paizo.com Recent Posts in Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?paizo.com Recent Posts in Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?2012-11-15T22:16:03Z2012-11-15T22:16:03ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?ProfessorCirnohttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#942010-05-31T22:49:29Z2010-05-31T22:49:29Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">The Grandfather wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Treantmonk wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I'm just not sure what to do with Monks...I intend to take a closer look at them at some point...</p>
<p></blockquote>How is it coming? </blockquote><p><b><i>What.</i></b>The Grandfather wrote:Treantmonk wrote:I'm just not sure what to do with Monks...I intend to take a closer look at them at some point...
How is it coming? What.ProfessorCirno2010-05-31T22:49:29ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?Christopher Vrysenhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#932010-05-31T18:39:37Z2010-05-31T18:39:37Z<p>I think monks need an all-around fix. I'd like the option to pursue either a CM style or the striking style.
<br />
For the first, no flurry but a constant full BAB for CMs, access to greaters, set bonuses to maneuvers (possibly particularly chosen ones), capping at combining 2 or more maneuvers into one action.
<br />
The second, I'd cut back on their maneuver bonues but add more striking options, maybe the choice between full attack flurry power and standard action massive damage.
<br />
As is, now and over the years past, they consistantly are exciting on paper and frustrating when played, barring intensive DM mollycoddling.</p>I think monks need an all-around fix. I'd like the option to pursue either a CM style or the striking style.
For the first, no flurry but a constant full BAB for CMs, access to greaters, set bonuses to maneuvers (possibly particularly chosen ones), capping at combining 2 or more maneuvers into one action.
The second, I'd cut back on their maneuver bonues but add more striking options, maybe the choice between full attack flurry power and standard action massive damage.
As is, now and over the...Christopher Vrysen2010-05-31T18:39:37ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?Iczerhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#922010-05-31T15:18:53Z2010-05-31T15:18:52Z<p>The way I see it is that the monk is sort of your mixed bag of sweets. It's all good in theory, but there's not enough turkish delights in the box to go around. </p>
<p>He's stretched really thin. I think the best solution would be allow his wisdom to be more useful, perhaps, as suggested above, by making him substitute his wisdom for other attributes (dex for dodge, str for power attack, In for combat reflexes etc).</p>
<p>Frankly his flexibility won't expand much more, but he will have less reason (not 'no reason' just less) to spread himself so thin.</p>
<p>batts</p>The way I see it is that the monk is sort of your mixed bag of sweets. It's all good in theory, but there's not enough turkish delights in the box to go around.
He's stretched really thin. I think the best solution would be allow his wisdom to be more useful, perhaps, as suggested above, by making him substitute his wisdom for other attributes (dex for dodge, str for power attack, In for combat reflexes etc).
Frankly his flexibility won't expand much more, but he will have less reason (not...Iczer2010-05-31T15:18:52ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?Remco Sommelinghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#912010-05-31T09:42:00Z2010-05-31T09:40:15Z<p>To be honest I kinda agree with the intelligence requirement for the greater combat feats flavorwise mostly, I dread seeing int 6 monks run around in my games doing all kinds of flashy maneuvers, but the monk needs several ability scores at a fairly high level which makes int 13 fairly hard to obtain with dice rolling or sacrifing much in other places with point buy.</p>
<p>two possible solutions :</p>
<p>1) drop int requirement to 10, for the feats to make them more accesible.</p>
<p>2) A change to point buy might mediate this somewhat I think at the cost of slightly more complicated character design :</p>
<p>Grant more points for point buy, but at the same time make it more expensive to increase abilities beyond 14 points.</p>
<p>up to 14 = 1 point per increase
<br />
from 14 up to 16 = 2 points per increase
<br />
from 16 up to 18 = 3 points per increase</p>
<p>Personally I tend towards giving 30 points using this method, but feel free to adjust as you see fit. (starting score 10)</p>
<p>• For ability scores rolled with dice mixing up point buy and rolling might be a good solution if this is a problem in your camapaign, for example :</p>
<p>roll 4d6 like normal but substract 1 point from every rolled score, and give the players 10 points to buy ability increases like above.
<br />
This is the way I like best. I like to roll stats, but gives a fair ammount of freedom to make well rounded characters.</p>To be honest I kinda agree with the intelligence requirement for the greater combat feats flavorwise mostly, I dread seeing int 6 monks run around in my games doing all kinds of flashy maneuvers, but the monk needs several ability scores at a fairly high level which makes int 13 fairly hard to obtain with dice rolling or sacrifing much in other places with point buy.
two possible solutions :
1) drop int requirement to 10, for the feats to make them more accesible.
2) A change to point buy...Remco Sommeling2010-05-31T09:40:15ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?The Grandfatherhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#902010-10-06T18:41:36Z2010-05-31T07:58:49Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Treantmonk wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I'm just not sure what to do with Monks...I intend to take a closer look at them at some point...</p>
<p></blockquote><p>How is it coming?Treantmonk wrote:I'm just not sure what to do with Monks...I intend to take a closer look at them at some point...
How is it coming?The Grandfather2010-05-31T07:58:49ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?KaeYosshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#892010-05-31T07:58:51Z2009-11-22T12:58:14Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">tejón wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Huh? Googol and googol-plex are and have always been precisely defined.</blockquote><p>Not according to wikipedia and a couple of other sources.tejón wrote:Huh? Googol and googol-plex are and have always been precisely defined.
Not according to wikipedia and a couple of other sources.KaeYoss2009-11-22T12:58:14ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?Majubahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#882010-05-31T07:58:51Z2009-11-21T03:33:41Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">tejón wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">KaeYoss wrote:</div><blockquote>If a googolplex is defined as "1 followed by as many 0 as you can write before you get tired" (well, that was the original definition)</blockquote>Huh? Googol and googol-plex are and have always been precisely defined. One googol is 10^100, and one googol-plex is 10^(10^100). </blockquote><p>And you could never write a googol-plex, there aren't enough particles in the universe, even if you reused the entire universe to do it every millisecond for a million trillion years.tejón wrote:KaeYoss wrote:If a googolplex is defined as "1 followed by as many 0 as you can write before you get tired" (well, that was the original definition)
Huh? Googol and googol-plex are and have always been precisely defined. One googol is 10^100, and one googol-plex is 10^(10^100). And you could never write a googol-plex, there aren't enough particles in the universe, even if you reused the entire universe to do it every millisecond for a million trillion years.Majuba2009-11-21T03:33:41ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?tejón (RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#872010-05-31T07:58:51Z2009-11-21T02:03:36Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">KaeYoss wrote:</div><blockquote>If a googolplex is defined as "1 followed by as many 0 as you can write before you get tired" (well, that was the original definition)</blockquote><p>Huh? Googol and googol-plex are and have always been precisely defined. One googol is 10^100, and one googol-plex is 10^(10^100).KaeYoss wrote:If a googolplex is defined as "1 followed by as many 0 as you can write before you get tired" (well, that was the original definition)
Huh? Googol and googol-plex are and have always been precisely defined. One googol is 10^100, and one googol-plex is 10^(10^100).tejón (RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16)2009-11-21T02:03:36ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?Louis IX (alias of Louis Capet)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#862010-05-31T07:58:51Z2009-11-21T01:05:31Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">KaeYoss wrote:</div><blockquote><p>A killion is a googolplex to the power of a googolplex, at the very least. </p>
<p>If a googolplex is defined as "1 followed by as many 0 as you can write before you get tired" (well, that was the original definition), the definition of a killion is "1 followed by a as many 0 as someone could write if he wrote really really fast and kept at it until well after at least two Ends of the Universe came to pass" </blockquote><p>I like your definition better than wikipedia's. On the Adams-Pratchett's scale, it reaches 41... a near Turtle-like perfection ;-) I'll now stop writing nonsensical sentences about this and return to the topic, I promise.
<p>0) see GM
<br />
1) increasing jump capabilities (which I'd like, even as a feat) : see rule 0
<br />
2) skipping prerequisites for Greater manoeuvers feats (which I'd like too) : see rule 0</p>KaeYoss wrote:A killion is a googolplex to the power of a googolplex, at the very least.
If a googolplex is defined as "1 followed by as many 0 as you can write before you get tired" (well, that was the original definition), the definition of a killion is "1 followed by a as many 0 as someone could write if he wrote really really fast and kept at it until well after at least two Ends of the Universe came to pass"
I like your definition better than wikipedia's. On the Adams-Pratchett's...Louis IX (alias of Louis Capet)2009-11-21T01:05:31ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?KaeYosshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#852010-05-31T07:58:51Z2009-11-20T23:27:56Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Louis IX wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">KaeYoss wrote:</div><blockquote>killion: A number so big that it would kill you. </blockquote>Seen a googolplex already? </blockquote><p>A killion is a googolplex to the power of a googolplex, at the very least.
<p>If a googolplex is defined as "1 followed by as many 0 as you can write before you get tired" (well, that was the original definition), the definition of a killion is "1 followed by a as many 0 as someone could write if he wrote really really fast and kept at it until well after at least two Ends of the Universe came to pass"</p>Louis IX wrote:KaeYoss wrote:killion: A number so big that it would kill you.
Seen a googolplex already? A killion is a googolplex to the power of a googolplex, at the very least. If a googolplex is defined as "1 followed by as many 0 as you can write before you get tired" (well, that was the original definition), the definition of a killion is "1 followed by a as many 0 as someone could write if he wrote really really fast and kept at it until well after at least two Ends of the Universe...KaeYoss2009-11-20T23:27:56ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?Louis IX (alias of Louis Capet)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#842010-05-31T07:58:51Z2009-11-20T21:53:09Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">KaeYoss wrote:</div><blockquote>killion: A number so big that it would kill you. </blockquote><p>Seen a googolplex already?KaeYoss wrote:killion: A number so big that it would kill you.
Seen a googolplex already?Louis IX (alias of Louis Capet)2009-11-20T21:53:09ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?KaeYosshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#832010-05-31T07:58:51Z2009-11-20T18:56:07Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Louis IX wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
That's a good idea. It even put images in my mind of Tai Lung's escape (Kung Fu Panda) or the Kick Boots (Castlevania) - don't look at me that way, those are my son's toys.</blockquote><p>1. I'm always looking that way.
</p>
2. Liar liar pants on fire.
<br />
3. Megaman, too. At least Megaman-X. And Samus (from Metroid) has moves like this as well. Hm... Monks need the Space Jump. And can we get a Screw Attack feat?
<br />
4. Also, look at a killion• wuxia movies. It's a staple</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Louis IX wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Some less-than-happy poster would object that the current system is already allowing this... kind of.
<br />
1) if you have a wall nearby: do a high jump on it, take hold, then do another high jump from it.
<br />
2) if you have two walls: do several high jumps, not forgetting to take hold between each.
<br />
You'll need some ranks in Climb, though. And those would be several move actions, allowing the enemy to escape higher - and you to take falling damage :( </blockquote><p>Yeah, I want that to be possible without multiple actions.
<p>•killion: A number so big that it would kill you.</p>Louis IX wrote:That's a good idea. It even put images in my mind of Tai Lung's escape (Kung Fu Panda) or the Kick Boots (Castlevania) - don't look at me that way, those are my son's toys.
1. I'm always looking that way.
2. Liar liar pants on fire.
3. Megaman, too. At least Megaman-X. And Samus (from Metroid) has moves like this as well. Hm... Monks need the Space Jump. And can we get a Screw Attack feat?
4. Also, look at a killion* wuxia movies. It's a staple Louis IX wrote:Some...KaeYoss2009-11-20T18:56:07ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?grasshopper_eahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#822010-05-31T07:58:51Z2009-11-19T20:34:09Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">KaeYoss wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Is there a particular reason why monks don't get to choose Greater Trip etc. as bonus feats? </p>
<p>Because if they have to choose them as regular feats, they need to fulfill all prerequisites - which for Greater Trip/Disarm/Feint includes Int 13. It was nice to be able to ignore at least Int and Cha for monks. </blockquote><p>Let's add insult to injury and give greater versions to oracles as class abilities and the monks are stuck taking unused feats to qualify :)KaeYoss wrote:Is there a particular reason why monks don't get to choose Greater Trip etc. as bonus feats?
Because if they have to choose them as regular feats, they need to fulfill all prerequisites - which for Greater Trip/Disarm/Feint includes Int 13. It was nice to be able to ignore at least Int and Cha for monks.
Let's add insult to injury and give greater versions to oracles as class abilities and the monks are stuck taking unused feats to qualify :)grasshopper_ea2009-11-19T20:34:09ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?Louis IX (alias of Louis Capet)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#812010-05-31T07:58:51Z2009-11-19T20:32:32Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">KaeYoss wrote:</div><blockquote>"If you have something to push off, like a wall, the DC for a high jump is equal to height x2. If you have two walls (or trees or something like that) opposite each other, the DC for a high jump is equal to height. </blockquote><p>That's a good idea. It even put images in my mind of Tai Lung's escape (Kung Fu Panda) or the Kick Boots (Castlevania) - don't look at me that way, those are my son's toys.
<p>Some less-than-happy poster would object that the current system is already allowing this... kind of.
<br />
1) if you have a wall nearby: do a high jump on it, take hold, then do another high jump from it.
<br />
2) if you have two walls: do several high jumps, not forgetting to take hold between each.
<br />
You'll need some ranks in Climb, though. And those would be several move actions, allowing the enemy to escape higher - and you to take falling damage :(</p>KaeYoss wrote:"If you have something to push off, like a wall, the DC for a high jump is equal to height x2. If you have two walls (or trees or something like that) opposite each other, the DC for a high jump is equal to height.
That's a good idea. It even put images in my mind of Tai Lung's escape (Kung Fu Panda) or the Kick Boots (Castlevania) - don't look at me that way, those are my son's toys. Some less-than-happy poster would object that the current system is already allowing this......Louis IX (alias of Louis Capet)2009-11-19T20:32:32ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?KaeYosshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#802010-05-31T07:58:51Z2009-11-19T19:26:32Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Kaisoku wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Back to the original topic:
<br />
</blockquote><p>That's not the original topic. The original topic is "Why can't monks learn to be really good at disarming and stuff as part of their monk training?"
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Kaisoku wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
any thoughts on changing the Monk's "High Jump" ability to allow 4x the height (basically like a distance jump)?
<br />
</blockquote><p>Hm... yes, actually. Make it a reverse slow fall:
<p>"If you have something to push off, like a wall, the DC for a high jump is equal to height x2. If you have two walls (or trees or something like that) opposite each other, the DC for a high jump is equal to height.</p>Kaisoku wrote:Back to the original topic:
That's not the original topic. The original topic is "Why can't monks learn to be really good at disarming and stuff as part of their monk training?" Kaisoku wrote:any thoughts on changing the Monk's "High Jump" ability to allow 4x the height (basically like a distance jump)?
Hm... yes, actually. Make it a reverse slow fall: "If you have something to push off, like a wall, the DC for a high jump is equal to height x2. If you have two walls (or trees...KaeYoss2009-11-19T19:26:32ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?Zurai (alias of William Senn)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#792010-05-31T07:58:51Z2009-11-18T20:03:11Z<p>Yeah, no kidding. My 9th level monk can get up to a +64 bonus to jump checks, and that's without any magic items.</p>Yeah, no kidding. My 9th level monk can get up to a +64 bonus to jump checks, and that's without any magic items.Zurai (alias of William Senn)2009-11-18T20:03:11ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?Kaisokuhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#782010-05-31T07:58:51Z2009-11-18T19:59:07Z<p>With a Monk being able to spend a single Ki point to get a +20 bonus to his jump, that'd be crazy! ... Crazy awesome!</p>
<p>But probably why it won't make it into the game (10th level had enough bonus to threaten death from massive damage, haha).</p>With a Monk being able to spend a single Ki point to get a +20 bonus to his jump, that'd be crazy! ... Crazy awesome!
But probably why it won't make it into the game (10th level had enough bonus to threaten death from massive damage, haha).Kaisoku2009-11-18T19:59:07ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?Mirror, Mirrorhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#772010-05-31T07:58:51Z2009-11-18T19:24:04Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Kaisoku wrote:</div><blockquote> I seem to recall charge + unarmed strike = <i>bonus damage Flying Kick</i> style feats from a source someplace... that would mesh well with extreme height from jumping. </blockquote><p>I wish we could get Leap Attack as it was in BESM D20.
<p>If you win init, you make a single att roll as part of a charge. If you hit, you add your jump bonus to your damage.</p>
<p>That's right, the BONUS. Oh yeah!</p>Kaisoku wrote:I seem to recall charge + unarmed strike = bonus damage Flying Kick style feats from a source someplace... that would mesh well with extreme height from jumping.
I wish we could get Leap Attack as it was in BESM D20. If you win init, you make a single att roll as part of a charge. If you hit, you add your jump bonus to your damage.
That's right, the BONUS. Oh yeah!Mirror, Mirror2009-11-18T19:24:04ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?Kaisokuhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#762010-05-31T07:58:51Z2009-11-18T19:20:24Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">paul halcott wrote:</div><blockquote><p>What I said was:
</p>
Wow. I remember a time when a game was played for fun and a clas was played for flavor. WHile I like the d20 system for the most part, posts and discussions like this drive me insane. Everything now is a quantified power equation. I agree some level of balance should be maintained to keep things fair and fun, but when power rankings become the rule of the day, it does make a sad statement.</p>
<p>How is that saying I took offense to the idea that a monk could use a boost?</blockquote><p>You are right, I'm sorry I misunderstood your post. I thought you were upset that we were having a discussion about the game crunch. Now I see that numbers crunch is a button for you (like misspelling of "Rouge" is for me).
<p>I guess my appropriate response to that quote should have been: <i>"I seriously doubt that anyone posting here plays like that, so don't get driven insane by the comments. This is rules discussion, which is primarily crunch. I would bet my last dollar that everyone who's posted in this thread so far actually plays the game like a roleplaying game when they are at the table, and not an MMO, despite the discussion about relative power."</i></p>
<p>.</p>
<p>Back to the original topic: any thoughts on changing the Monk's "High Jump" ability to allow 4x the height (basically like a distance jump)?</p>
<p>I seem to recall charge + unarmed strike = <i>bonus damage Flying Kick</i> style feats from a source someplace... that would mesh well with extreme height from jumping.</p>paul halcott wrote:What I said was:
Wow. I remember a time when a game was played for fun and a clas was played for flavor. WHile I like the d20 system for the most part, posts and discussions like this drive me insane. Everything now is a quantified power equation. I agree some level of balance should be maintained to keep things fair and fun, but when power rankings become the rule of the day, it does make a sad statement.How is that saying I took offense to the idea that a monk could use...Kaisoku2009-11-18T19:20:24ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?Xumhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#752010-05-31T07:58:51Z2009-11-18T14:21:20Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">paul halcott wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Xum wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Zurai wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Xum wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Actually you can. Very much so.</blockquote>No, no you can't. Monks are "any lawful" and barbarians are "any nonlawful". Since you can't have a lawful nonlawful character, you can't have a monk/barbarian. </blockquote>Monk Level X and when satisfied with it you change alignment to Neutral or Chaotic and add Barbarian Levels, no biggie there, you wouldn't even lose any monk abilities. </blockquote>I think its comments like this that were at the root of the previous post about mmorpg with pen and paper. I could be wrong, but when I hear a line like this, it doesnt say the person wants to play a well rounded fleshed out plausable character. To me this says they want to mash abilities together for the sole purpose of the bonus you get. I dont think he was being insulting. he was stating the basic fact that in his group, the characters are more then just the sum of their stats. They are designed around concepts other then strict values of cost vs benefit. I guess what each person finds fun is kinda like beauty: its in the eyes of the beholder. </blockquote><p>I love pen and paper, much more than any mmo. It would be a well rounded character. In fact I have an awesome BG stating that, and in the end, the stats are not really that good.
</p>
In fact I HATE things only done for stats, I play a Paladin in second edition for Gods sake, and they suck MAJOR.</p>paul halcott wrote:Xum wrote: Zurai wrote: Xum wrote:
Actually you can. Very much so.
No, no you can't. Monks are "any lawful" and barbarians are "any nonlawful". Since you can't have a lawful nonlawful character, you can't have a monk/barbarian. Monk Level X and when satisfied with it you change alignment to Neutral or Chaotic and add Barbarian Levels, no biggie there, you wouldn't even lose any monk abilities. I think its comments like this that were at the root of the previous post about...Xum2009-11-18T14:21:20ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?hogarthhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#742010-05-31T07:58:51Z2009-11-18T12:19:31Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">A Man In Black wrote:</div><blockquote> I am fully with KaeYoss on this point (which kinda scares me). Why is the martial arts class not even in the same ballpark as fighters or barbarians for tripping or wrestling with people? It makes no sense to me at all. </blockquote><p>Isn't it obvious? The monk's role isn't being the best tripper or grappler. Or being the best melee damage dealer. Or being the best at surviving melee attacks. Or being the best skill-monkey. Or being as good at moving around as a wizard.
<p>Uh...what was I talking about again?</p>
<p>Oh, right. The monk's role is threefold:
<br />
<ul><li>Run Really Fast.
<br />
<li>Fall Slowly.
<br />
<li>Have Good Saves.</ul></p>
<p>(I'm kidding....I hope.)</p>A Man In Black wrote:I am fully with KaeYoss on this point (which kinda scares me). Why is the martial arts class not even in the same ballpark as fighters or barbarians for tripping or wrestling with people? It makes no sense to me at all.
Isn't it obvious? The monk's role isn't being the best tripper or grappler. Or being the best melee damage dealer. Or being the best at surviving melee attacks. Or being the best skill-monkey. Or being as good at moving around as a wizard. Uh...what was I...hogarth2009-11-18T12:19:31ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?A Man In Black (RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#722010-05-31T07:58:51Z2009-11-18T07:55:48Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">GabrielMiller wrote:</div><blockquote>So your one of those players whose characters are just a sum of their magic items. How nice for you.</blockquote><p>Open your monster manual or bestiary. Look at CRs, then look at how many of those high-CR foes fly or cast spells.
<p>It's not "fighter versus monk" so much as "the monk's special ability shuts off when he puts on the magical item that lets him participate at all." And, again, if the monk is supposed to hunt spellcasters, spellcasters get to fly. From about level 9 on, all of them have long-duration flight.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>Every class has good and bad points. A monk is at a disadvantage when a DM runs like some computer game where the fighter is always in his armor, always has his sword, where unsteady ground doesnt exist, or when he hands out magic items that turns players into flying superheroes. </blockquote><p>Here's a little secret: when monks don't have their stuff, they die just as badly against level-appropriate foes. They just use different stuff. They have stat-boosters and AC-boosters and mobility tools all over the place, just because CR-appropriate opposition demands it.
<p>I also have to pick on this:</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>or when he hands out magic items that turns players into flying superheroes. </blockquote><p>If non-caster characters don't get those items to turn them into flying superheroes, they stop playing the game at all after a certain level. All-day flight is seriously a fifth-level spell; it's not even that high level.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">KaeYoss wrote:</div><blockquote><p>For many people, monks are those crazy kung-fu guys who will do all kinds of cool stunts to you, like taking your weapon from you, sweeping you off your feet, throwing you around, catching you in an inescapable lock, or push exactly the right pressure point to knock you out or paralyse you. </p>
<p>That stuff is handled in Pathfinder with combat manoeuvres, and for characters that want to be good at this sort of stuff, there's improved and greater (combat manoeuvre type) feats - the greater ones now being their own feats where they were part of the improved feats before. </blockquote><p>I am fully with KaeYoss on this point (which kinda scares me). Why is the martial arts class not even in the same ballpark as fighters or barbarians for tripping or wrestling with people? It makes no sense to me at all.GabrielMiller wrote:So your one of those players whose characters are just a sum of their magic items. How nice for you.
Open your monster manual or bestiary. Look at CRs, then look at how many of those high-CR foes fly or cast spells. It's not "fighter versus monk" so much as "the monk's special ability shuts off when he puts on the magical item that lets him participate at all." And, again, if the monk is supposed to hunt spellcasters, spellcasters get to fly. From about level 9 on, all of...A Man In Black (RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32)2009-11-18T07:55:48ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?wraithstrike (alias of concerro)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#712010-05-31T07:58:51Z2009-11-18T05:19:48Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote><p> ......By "away from the gaming table" I mean this discussion takes places in the conference room at Paizo where the staffers sit around writing rulebooks. It takes place in minds and computers of those folks who write up adventure paths and other adventures for us to buy. It takes place in the minds of DMs all over the world as they put together encounters for their players to engage in their next gaming session. And it takes place in the minds of players as they plan a character who is fun to play and reasonably able to handle the challenges he will face in an arduous adventuring career.... (and much wise stuffs)
</p>
</blockquote><p>+10Quote:......By "away from the gaming table" I mean this discussion takes places in the conference room at Paizo where the staffers sit around writing rulebooks. It takes place in minds and computers of those folks who write up adventure paths and other adventures for us to buy. It takes place in the minds of DMs all over the world as they put together encounters for their players to engage in their next gaming session. And it takes place in the minds of players as they plan a character who is...wraithstrike (alias of concerro)2009-11-18T05:19:48ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Monks - Why no greater combat bonus feats?Mirror, Mirrorhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k4x0&page=2?Monks-Why-no-greater-combat-bonus-feats#702010-05-31T07:58:51Z2009-11-18T04:40:21Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Treantmonk wrote:</div><blockquote> Way off topic - but difficult to qualify for ability scores was the joy of Unearthed Arcana's infamous "method 9" Paladin Cavaliers HO! </blockquote><p>Often refered to "Method 9 from outer space!" Ah, the good old days...Treantmonk wrote:Way off topic - but difficult to qualify for ability scores was the joy of Unearthed Arcana's infamous "method 9" Paladin Cavaliers HO!
Often refered to "Method 9 from outer space!" Ah, the good old days...Mirror, Mirror2009-11-18T04:40:21Z