Bonded Item Vs Familiar?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Liberty's Edge

So I was wondering what are your thoughts on the subject?

Personally prefer the bonded item as it provides an ability to spontaneously cast anything in your spell book without prepping it. However loosing the item could cause you to be unable to cast spells.

Meanwhile they said to use familiars as "the corpse" aka the scout or provide touch spells at distant.

So what do you guys prefer?


I'm taking a Bonded object.
But then I'm a Ranger 4, Diviner 1 with a Bard/Sorceror, Paladin and Cleric in the party and a GM who tends to be a bit stingy on magic items. So having taken Practiced Spellcaster (3.5 feat that adds +4 to your CL upto HD max) I intend to shove every ability I can into my Amulet. :-)

Stephen E


Suzaku wrote:
So what do you guys prefer?

It really depends on your GM more than anything else. If your GM is the kind you can trust not to take away your bonded item, then it's almost certainly the best choice, IMO. Though something that can be easily disarmed might pose problems, regardless. I personally would never make it a weapon.

On the other hand, if your GM is a sadist, and might potentially deprive you of the item, then avoid bonded items at all costs! LOL

Sovereign Court

I have a lot more fun role-playing with my familiars then I do with a stick or a ring.

Definitely a lot more enjoyable!


I've got the bonded amulet on my current wizard, and I love the batman "I just happen to have bat shark repellant on my bat utility belt" feature of 'pull a spell out of my spellbook.'. Plus, as someone playing a conjurer/summoner, I've already got enough crap to keep track of/run, without slowing the game down more by having a familiar do stuff :).


Stephen Ede wrote:

I'm taking a Bonded object.

But then I'm a Ranger 4, Diviner 1

In this case Bonded Object is going to be much better, because if you lose it, no big deal.

Though a Ranger might benefit nicely from a familiar - say an Owl? Alertness + familiar granted bonuses to sight checks + Ranger seems like a great combination - in addition to having a flying scout.


I love the idea of the bonded item. I'm not sure yet though if its a case of "oo new shiny!" or because I actually do like it better.

Largely I think it would come down to the DM. The Dm's I've had in the past are not terribly big on sundering or stealing your items. Nor are they terribly fond of randomly targeting your familiar or animal companion unless you decide to send the creature into Harm's way directly.

"great" for those touch attacks is also "great" for taking an ettin's club skull first.

That being said, some of my more memorable RP's from a character development standpoint revolve around interesting familiars. My last Wizard was a halfling who's pseudo dragon familiar who was longer nose to tail than his master was tall.

I am not sure that same effect could have been used, had I some stick or piece of metal on my finger.

-S


Grep wrote:
Suzaku wrote:
So what do you guys prefer?

It really depends on your GM more than anything else. If your GM is the kind you can trust not to take away your bonded item, then it's almost certainly the best choice, IMO. Though something that can be easily disarmed might pose problems, regardless. I personally would never make it a weapon.

On the other hand, if your GM is a sadist, and might potentially deprive you of the item, then avoid bonded items at all costs! LOL

'Trust'?

The power of magic somes at a cost.

  • You need to sleep well.
  • You need to protect your spell book.
  • You need to protect your bond.

To a certain extent, it is the DMs responciblity to attack these thing occationally, else the wizard is getting a free lunch. Not doing it would be like saying 'yeah, paladin, you can do evil stuff, its no biggy' or 'hey oracle, that curse you have seems like a drag so forget about it.'

That isn't 'being sadistic' it is playing out the consiquences of power.

PS: this is all ofcause merely my opinion.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Zombieneighbours wrote:
Grep wrote:
Suzaku wrote:
So what do you guys prefer?

It really depends on your GM more than anything else. If your GM is the kind you can trust not to take away your bonded item, then it's almost certainly the best choice, IMO. Though something that can be easily disarmed might pose problems, regardless. I personally would never make it a weapon.

On the other hand, if your GM is a sadist, and might potentially deprive you of the item, then avoid bonded items at all costs! LOL

'Trust'?

The power of magic somes at a cost.

  • You need to sleep well.
  • You need to protect certain peices of equipment.

To a certain extent, it is the DMs responciblity to attack these thing occationally, else the wizard is getting a free lunch.

That isn't 'being sadistic' it is playing out the consiquences of power.

The key word being 'occasionally'. Once in a while keeps the Wizard's paranoia at a nice level but doesn't seem like you're out to get him. Every combat? Probably a bit too much.


Treantmonk wrote:
Stephen Ede wrote:

I'm taking a Bonded object.

But then I'm a Ranger 4, Diviner 1

In this case Bonded Object is going to be much better, because if you lose it, no big deal.

Though a Ranger might benefit nicely from a familiar - say an Owl? Alertness + familiar granted bonuses to sight checks + Ranger seems like a great combination - in addition to having a flying scout.

I took a Animal Companion.

Having an Animal Companion AND a familiar seems a bit much.
That said I'd have taken a Familiar if I hadn't had access to the Practiced Spellcaster feat from Complete Adventurer. That gives me CL 5 and allows me to enchant my amulet.

Amulet of NAC/Armour/Mental Prowess/etc sounds quite nice. :-)

Stephen E


Paul Watson wrote:
Zombieneighbours wrote:
Grep wrote:
Suzaku wrote:
So what do you guys prefer?

It really depends on your GM more than anything else. If your GM is the kind you can trust not to take away your bonded item, then it's almost certainly the best choice, IMO. Though something that can be easily disarmed might pose problems, regardless. I personally would never make it a weapon.

On the other hand, if your GM is a sadist, and might potentially deprive you of the item, then avoid bonded items at all costs! LOL

'Trust'?

The power of magic somes at a cost.

  • You need to sleep well.
  • You need to protect certain peices of equipment.

To a certain extent, it is the DMs responciblity to attack these thing occationally, else the wizard is getting a free lunch.

That isn't 'being sadistic' it is playing out the consiquences of power.

The key word being 'occasionally'. Once in a while keeps the Wizard's paranoia at a nice level but doesn't seem like you're out to get him. Every combat? Probably a bit too much.

Your right there.

But when did i ever say it should be done every combat :P


Zombieneighbours wrote:


'Trust'?

The power of magic somes at a cost.

  • You need to sleep well.
  • You need to protect your spell book.
  • You need to protect your bond.

To a certain extent, it is the DMs responciblity to attack these thing occationally, else the wizard is getting a free lunch. Not doing it would be like saying 'yeah, paladin, you can do evil stuff, its no biggy' or 'hey oracle, that curse you have seems like a drag so forget about it.'

With all respect Letting the Paladin getting away with evil is like letting the Wizard leave his spellbook at home.

Attacking the Wizards spellbook or bonded item is like putting the paladin in variants of the "if the innocent child lives a great demon will be released" moral dilema. Rare occasions can enhance play, IMHO, but anything beyond that is simply GM sadism.

Stephen E


So, on the 'will/should' the GM do various things to target different players stuff....

That's so particular to individual groups playing style that there's no way to even consider the question having a universal answer.

As such, the only time it should even be considered is for non steady group based play, IE PFS/organized play.


Monkey familiar. And a bunch or ranks in UMD. And the Tongues Spell.
Opposable thumbs are a winner *every* time.


Spacelard wrote:

Monkey familiar. And a bunch or ranks in UMD. And the Tongues Spell.

Opposable thumbs are a winner *every* time.

Which brings up the obvious question....

Would you like to touch my monkey?


Zombieneighbours wrote:

'Trust'?

The power of magic somes at a cost.

  • You need to sleep well.
  • You need to protect your spell book.
  • You need to protect your bond.

To a certain extent, it is the DMs responciblity to attack these thing occationally, else the wizard is getting a free lunch. Not doing it would be like saying 'yeah, paladin, you can do evil stuff, its no biggy' or 'hey oracle, that curse you have seems like a drag so forget about it.'

That isn't 'being sadistic' it is playing out the consiquences of power.

PS: this is all ofcause merely my opinion.

The "sadist" comment was somewhat tongue in cheek, of course, but it does apply to a few DMs. :)

I'm not saying it's wrong for the DM to take spellbooks/bonded items/etc away. My opinion is that he shouldn't be specifically trying to do so, in general. If the DM wants the party dead, they're dead. If he wants them naked in the cold, they will be naked in the cold.

And if the DM is to take essential items away, it should be done with a certain amount of style, IMO. It should be done in a fair way, and a way that will not ruin the player's fun. And hopefully it can be done in a memorable way.

And by memorable, I don't mean "The Wizard is totally useless through a large part of the adventure, and thus might as well have stayed home". If I was the DM, I'd only do it in certain cases. Like if the player was acting negligent with the item and needs a lesson. And I would expect that it would somehow advance the story, give the party an interesting challenge, or at least provide memorable RP.

It should be kept in mind just how crippling losing your bonded item is (at least at lower levels). If the consequences of the choice are so dire, and it's almost certainly going to happen, who in their right minds would ever take one? So yeah, I'd only take a bonded item if my DM is one I trust not to ruin my fun. Fun being the whole point of playing.

Note that I'm not disagreeing with you, here, just clarifying my position. I don't think any DM that takes away a bonded object is a sadist. The DM and the players are really on the same side (just don't let them know that! LOL). We're likely approximately on the same page. Giving the players a free ride is not fun for long.


Familiars vs Bonded items can be all about style.

2 classes can change the balance. Elk and AA
AA can use bonded item to make his custom bow all powerful
Elk can do likewise with his melee weapon.

BUT....

If either has bothered to take craft magic arms and armour then they DEFINATELY are better with a familiar.

This is because most AA or Elk builds will have BAB between 15-17 and so would the familiar. Any spell with a target of 'YOU' can instead be cast on a familiar. Now the Elk or AA can turn their Raven into a high BAB buddy who possibly fights alt better than the druid's companion.

Cheers.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Ardenup wrote:
Now the Elk or AA can turn their Raven into a high BAB buddy who possibly fights alt better than the druid's companion.

It doesn't work as well as you'd hope, even if you have Spell Compendium spells. I've tried.


Farabor wrote:
Spacelard wrote:

Monkey familiar. And a bunch or ranks in UMD. And the Tongues Spell.

Opposable thumbs are a winner *every* time.

Which brings up the obvious question....

Would you like to touch my monkey?

Sick Puppy!


Crap Double Post


A Man In Black wrote:
Ardenup wrote:
Now the Elk or AA can turn their Raven into a high BAB buddy who possibly fights alt better than the druid's companion.
It doesn't work as well as you'd hope, even if you have Spell Compendium spells. I've tried.

Why not? HP would be a stuggle but seems sound, what feel over?

Would you rather a bonded item.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Ardenup wrote:

Why not? HP would be a stuggle but seems sound, what feel over?

Would you rather a bonded item.

HP and damage are your biggest issues. Life just sucks if you're tiny, as most familiars are.

I would prefer a bonded item, but that's beside the point; I'm just saying that going the buffing-the-familiar-to-high-heaven strategy isn't that great.


Both the object and the familiar have their uses. For a prepared spellcaster, the "wild card" spell is nice, and familiars have some good abilities too (I especially like the bat familiar's blindsense).

For an arcane bloodline sorcerer, I wouldn't bother with the bonded object.


Ardenup wrote:

Familiars vs Bonded items can be all about style.

2 classes can change the balance. Elk and AA
AA can use bonded item to make his custom bow all powerful
Elk can do likewise with his melee weapon.

True. I'm currently playing an elf wiz/ftr who is on his way to Eldritch Knight. He has an Elven Curve Blade as a bonded weapon.

I was a bit weary picking this option, because of all the potential disadvantages mentioned (loosing that blade would be VERY bad for him), but I just had a great character concept in mind, and the flavor of a magical warrior and his bonded blade was too much fun to resist.

Finding ways of overcoming the difficulties that arise from the choices made during character development is just part of the fun of playing. As has already been mentioned, any class has weaknesses that can be exploited by a sadistic GM. I expect my GM to take a stab or two at my blade, but that is why I'm taking Defensive Combat Training and am happy that a Curve Blade has a +2 bonus to resist sunder attacks.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I like both. The choice usually comes down to character design, the campaign and personal preferences.

I have seen a pseudo-dragon carry a "silenced" pebble, flying above the fight or going to the exit on the other side of the cavern, to keep the sound of the fight silent, but also while letting the party casters get their spells in. Also, with invisibility cast on it, scout out a few areas.

I have also seen the bonded item pull the party's bacon out of the fire with the appropriate spell at the last second.


  • I allow a 3rd option: "Eidetic Memory," which essentially provides Spell Mastery for all of your spells (i.e., your spellbooks are kept in your brain).
  • Alternatively, for those with familiars, at higher levels, familiars can concentrate for you for spells requiring ongoing concentration.
  • For bonded items, I allow standard ones and also variant school-specific ones (e.g., evocation bonded item doesn't give you a free spell, but it doubles your school damage bonus).

    The standard bonded items are still in the majority, because that free spell is so awesome, but the choice isn't quite so clear-cut as it is in the Pathfinder core rules.

  • Liberty's Edge

    Spacelard wrote:
    Farabor wrote:
    Spacelard wrote:

    Monkey familiar. And a bunch or ranks in UMD. And the Tongues Spell.

    Opposable thumbs are a winner *every* time.

    Which brings up the obvious question....

    Would you like to touch my monkey?

    Sick Puppy!

    Ugh. Off-topic, I know, but it must be mentioned.

    I once had a player who was doing...some kind of weird class combo that left him with a familiar - Eldritch Fist or Dragon Disciple or something. He picked a monkey. He named it Spank. He gave it a viking helmet and tiny greatsword.

    I don't think I need to say anything more.


    He should have named it Jacques, not Spank.


    Robert Gift wrote:


    Eldritch Fist

    That, my friend, belongs on another thread...

    Along with that other Bigby's Hand spell which he kept for those long winter evenings...


    Spacelard wrote:
    Robert Gift wrote:


    Eldritch Fist

    That, my friend, belongs on another thread...

    Along with that other Bigby's Hand spell which he kept for those long winter evenings...

    On that note, best reason to take a familiar:

    Polymorph the familiar into a nymph for the night...

    The rest of you can play with your rods, staves, and rings


    Mirror, Mirror wrote:

    On that note, best reason to take a familiar:

    Polymorph the familiar into a nymph for the night...

    The rest of you can play with your rods, staves, and rings

    Ewww...that's your pet! yuck.

    A true wizard is more interested in reading anyways...

    Leave the planar binding fun to the pretty and stupid Sorcerers.

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