Oracle missing important curse


Round 1: Cavalier and Oracle


ok so like where is Crazy?? I need my oracle crazy. The madman with
divine insight is universal. come on I need my Crazy Oracle!!!!!!

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

A few ideas for other curses could be:

Visions - The oracle is beset by visions of creatures or objects that don't exist. This could give penalties to hit, miss chances, or some similar negative. Possible powers could be either divinatory (see invisibility, augury, and/or bonuses vs. illusions)

Stigmata (probably need a better term for this not so closely linked to Christianity) - Whenever combat begins, gain bleed equal to level/4. Possible powers could include endurance/diehard/toughness feats, DR, or other defensive abilities.

Maybe a written version of tongues, causing the person not to be able to read (or use scrolls). Strange writting could appear on the oracles skin daily. Possible powers could include: the ability to create or dispell glyphs, symbols, sepia snake sigils, etc.


perhaps a loss of hit points when casting spells


Power burn....
You can increase your caster level, and all variables, but damage your body by channeling that much energy through it.

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Exiled Prince wrote:

ok so like where is Crazy?? I need my oracle crazy. The madman with

divine insight is universal. come on I need my Crazy Oracle!!!!!!

Yeah, we need the Spaaaaaace Madnesssss curse! Lunacy is definitely a common theme for seers and the like. Perhaps a penalty to perception, skills that require concentration or initiative, and granting a hefty resistance (and eventual) immunity to mind affecting effects and illusions.

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I was surprised we didn't see a vulnerability curse given that oracles are more than just seers. Achilles seems to be a good model for a battle oracle--while we can't expect to see rules for called shots (like Achilles' heel) we could see vulnerability to specific energy types or materials.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Funny... a few hours ago I was thinking Achilles was a fine example of a chaotic evil cavalier.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Curse of mediocrity. No benefits, no drawbacks.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Exiled Prince wrote:

ok so like where is Crazy?? I need my oracle crazy. The madman with

divine insight is universal. come on I need my Crazy Oracle!!!!!!

No no no no no please no.

Do not do this. Do not give bonuses for mental illness, and do not inflict every idiot's "hilarious" crazy oracle on groups everywhere.

Do not do this.


I was thinking. Something with vision of a different kind from the "Clouded Vision" could be interesting. But I have to agree with Man in Black, that a "just" crazy curse seems like a bad excuse to do "weird" characters, mainly there to draw attention. This is not directed at anyone, I know such concepts can be awesome, in the right circumstances, but giving it a mechanic seems wrong to me.


While I love the idea...

...is it wrong that kender wildmages come to mind, here? :)


Precognition would be an appropriate curse.

Contributor

I'm sorry, "Divine Madness" and "Touched by the Gods" as euphemism for madness are such solid old tropes that this is a huge glaring hole in the class.

I was going to start this topic if I didn't find it here already.

Yes, there are players who play madness annoyingly, just the same as there are players who play paladins as overbearing holier-than-though prigs with swords or dwarves as nothing more than bad German accents and beer-drinking songs.

Other games have been dealing with this for years. Go to any Vampire LARP and you'll find the Malkavians divided into two camps: the wacky cackling clown Malkavians and the actual scary crazy people who mostly act completely normal except when they aren't.

Divine Madness needs to be one of the Curses for the Oracle class. All that's needed for this is a line in the RAW that spells out that "Wacky" is not a form of madness, it's just an Odious Personal Habit, but this isn't GURPS, so you get no points for it.

Divine Madness can take a few forms which would fit an oracle just fine. One would be having someone who's completely normal except when "the little voices" tell him to do something, and where the "little voices" are played by the DM.

Call the effect "Whispers." Simple effect: Once per game, character is hit with a lesser geas of the DM's choosing. Sometimes it's something trivial like "Find a bowl of sauerkraut and eat it." (Though this might be less trivial in a dungeon or in a town which doesn't have this dish.) Sometimes it's non-trivial such as "Bathe in the blood of some particular creature." Whatever it is, the DM decides, but avoiding it has the penalties of breaking a lesser geas. The perk? The Whispers (which the Oracle can ascribe to whatever power the player feels like) sometimes tell him useful stuff, in the form of nice bonuses on knowledge checks and maybe even some oracular foreknowledge.

There are plenty of other madnesses that can be good roleplaying fodder.


Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:


Yes, there are players who play madness annoyingly, just the same as there are players who play paladins as overbearing holier-than-though prigs with swords or dwarves as nothing more than bad German accents and beer-drinking songs.

There are Paladin's who aren't?

And personally, I do love a good dwarf drinking song... Hummms 'gold gold gold gold' over and over

;)

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
Other games have been dealing with this for years. Go to any Vampire LARP and you'll find the Malkavians divided into two camps: the wacky cackling clown Malkavians and the actual scary crazy people who mostly act completely normal except when they aren't.

Two excellent reasons why many people avoid Vampire LARPs, and the suggested effects are "The GM randomly dicks with the oracle."

Please, don't do this.

Dark Archive

Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
I'm sorry, "Divine Madness" and "Touched by the Gods" as euphemism for madness are such solid old tropes that this is a huge glaring hole in the class.

Never start a sentence with an apology. Either you mean it, and it's a sign of weakness and starts you off on the wrong foot, or you don't, and it's tacky. :)

Anywho, IMO, any madness effect should be a simple mechanical effect, like suffering a round of confusion at the beginning of any combat, but thereafter gaining some insight bonus for the rest of the fight (perhaps the effects of a guidance spell on oneself only, usable once per round? A floating +1, as the visions guide you, after an initial round of 'info-dump' as the visions cause you to behave unpredictably in that first round).

I kind of auto-translated the blindness and deafness Curses as being madness / vision-based anyway. In the one case, the gods have 'blessed' the character with sight beyond sight, which, unfortunately, blinds him to matters beyond his immediate surroundings, and in the latter case, she hears the overwhelmingly beautiful music of the celestial spheres, the very song of creation itself, drowning out the mundane and earthly drivel of worldy beings. Is it an inconvenience to never hear what is occuring in this world? Perhaps, but she gets to revel in the glorious inspiring music of creation itself, thrumming through her bones, permeating her being, giving her the tiniest taste of what it will be like to leave this world behind and enter the realms of the gods in the afterlife. Sometimes, she dances, trying to capture in unworthy and graceless moves the feelings that the song inspires within her. Of course, no one else can hear it, and she can see them jabbering away like monkeys, calling *her* the one who is mad. Poor jealous fools.

For a darker interpretation, the Oracle of Bones who is deaf hears instead the whispers of the dead, muttering things, never terribly useful or relevant, but distracting. The voices of the living sound far away, such that she can never tell if she is actually hearing them, or simply imagining sound as she sees their fleshy lips flap mutely. Sometimes the wailing grows louder, as if many voices are crying out at once, and she knows from the way her companions are reacting that they too are hearing things, other things, worldly things, that the voices seem to be trying to drown out, as the things of the fleshly world are not hers to hear, lest they distract her from higher, spiritual concerns.

The most 'classical' curse would the curse of Cassandra. You gain great skill at divinations, and add one divination spell to each level of your Spells Known as bonus spells (use predetermined spells, Augury, Speak with Dead, Divination, Commune, etc.), but you can *never* communicate the information you learn. Attempting to transmit the information in any way will fail, and 'hints' will tend to be maliciously misinterpreted, as events sometimes conspire to change your clues to appear to mean the opposite of your desired message.

A curse of fear could make the Oracle immune to fear, completely, except for one thing, which leaves them automatically panicked. I'm not sure about that one, because it's very 'all or nothing' and is either irrelevant (in an adventure where the feared item / creature / situation never appears) or incredibly frustrating (in an adventure where you end up facing nothing *but* your feared object).

A Wrathful curse could give the Oracle Rage benefits, but no ability to control that rage, having to make a check every round of combat (or when otherwise strongly affected emotionally, such as by an Intimidate check made against her to demoralize her) or flip out and Rage for a single round (or until she makes her Will save to snap out of it).

Other sin or passion based Curses could also be options, although a Curse of Lust sounds like it could be a bit NC-17.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Xuttah wrote:
Exiled Prince wrote:

ok so like where is Crazy?? I need my oracle crazy. The madman with

divine insight is universal. come on I need my Crazy Oracle!!!!!!
Yeah, we need the Spaaaaaace Madnesssss curse! Lunacy is definitely a common theme for seers and the like. Perhaps a penalty to perception, skills that require concentration or initiative, and granting a hefty resistance (and eventual) immunity to mind affecting effects and illusions.

or a roll on the confusion table :)

Contributor

Set wrote:
Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
I'm sorry, "Divine Madness" and "Touched by the Gods" as euphemism for madness are such solid old tropes that this is a huge glaring hole in the class.
Never start a sentence with an apology. Either you mean it, and it's a sign of weakness and starts you off on the wrong foot, or you don't, and it's tacky. :)

Standard rhetorical phrase with the understood "I'm sorry, I must beg to differ" or "I'm sorry, but I must disagree" or "I'm sorry, I must not have heard you correctly" or most bluntly "I'm sorry--no." A circumlocution for saying "You're wrong."

And I also might point out that giving others admonitions about grammar and rhetoric in the imperative (such as starting a sentence with "Never") will also often be viewed as tacky, and moreover will generally not persuade anyone except the weak-willed who like taking orders. And then softening the blow of a criticism with an emoticon at the end like this? ;)

I'm sorry--no.

And, I shouldn't have to point out but will, calling anyone else's rhetorical style "tacky" opens you to charges of "Physician, heal thyself."

But lest this get into full flamewar, let's get back to the meat of the arguments, shall we?

Set wrote:
Anywho, IMO, any madness effect should be a simple mechanical effect, like suffering a round of confusion at the beginning of any combat, but thereafter gaining some insight bonus for the rest of the fight (perhaps the effects of a guidance spell on oneself only, usable once per round? A floating +1, as the visions guide you, after an initial round of 'info-dump' as the visions cause you to behave unpredictably in that first round).

This amount of predictability means that people will know that combat has begun because the Oracle is having another fit if it happens every time. And what happens with Oracles who don't see much combat?

Tying a mechanic to combat and only to combat is a mistake.

Set wrote:
I kind of auto-translated the blindness and deafness Curses as being madness / vision-based anyway. In the one case, the gods have 'blessed' the character with sight beyond sight, which, unfortunately, blinds him to matters beyond his immediate surroundings, and in the latter case, she hears the overwhelmingly beautiful music of the celestial spheres, the very song of creation itself, drowning out the mundane and earthly drivel of worldy beings. Is it an inconvenience to never hear what is occuring in this world? Perhaps, but she gets to revel in the glorious inspiring music of creation itself, thrumming through her bones, permeating her being, giving her the tiniest taste of what it will be like to leave this world behind and enter the realms of the gods in the afterlife. Sometimes, she dances, trying to capture in unworthy and graceless moves the feelings that the song inspires within her. Of course, no one else can hear it, and she can see them jabbering away like monkeys, calling *her* the one who is mad. Poor jealous fools.

I agree, most things should be visionary in nature, though the manner in which the Oracle accepts, rejects or interprets this "gift" should be up to the player. Having one Oracle blissed out with ecstatic visions is fine so long as you can have another pissed off about the gods sending them omens and portents at the most inconvenient time.

Think of the scene in Angel where Cordelia gets her first mind-searing vision from The Powers That Be: She gets them in the middle of a commercial audition while she's trying to act and cheerily sell laundry soap or something.

Set wrote:
For a darker interpretation, the Oracle of Bones who is deaf hears instead the whispers of the dead, muttering things, never terribly useful or relevant, but distracting. The voices of the...

But again, it should depend on the character. Some people might like hearing from dead people, either because they're macabre and gothy, or because the dead people they run into are generally nicer and more sympathetic than the living ones they know.

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Peeve:

Spoiler:
Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
I'm sorry,
Set wrote:
Never start a sentence with an apology.

"I'm sorry" is not an apology, even if common idiom uses it in place of one. :P

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Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
But lest this get into full flamewar, let's get back to the meat of the arguments, shall we?

Let's. I still disagree, but I'm not sorry about it.

Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:

This amount of predictability means that people will know that combat has begun because the Oracle is having another fit if it happens every time. And what happens with Oracles who don't see much combat?

Tying a mechanic to combat and only to combat is a mistake.

A valid point, I was using the Tongues Curse, which is also combat-specific, as a jumping off point for that one.

Any suggestions for other ways to have madness afflict the character, without tying it into combat-specific effects, like Tongues?

Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:

I agree, most things should be visionary in nature, though the manner in which the Oracle accepts, rejects or interprets this "gift" should be up to the player. Having one Oracle blissed out with ecstatic visions is fine so long as you can have another pissed off about the gods sending them omens and portents at the most inconvenient time.

Think of the scene in Angel where Cordelia gets her first mind-searing vision from The Powers That Be: She gets them in the middle of a commercial audition while she's trying to act and cheerily sell laundry soap or something.

Yup, which is why I went on to describe versions that were less fun than listening to the music of the Celestial Spheres 24/7 on KRZY radio-in-your-skull. Might feel like a gift, might feel like a curse. I described examples of both, so I definitely agree with what you are saying here.

Bonus points for using Cordelia as an example. :)

Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
But again, it should depend on the character. Some people might like hearing from dead people, either because they're macabre and gothy, or because the dead people they run into are generally nicer and more sympathetic than the living ones they know.

Doesn't matter if they like or dislike hearing the voices. The game mechanic is that they can't hear, which I've 'fluffed' to be because of otherworldly voices. As I mentioned in the description, the Oracle might even regard the voices as protecting her from worldly concerns, keeping her attention focused on more spiritual matters.

It's just fluff for the Deafness curse. The Oracle could love it or hate it or consider it part of the price of doing business with The Other Side.

Contributor

Set wrote:

A valid point, I was using the Tongues Curse, which is also combat-specific, as a jumping off point for that one.

Any suggestions for other ways to have madness afflict the character, without tying it into combat-specific effects, like Tongues?

Give it a trigger that will be common in combat but also in mundane life as well. For example, the sight of blood, the presence of obvious magic, being witness to a death, etc.

It's entirely possible to come up with something not directly tied to the game concept of "combat."

Or maybe have it be as a result of some sort of random roll whenever there's a "stressful situation" as opposed to merely "combat."

Dark Archive

Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
Or maybe have it be as a result of some sort of random roll whenever there's a "stressful situation" as opposed to merely "combat."

That makes sense. A failed social roll (intimidate attempt on the character), a social snub, the sight of a race-hated foe (more relevant to races that have hated foes, like gnomes and dwarves), exposure to fear effects, etc. could all trigger an attack. An NPC Oracle might even freak out on a failed attempt to modify their reaction by Diplomacy, shrieking 'deceiver!' and clawing at the unsuccessful sycophant!

For a critter-phobia, perhaps you could even pick a race / type from the Ranger's Favored Enemy list, and every time you encounter those beasts, you have to make a Will save or be panicked. If you make the save, you get the Ranger's Favored Enemy bonuses as if you were a Ranger.

A fun variation could be an Oracle who considers themselves to have been judged by the gods and cursed with their oracular status. As a Curse effect, they are fearful of religious icons and temples, dreading holy ground (Will save to enter ground they recognize as consecrated or desecrated, or an obvious shrine or temple, even one that is in ruins, treat as shaken the entire time even if they make the save and enter such a place, can also be repelled by a forcefully presented holy symbol, etc.). On the other hand, they have built up a 'tolerance' to divine magic, feeling that they must constanty fight against the divine judgement upon them, and gain bonuses to saving throws vs. divine magic (and, at the highest level, perhaps even Spell Resistance vs. divine spells only).

Curses specific to the type of Foci/Mystery chosen could be neat as well. An Oracle of Earth might be bidden to always travel barefoot, and, like Antaeus, suffer penalties when separated from contact with the earth. A stone floor is acceptable, a wooden floor less so, and travelling by ship should be one of those 'someone go drug B.A.s milk, so we can get his unconscious butt on the plane' situations. On the other hand, through his bare feet, the Oracle of Earth with this curse might be aware of nearby individuals also walking on the earth, having short range tremorsense.

An Oracle of Water might require regular immersion in water, or suffer penalties when not within a certain range of the sea (or at least on a river or lake!), or something, but get bonuses to swimming, holding breath underwater, etc.

An Oracle of Flame, on the other hand, might begin taking damage if ever fully submerged in water, and find excessive contact with water unpleasant, but have a limited water walking ability, as his feet sear the surface of the water and he walks on a carpet of steam.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

What about a fetish item (like a bonded item or holy symbol) that they need for some of their powers to work?


JoelF847 wrote:

A few ideas for other curses could be:

Visions - The oracle is beset by visions of creatures or objects that don't exist. This could give penalties to hit, miss chances, or some similar negative. Possible powers could be either divinatory (see invisibility, augury, and/or bonuses vs. illusions)

Stigmata (probably need a better term for this not so closely linked to Christianity) - Whenever combat begins, gain bleed equal to level/4. Possible powers could include endurance/diehard/toughness feats, DR, or other defensive abilities.

Maybe a written version of tongues, causing the person not to be able to read (or use scrolls). Strange writting could appear on the oracles skin daily. Possible powers could include: the ability to create or dispell glyphs, symbols, sepia snake sigils, etc.

I LIKE. I LIKE ALOT.


Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:

I'm sorry, "Divine Madness" and "Touched by the Gods" as euphemism for madness are such solid old tropes that this is a huge glaring hole in the class.

I was going to start this topic if I didn't find it here already....
......
There are plenty of other madnesses that can be good roleplaying fodder.

I agree. Also another one would be "Divine Signs" where the oracle THINKS he's seeing messages in everyday things- "That fly on the wall is a sign that the killer will be here in three days"

Contributor

Exiled Prince wrote:
Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:

I'm sorry, "Divine Madness" and "Touched by the Gods" as euphemism for madness are such solid old tropes that this is a huge glaring hole in the class.

I was going to start this topic if I didn't find it here already....
......
There are plenty of other madnesses that can be good roleplaying fodder.

I agree. Also another one would be "Divine Signs" where the oracle THINKS he's seeing messages in everyday things- "That fly on the wall is a sign that the killer will be here in three days"

I'd call that "Omens" since the signs and portents aren't necessarily divine in nature.

There should also be a Golarion-specific one for an obsessive Harrow deck reader, or maybe a generic version of same for any oracle who obsessively consults some other variety of divination system. Call it "Fortune Teller" and give them some sort of disad if they can't consult their horoscope, I Ching, Tarot cards, Harrow deck or whatever.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
Exiled Prince wrote:
Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:

I'm sorry, "Divine Madness" and "Touched by the Gods" as euphemism for madness are such solid old tropes that this is a huge glaring hole in the class.

I was going to start this topic if I didn't find it here already....
......
There are plenty of other madnesses that can be good roleplaying fodder.

I agree. Also another one would be "Divine Signs" where the oracle THINKS he's seeing messages in everyday things- "That fly on the wall is a sign that the killer will be here in three days"

I'd call that "Omens" since the signs and portents aren't necessarily divine in nature.

There should also be a Golarion-specific one for an obsessive Harrow deck reader, or maybe a generic version of same for any oracle who obsessively consults some other variety of divination system. Call it "Fortune Teller" and give them some sort of disad if they can't consult their horoscope, I Ching, Tarot cards, Harrow deck or whatever.

Sounds like Two-Face should be an oracle of flipping a coin! :)

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Galnörag wrote:


or a roll on the confusion table :)

Your personal favourite. :)

A Will save equal to 10+the CR of the encounter every round or roll on the confusion table might work, although it could get old if the character keeps on Flame Striking the party though. Perhaps Will save or be staggered or dazed?

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

Well, there is being blind, and deaf.. so what about a curse that makes the Oracle mute?

Not sure what the benefits would be.. but it might be kinda neat.

EDIT: Well shoot, someone beat me to the punch:

Velcro Zipper wrote:

It might be a little early to start posting new curse ideas since we're still in the playtest stage but I thought one up a moment ago I might try out with an NPC:

Oracle Curse: Mute
You are incapable of vocal speech or sound. You cast all of your spells as if they were affected by the Silent Spell feat. This does not increase their level or casting time. At 5th level, you gain a level of empathy granting you +3 competence bonus on Sense Motive checks. This empathy works both ways and other creatures also gain this bonus when attempting to determine your motives. At 10th level, you can communicate telepathically with one creature within 100ft. of you. This communication is one way and language-dependent. At 15th level, you can communicate telepathically with all creatures within 10ft/level of you and you gain a +2 competence bonus on Bluff and Diplomacy checks while communicating in this way. This communication works both ways and is not language-dependent.

I'm looking forward to some new foci as well since the current playtestable ones don't do a whole lot for me.


Oracle Curse:Martyr(taken from JoelF847's "Stigmata" curse idea)

You are plagued by a chronic, mysterious pain. Whenever combat begins, gain bleed equal to your level/4 lasting 1d6 rounds. at 5th level you gain a +3 competence bonus on heal checks against deadly wounds unless you, yourself have said wounds, however, you take a -2 penalty when trying to stabilize yourself At 10th level the bleeding at the beginning of battle increases to your level/2 but you gain diehard as a bonus feat and you gain 2 extra hit points at level up . at 15th level you begin to understand your curse and gain immunity to any "bleeds", other than the one at the beginning of the battle.Also during your bleed, you spontaneously cast Implosion, lasting until the bleeding stops, if a creature dies before the effect ends, another creature must be designated, provided they are within range, if nno enemy can be targeted all spells you cast take a 20% chance of failure that stacks with any others you currently have

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