only 30 years?
Well I guess I better go down there and show them whats what or at least send somebody I am going back to sleep"
But no this isn't how dragons are shown.
"Oh adventures a dragon has made it's nest in my hills and..."
No there just a really big pest problem so you call on the people whom you ussally never deal with.
Pest control guy or adventures one of the two.

Thats the problem plaguing dragons.


Heh. Pretty damn entertaining. Thanks, Caladors.


Shadow13.com wrote:
Anderlorn wrote:
The Dragon is the flagship of fantasy

I wonder how this came to be?

Do you think D&D in particular brought dragons to the forefront, or fantasy literature?

How did this trend begin?

Dragons are archetypal. Every culture I can think of has dragon myths, even the Inuit. There is just something about them that captures the human imagination.

Now if we're talking overdone gaming cliches, how about "humans are the dominant race in the world," for one? In my Wounded Earth campaign, the starting region of the campaign is ruled by dwarves, who essentially hold humans in thrall and treat them like second-class citizens.

Liberty's Edge

Heathansson wrote:

WTF was wrong with 30 Days of Night, other than the city had too many damn white people and no Native Americans?

Skankirella gets teh growlites upsite her head; and all her ole man can say it, "that which can be broken.....SHOULD be broken...."
That dude was dope.

Other than Barrow, Alaska is a pretty big town, not the quiet little village depicted in the movie? Or that vampires just kind of suck? Or, as you mentioned, there are no Native Americans, or that, well, you know, vampires just kind of suck?

Liberty's Edge

REAL vampires rock. Pretty underwear model vampires are suckage.
It's a movie. Who cares if the town wasn't authentic?
The Gators are still gonna kick your ass in.

Liberty's Edge

Heathansson wrote:

REAL vampires rock. Pretty underwear model vampires are suckage.

It's a movie. Who cares if the town wasn't authentic?
The Gators are still gonna kick your ass in.

"Real" vampires? Dude, you're supposed to clean with the Lysol, not inhale the vapors..

And, sorry, Colt will be wearing gator skin boots walking out of the Rose Bowl...

:)


For me it's the gods. Most campings I've seen, either their are these large Polytheistic religions running things, or a handful of pantheons running things. And why do they all seem to get along anyways?

Good vs Evil too. Why cant we have honourable, vs dishonourable? Order vs Chaos?


houstonderek wrote:
Heathansson wrote:

REAL vampires rock. Pretty underwear model vampires are suckage.

It's a movie. Who cares if the town wasn't authentic?
The Gators are still gonna kick your ass in.

"Real" vampires? Dude, you're supposed to clean with the Lysol, not inhale the vapors..

And, sorry, Colt will be wearing gator skin boots walking out of the Rose Bowl...

:)

FIGHT!FIGHT!FIGHT!FIGHT!FIGHT!FIGHT!


Heathansson wrote:
Zombieneighbours wrote:
Heathansson wrote:

And I know I'm agreen with zombieneigbhors, but it's only semantics;

he just likes the movie cos the Alpha Vamp looked up and said, ".....no God....."
Yes, clearly i like the film because it has atheist vampires...clearly... *Rolls eyes.*
You know you got a Chris Matthewsian thrill up your leg.

Sorry cultural differences mean that this comment means as much to me as me putting on a John Humphrys voice and saying 'Get up you lying f%ck so i CAN KICK YOU AGAIN.'* would mean to you :P

*See dylan moran for what english radio news is like in the morning.


Chaotic_Blues wrote:

For me it's the gods. Most campings I've seen, either their are these large Polytheistic religions running things, or a handful of pantheons running things. And why do they all seem to get along anyways?

Good vs Evil too. Why cant we have honourable, vs dishonourable? Order vs Chaos?

My campaigns always end up Law V Chaos...Good v Evil. Pah!

My first ever character was a fighter.
30 years ago.
Everyone around the table said I should use a longsword and shield and wear plate.
I ended up in chain wielding the Boheimian Earspoon.
They thought I was being a jerk and the only comments were about not getting a magical weapon as "that one's not on the tables"
I thought they were jerks for all being one dimensional clones.


Spacelard wrote:


My campaigns always end up Law V Chaos...Good v Evil. Pah!

My first ever character was a fighter.
30 years ago.
Everyone around the table said I should use a longsword and shield and wear plate.
I ended up in chain wielding the Boheimian Earspoon.
They thought I was being a jerk and the only comments were about not getting a magical weapon as "that one's not on the tables"
I thought they were jerks for all being one dimensional clones.

I'm almost afraid to ask, but what is a Boheimian Earspoon?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Polearm of somesort, but the specifics escape me.


Chaotic_Blues wrote:
Spacelard wrote:


My campaigns always end up Law V Chaos...Good v Evil. Pah!

My first ever character was a fighter.
30 years ago.
Everyone around the table said I should use a longsword and shield and wear plate.
I ended up in chain wielding the Boheimian Earspoon.
They thought I was being a jerk and the only comments were about not getting a magical weapon as "that one's not on the tables"
I thought they were jerks for all being one dimensional clones.

I'm almost afraid to ask, but what is a Boheimian Earspoon?

The worlds best polearm ever!

See the optimizers were there from day one! And so were the players who wanted to just be a bit different. I got my magic Earspoon eventually but only after a bit of leaning on the DM!

And I still have his painted white metal figure!

Never be afraid of the question, just be afraid of the answer.


I found a picture of it. Looks wicked.


Zombieneighbours wrote:
*See dylan moran for what english radio news is like in the morning.

He's irish! :p


vagrant-poet wrote:
Zombieneighbours wrote:
*See dylan moran for what english radio news is like in the morning.
He's irish! :p

Watch monster by dylan moran. It will make more sense.


Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
Heh. Pretty damn entertaining. Thanks, Caladors.

Thats cool no problems

Also at Zombieneighbours.
"AND THEN THE JAPANESE FIGHTING SPIDERS CAME DOWN!"

As to dragons being 'cliche' I would say that they are not 'cliche' but rather iconic.
Whats that second D stand for in D&D?
There everything the setting has need for.
Why haven't we invented steam powered anything, well we have bigger, hungerier problems that our great minds are working on.

They are everything you expect from fantasy play.
To my points before modern trope has named 'the Dragon' after what I was talking about.

Dragons are different to fae and unicorns because there on pictures without meaning or substance.
Dragons are primodial, they can almost be lovecraftian in feel.
Wile some other monsters have change signifcantly from there previous incarnations, vampires were little more than semi-intellgent zombies to the aristocratic ones they are today.
Dragons have remained basicly the same.

Something that threatens the kingdom and some one must rise to face it.

In closing, it's a icon not 'cliche'.
it's misused not over rated.


Some say it's also where Caladors got those flaming eyes...


Shadow13.com wrote:

Here's another one:

The protagonist is the last of his/her kind.
An entire race has been pushed to extinction except for this one lone individual? Right...

This survivor usually ends up being...drum roll...the chosen one! (another boorish cliche)

Except when they're the main villain in the campaign! I sort of like that one, actually, because they're naturally just mean and horrible.

Like the... Oh wait. STAR TREK SPOILER.

STAR TREK:
The Romulans in the new Star Trek!

Dark Archive

Except

Spoiler:
with the whole alternate timeline thing, they no longer are the last of their kind.

Liberty's Edge

houstonderek wrote:
Heathansson wrote:

REAL vampires rock. Pretty underwear model vampires are suckage.

It's a movie. Who cares if the town wasn't authentic?
The Gators are still gonna kick your ass in.

"Real" vampires? Dude, you're supposed to clean with the Lysol, not inhale the vapors..

And, sorry, Colt will be wearing gator skin boots walking out of the Rose Bowl...

:)

Tim Tebow will throw Colt McCoy's heart into the sun, causing cell phone service to be interrupted.

Chuck Norris will be in awe, and Tim will throw him his jersey.

Liberty's Edge

Zombieneighbours wrote:
Heathansson wrote:
Zombieneighbours wrote:
Heathansson wrote:

And I know I'm agreen with zombieneigbhors, but it's only semantics;

he just likes the movie cos the Alpha Vamp looked up and said, ".....no God....."
Yes, clearly i like the film because it has atheist vampires...clearly... *Rolls eyes.*
You know you got a Chris Matthewsian thrill up your leg.

Sorry cultural differences mean that this comment means as much to me as me putting on a John Humphrys voice and saying 'Get up you lying f%ck so i CAN KICK YOU AGAIN.'* would mean to you :P

*See dylan moran for what english radio news is like in the morning.

Very well, an attempt at metaphor in the Queense' colloquial then......

I would say you had a thrill up your leg nearly identical to the one that Vyvyan Basterd's roommate Wrick would have upon finding out that Cwiff Wichad was going to sing Wired for Sound at his 21st bethday potty.

Liberty's Edge

Heathansson wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Heathansson wrote:

REAL vampires rock. Pretty underwear model vampires are suckage.

It's a movie. Who cares if the town wasn't authentic?
The Gators are still gonna kick your ass in.

"Real" vampires? Dude, you're supposed to clean with the Lysol, not inhale the vapors..

And, sorry, Colt will be wearing gator skin boots walking out of the Rose Bowl...

:)

Tim Tebow will throw Colt McCoy's heart into the sun, causing cell phone service to be interrupted.

Chuck Norris will be in awe, and Tim will throw him his jersey.

That's if we beat Alabama.

Liberty's Edge

Heathansson wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Heathansson wrote:

REAL vampires rock. Pretty underwear model vampires are suckage.

It's a movie. Who cares if the town wasn't authentic?
The Gators are still gonna kick your ass in.

"Real" vampires? Dude, you're supposed to clean with the Lysol, not inhale the vapors..

And, sorry, Colt will be wearing gator skin boots walking out of the Rose Bowl...

:)

Tim Tebow will throw Colt McCoy's heart into the sun, causing cell phone service to be interrupted.

Chuck Norris will be in awe, and Tim will throw him his jersey.

First, you made me wait that long for return smack?

Second, McCoy will take Tebow's virginity in ways Tim only had nightmares about. Chuck Norris will be in awe, and roundhouse kick his mama.

That is, if y'all beat Alabama.

Liberty's Edge

It was only 5 minutes in my time. I can't post at work no more's.

If you truly believe that Colt McCoy could crash into Tim Tebow more than three times and live to tell about it, then I've 50,000 acres of virgin woodlands near Amarillo to sell you. McCoy's one of those "run out of bounds so they don't hurt me" type guys. Tebow routinely smashes into mountains just to toughen himself up.
It's why there's no mountains left in Florida.

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