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I just looked at the upcoming releases. They appear to be going to do "race" books. Welcome back to the moronic days of 2e/3e splat book blot. Great chance for WotC to inject some sensibility into D&D after 3.x or so I thought 4e would be. I thought that the multi-PHB/DMG/MM's were quite a good idea to keep things in check - one per year, simple. Then of course the "powers" books were released, but grouped so things still weren't too overloading - but heading that way. But idea of races books just annoys 3 kinds of excretment out of me. UUURRRGGGGHHHH!!!!
Yeh, yeh I know - they need to make money, yada, yada... Doesn't make it any less annoying however.
In 1e you needed a bag to carry your books, in 2e you needed a compact car, in 3e you needed a station wagon, and now in 4e it looks like a semi would be a good investment.
S.
Uh, link?
In 1e you needed a bag to carry your books, in 2e you needed a compact car, in 3e you needed a station wagon, and now in 4e it looks like a semi would be a good investment.
S.
Is it a bad time to introduce my 4e licensed, 6.0L diesel powered, Dungeons and Dragons, dual rear wheel, book hauling, monster truck complete with sleeping compartment for people who need to drive a long ways to find fellow gamers? It comes with fuzzy dice wrapped around the rear view and supple orc skin leather.
The rate with which WoTC is cranking out the new books would seem to equal, if not exceed 3.0/3.5 editions in pace. In the first 12 months of 4.0 (beginning with the release of the PH/DMG/MM) there were a total (counting the PH/DMG/MM) of 15 books. I think this is fairly obviously done for financial reasons, pure and simple, and that was the main reason for 4.0 edition in the first place. I anticipate that this will have the same unfortunate effect as did 3.5, of creating a game in which either the GM gives in to his players and allows the dozens of books and the hopelessly complicated rules that each addition injects into the game as they expand upon the existing system; or holds the line, and listens to his players wine on a weekly basis for more splat books. Stick with Pathfinder man.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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This link would be a useful, public display. There's a Dragonborn book coming out soonish, and a Tiefling book coming out next June. (It's mislabeled on the site, so it takes a little looking around to find.)
Honestly, what can you say about Tieflings that takes a whole book?
The rate with which WoTC is cranking out the new books would seem to equal, if not exceed 3.0/3.5 editions in pace. In the first 12 months of 4.0 (beginning with the release of the PH/DMG/MM) there were a total (counting the PH/DMG/MM) of 15 books. I think this is fairly obviously done for financial reasons, pure and simple, and that was the main reason for 4.0 edition in the first place. I anticipate that this will have the same unfortunate effect as did 3.5, of creating a game in which either the GM gives in to his players and allows the dozens of books and the hopelessly complicated rules that each addition injects into the game as they expand upon the existing system; or holds the line, and listens to his players wine on a weekly basis for more splat books. Stick with Pathfinder man.
Well, Wizards is being better about making the stuff they put out balanced with this edition at least. Still, I agree that if nothing else they're going to be getting into feat/power bloat soon if they don't slow down the release schedule a bit.
(A fan of Pathfinder and 4e please don't hit me)
EDIT: Oh, and now that I have a look at what they have to say about the books right now, I'm kind of worried about this line of books. Of course, right now we don't have any knowledge about what's actually in the books beyond "stuff about this race".
EDIT: Oh, and now that I have a look at what they have to say about the books right now, I'm kind of worried about this line of books. Of course, right now we don't have any knowledge about what's actually in the books beyond "stuff about this race".
Well, they are 32-page paperback books (I think softcover books like those for 3rd edition) that are about the same pricing (and size) as Paizo's Pathfinder Companion line.
Right now I'm imagining content much like Paizo's Elves of Golarion. The books should be big enough to give a good amount of information and mechanical options for each race without really running that much risk of running out of things to say. I would think that it would be divided between some flavor about the generic Dragonborn culture along with some feats, paragon paths, epic Destinies, equipment, rituals, and maybe even some racial specific attack or utility powers [Edit: And maybe I wouldn't have said maybe if I just read through the entire product description once and saw that it will apparently have powers] (Although I'm not sure how much of the book will be taken by each side).
I would certainly be more "concerned" if WotC was going 64 or more pages with this books, at which point, I would think that the overall quality for the price of the product would drop. (I can imagine a 32 page book about Tieflings, but not something much larger) While I don't see myself jumping up to buy the first few, they seem to be reasonably cheap buys for people who want more support for their favorite race.
EDIT: Oh, and now that I have a look at what they have to say about the books right now, I'm kind of worried about this line of books. Of course, right now we don't have any knowledge about what's actually in the books beyond "stuff about this race".Well, they are 32-page paperback books (I think softcover books like those for 3rd edition) that are about the same pricing (and size) as Paizo's Pathfinder Companion line.
Thanks, I missed that somehow. This suddenly seems much better.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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It will be interesting to see how well an "eladrin" book will do. When you do an elf book, you might imagine people other than the hard core checking it out because they like elves. But I'm not sure much of anyone outside of die-harders know what an eladrin is, so I'd expect it to be one of the last books that they do. Should be interesting to watch.
Thanks, I missed that somehow. This suddenly seems much better.EDIT: Oh, and now that I have a look at what they have to say about the books right now, I'm kind of worried about this line of books. Of course, right now we don't have any knowledge about what's actually in the books beyond "stuff about this race".Well, they are 32-page paperback books (I think softcover books like those for 3rd edition) that are about the same pricing (and size) as Paizo's Pathfinder Companion line.
Yeah, it makes some sense to expect that, as it has been a pretty long while (at least, I think it has) since WotC made a small book like this. Even the "Wizards Presents" books back right before 4e was released were 96 pages each (that or Amazon now has free shipping on lies).
Even looking back on my bookshelf to Defenders of the Faith I see that it was 96 pages. I'm not even sure when the last time WotC did something close to this size (aside from adventures).
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It will be interesting to see how well an "eladrin" book will do. When you do an elf book, you might imagine people other than the hard core checking it out because they like elves. But I'm not sure much of anyone outside of die-harders know what an eladrin is, so I'd expect it to be one of the last books that they do. Should be interesting to watch.
How to gauge the release date of 5e:
months past the release date of the eladrin book.
Even looking back on my bookshelf to Defenders of the Faith I see that it was 96 pages. I'm not even sure when the last time WotC did something close to this size.
Well, the "books" they released to promote 4e were about that size. (Races & Classes and World & Monsters, if I remember the title of them correctly). EDIT: Oh, wait, you said they were longer than that. Well, it's been a while since I read them, what can I say? (Why did I buy those...)
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And next to the Book o' Tieflings is:
D&D Player's Strategy Guide
One hundred and sixty pages of D&D hotness!
The D&D Player's Strategy Guide is aimed at D&D players who crave the envy of their gamer peers. If you want a character that’s jaw-droppingly cool, this book is for you. It provides tips and tricks for optimizing your D&D characters—to make them more awesome and fun to play at the game table.
The single redeeming feature of that description is that they didn't misspell the word "cool".
Even looking back on my bookshelf to Defenders of the Faith I see that it was 96 pages. I'm not even sure when the last time WotC did something close to this size.Well, the "books" they released to promote 4e were about that size. (Races & Classes and World & Monsters, if I remember the title of them correctly). EDIT: Oh, wait, you said they were longer than that. Well, it's been a while since I read them, what can I say? (Why did I buy those...)
Yeah, when I was looking for them online just now, I was about to say that the last time they did a book this small were those books.
It will be interesting to see how well an "eladrin" book will do. When you do an elf book, you might imagine people other than the hard core checking it out because they like elves. But I'm not sure much of anyone outside of die-harders know what an eladrin is, so I'd expect it to be one of the last books that they do. Should be interesting to watch.
Yeah. I expect that aside from people that really now, that the Eladrin book would really benefit from people seeing the cover and become interested in it for the elf-like characters on the front. Overall, I would assume that largely the same group that would buy the Elf book, would be interested in the material in the Eladrin book.
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And next to the Book o' Tieflings is:
The single redeeming feature of that description is that they didn't misspell the word "cool".D&D Player's Strategy Guide
One hundred and sixty pages of D&D hotness!
The D&D Player's Strategy Guide is aimed at D&D players who crave the envy of their gamer peers. If you want a character that’s jaw-droppingly cool, this book is for you. It provides tips and tricks for optimizing your D&D characters—to make them more awesome and fun to play at the game table.
If you could see me now I'm actually sobbing. Remember boys and girls we can vote NO to this sort of publication by NOT buying it. If you really, really want this book just pick it up in the bargin a year later for $1.95...
Someone needs to write "The D&D Buyers Guide" - learn how to spot mass marketed writers dribble, variations on a theme CAN be boring, using lint as a 'dazed' markers, and loads of other helpful hints. 346 pages, hardcover - $89.95 (June 2013)
Keep the gamers at WotC and loose the accountants, 4e isn't bad (in fact I like it - as a player) but those are accountants are making sure it may become so.
Was there anything so wrong with one PHB/DMG/MM per year?
S.
Well, I'm a lone voice in the wilderness, but I'm looking forward to the race splat books. I'm a mutant in the sense that I have six toes on my left foot and that I actually like splat books.
The D&D Player's Strategy Guide, on the other hand, makes me a bit of a sad mutant.
Well, I'm a lone voice in the wilderness, but I'm looking forward to the race splat books. I'm a mutant in the sense that I have six toes on my left foot and that I actually like splat books.
The D&D Player's Strategy Guide, on the other hand, makes me a bit of a sad mutant.
Hey, I only didn't like them when I thought they were full size $30 books. This, this is just fine and dandy.
I have to agree with the Strategy Guide, though. I just wish we lived in a world where no one needed that. Heck, we probably already do.
Was there anything so wrong with one PHB/DMG/MM per year?
I would think that from WotC's point of view that would be an unstable situation. It believe is much better for them (that part of the company, product quality, and developer health) for D&D to be getting paid on a monthly basis, rather than just three times in a year.
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Well, I'm a lone voice in the wilderness, but I'm looking forward to the race splat books. I'm a mutant in the sense that I have six toes on my left foot and that I actually like splat books.
The D&D Player's Strategy Guide, on the other hand, makes me a bit of a sad mutant.
I'm interested to know if these "splat books" will be filled with interesting background material (in which case I'll eat my electronic words) or just packed with enless variations ad nauseum on powers and abilities? I would like to know more about say Eldarin society, customs, holidays, beliefs, etc rather than their are 12 types all differing by where a certain +1 goes.
That is my fear for these books. We have enough rules with one PHB per year (and now the powers books) - let's have somethings to feed the imagination rather than the statistical calculator.
S.
I have to agree with the Strategy Guide, though. I just wish we lived in a world where no one needed that. Heck, we probably already do.
When I first heard about that book, I thought it was a neat idea (although that description off the product page right now gives implications that I was a bit mistaken on just how much focus of the book was where), but I think it is set to be too large for what I was thinking of it as, or what I see it as now.
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Was there anything so wrong with one PHB/DMG/MM per year?I would think that from WotC's point of view that would be an unstable situation. It believe is much better for them (that part of the company, product quality, and developer health) for D&D to be getting paid on a monthly basis, rather than just three times in a year.
I understand what you mean and you are completely right that a "monthly" release sure beats 3 times a year only. And how exactly do you audit for when the monthly releases are more driven by $$$ than by quality game adding material? This sort of approach sunk 2e and 3e. Mistakes are only mistakes when you repeat them. I was hoping WotC may have had another model in mind when they developed 4e. I'm not an accountant so perhaps I speak out of ingorance and this IS the way you have to do things in the publishing/gaming area?
S.
The blurb for the Dragonborn book indicates both fluff and crunch are included, but it's hard to know what to make of that. Perhaps we should resume this conversation Jan. 19? (Or if and when they start excerpting it in Dragon)
Personally, I'm hoping for some of both. Debating the book's implications for Wizards and 4E seems premature, however, as it's a new product type with very little available information.
I'm interested to know if these "splat books" will be filled with interesting background material (in which case I'll eat my electronic words) or just packed with enless variations ad nauseum on powers and abilities? I would like to know more about say Eldarin society, customs, holidays, beliefs, etc rather than their are 12 types all differing by where a certain +1 goes.
Back in the early days of 4e I remember reading an "Ecology of the Dragonborn" article on online Dragon. Glancing quickly back, I would say that it was 10 pages, with almost 2 pages of mechanics (a page of feats, then a page of Dragonborn stat blocks), about a page talking about creating the Dragonborn from the game designer's perspective, with the rest falling into art (if forced, I would guess this took about two pages worth of room) and background on the Dragonborn (*Does a little math* Half the article I guess?).
Barring anything else, this is what I would be what I would look at for the approximate content ratio for the Races books. About half on background material and a little bit less than half on mechanics and such.
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The blurb for the Dragonborn book indicates both fluff and crunch are included, but it's hard to know what to make of that. Perhaps we should resume this conversation Jan. 19? (Or if and when they start excerpting it in Dragon)
Personally, I'm hoping for some of both. Debating the book's implications for Wizards and 4E seems premature, however, as it's a new product type with very little available information.
Agreed, it was a knee-jerk reaction. However even with the "crunch" we currently have in 4e you almost need cybernetic implant to make a character. How many books/mags/downloads currently do you have to troll through to make a character? The character gen. is really the only way to make a character and be sure your viewing all of your options (mechanically speaking). Not saying options aren't good, just that too may options can be bad.
S.
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Barring anything else, this is what I would be what I would look at for the approximate content ratio for the Races books. About half on background material and a little bit less than half on mechanics and such.
That is what I'm afraid of. Let's say 96 pages softbound. That would be 48 pages of mechanics! For the love of the gods of maths why?! Surely the folks from the original "Products of the Imagintion" can fill 90 pages of history, art, religion, things that bring Dragonborn alive and don't just make them an appropriate race choice due to stat bonuses. I'm being kind allowing them 6 pages of "crunch", enough for 3 complete variations on Dragonborn's (assuming the 2 page spread layout from the PHB's).
Do that and I'm 100% for WotC (now to quote Braveheart) "do it not, and everyone of your books will die here today" - FREEDOM!!!!!!!!
S.
Agreed, it was a knee-jerk reaction. However even with the "crunch" we currently have in 4e you almost need cybernetic implant to make a character. How many books/mags/downloads currently do you have to troll through to make a character? The character gen. is really the only way to make a character and be sure your viewing all of your options (mechanically speaking). Not saying options aren't good, just that too may options can be bad.
S.
I disagree with the last point (except for the constant expansion almost inevitably leading to at least some degree of power creep), but that's a personal preference. I'm an old GURPS hand -- the classic Collectible Roleplaying Game -- and had all the Rolemaster Companions.
I do agree that the result makes the Character Builder (or at least Compendium) nearly indispensable for those who want access to all the options. A la carte DDI would help that situation a great deal, but at least they've made dipping in every few months to update CB a reasonably affordable solution.
My main problem with the current model is the lack of electronic options for the books. I'm a laptop gamer.
That is what I'm afraid of. Let's say 96 pages softbound. That would be 48 pages of mechanics! For the love of the gods of maths why?! Surely the folks from the original "Products of the Imagintion" can fill 90 pages of history, art, religion, things that bring Dragonborn alive and don't just make them an appropriate race choice due to stat bonuses. I'm being kind allowing them 6 pages of "crunch", enough for 3 complete variations on Dragonborn's (assuming the 2 page spread layout from the PHB's).
Do that and I'm 100% for WotC (now to quote Braveheart) "do it not, and everyone of your books will die here today" - FREEDOM!!!!!!!!
S.
Didn't he say earlier that they were going to be about 32 pages? I mean, 16 pages of crunch only seems a bit too much, and 50% crunch is probably a high estimate.
Didn't he say earlier that they were going to be about 32 pages? I mean, 16 pages of crunch only seems a bit too much, and 50% crunch is probably a high estimate.
32 pages, paperback, US$9.95, Jan. 2010.
While I'm here, here is the link to the Tiefling book page for June. Disregard the title.
Didn't he say earlier that they were going to be about 32 pages? I mean, 16 pages of crunch only seems a bit too much, and 50% crunch is probably a high estimate.
Yeah. 32 pages based on the numbers I saw on the product pages.
The 50% crunch would be my high (and pulled out of nowhere) estimate. The only reason it was that high was the number of things the product page said the book would include, so I was thinking a few pages of paragon paths, a few pages of epic destinies, a few for powers, then for feats. That would quickly eat into the pages. I would say the minimum I would expect though would be 10 pages for these options, but since I can't recall WotC doing anything on this scale, that is just another number pulled out of nowhere.
If you could see me now I'm actually sobbing. Remember boys and girls we can vote NO to this sort of publication by NOT buying it. If you really, really want this book just pick it up in the bargin a year later for $1.95...
Gosh...a character-building aid. Where have I seen something like that before? It's almost as if...oh, wait! They did print one for the previous edition!
A character-building aid isn't new. It's not like some WotC exec got up and said, "Hey, I know a new way to squeeze money out of our customers!" This one's been around for nearly a decade.
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Didn't he say earlier that they were going to be about 32 pages? I mean, 16 pages of crunch only seems a bit too much, and 50% crunch is probably a high estimate.Yeah. 32 pages based on the numbers I saw on the product pages.
The 50% crunch would be my high (and pulled out of nowhere) estimate. The only reason it was that high was the number of things the product page said the book would include, so I was thinking a few pages of paragon paths, a few pages of epic destinies, a few for powers, then for feats. That would quickly eat into the pages. I would say the minimum I would expect though would be 10 pages for these options, but since I can't recall WotC doing anything on this scale, that is just another number pulled out of nowhere.
That's cool. 32 pages seems a little short then given the list of things they would like to include I agree. Bye, bye fluff I would say to make room for the crunch...
That's cool. 32 pages seems a little short then given the list of things they would like to include I agree. Bye, bye fluff I would say to make room for the crunch...
Well, assuming 50% crunch, you still get at least a 1:1 Fluff to $ ratio.
Didn't he say earlier that they were going to be about 32 pages? I mean, 16 pages of crunch only seems a bit too much, and 50% crunch is probably a high estimate.Yeah. 32 pages based on the numbers I saw on the product pages.
The 50% crunch would be my high (and pulled out of nowhere) estimate. The only reason it was that high was the number of things the product page said the book would include, so I was thinking a few pages of paragon paths, a few pages of epic destinies, a few for powers, then for feats. That would quickly eat into the pages. I would say the minimum I would expect though would be 10 pages for these options, but since I can't recall WotC doing anything on this scale, that is just another number pulled out of nowhere.
I don't know...I'm guessing two or three paragon paths, and one or two epic destinies. PPs tend to take up a page, and EDs usually take one or two, so we'll say 5 pages for those. I don't know how they'll include extra powers, unless those powers are part of the PPs and EDs. I don't see a single race's new feats taking up more than two or three pages.
I'm going to guess 8 pages of crunch, as an initial prediction. It'll be interesting to see the actual amount, though. Personally, I'd like a little more than that, but I don't know if they want to design that many rules elements that will only see use by a specific class.
As another point, am I the only person who sees no real issue with adding crunch? I mean, to begin with, it's not like new crunch is overriding old crunch. You don't have to deal with all the new stuff if you don't want to. The people who are keen on making use of all the options available to them are probably cool with sifting through all the available options. Which brings me to my second point: the current options are nothing compared to 3.5 near the end. The Compendium and Character Builder make choosing from and incorporating these new options easier than it's ever been.
I'm not sure why certain books in the 4e line gets people bent out of shape. A 32-page book for each race? This doesn't sound crazy to me. Some history of the race, some backgrounds, some tips on playing, a few extra feats, a few paragon paths, and perhaps even an epic destiny or two - sounds good to me.
From my experience of 4e, extra options have not broken the game. Right now, I feel there are a ton of options with all the power books and such. I don't need to own them all, not as a player or DM. The basic rules remain the same. As a player, I only need the PHB. As a DM, I only need the DMG and MM and a chance to look over the player's powers. For as low as $10 a month, I can have access to almost everything published. Creating characters isn't a chore, but an interesting activity with several options that allow me to really individualize my character.
I see what people are saying; disaster struck in the past when too many options were made available. That doesn't mean it will happen again. History doesn't always repeat itself. My experience of the game thus far has not lead to these problems many people have concerns over.
If you could see me now I'm actually sobbing. Remember boys and girls we can vote NO to this sort of publication by NOT buying it. If you really, really want this book just pick it up in the bargin a year later for $1.95...Gosh...a character-building aid. Where have I seen something like that before? It's almost as if...oh, wait! They did print one for the previous edition!
A character-building aid isn't new. It's not like some WotC exec got up and said, "Hey, I know a new way to squeeze money out of our customers!" This one's been around for nearly a decade.
To be honest, while both serve as character building aids, from the descriptions so far, I would have to say that the two books seem to be quite different in scale and in subject. While the Hero Builder's Guidebook did have some advice on what ability scores to choose or what feats to select, the bulk of it focused on background and personality of the character (mostly through random tables and multiple choice tests).
D&D Player's Strategy Guide however, from the very brief descriptions that I've seen appears to have it's focus be largely on optimizing your character (and apparently some tips and tricks to get better use out of the DDI tools?). While I wouldn't say that is a necessarily bad thing, I don't think one should descibe it as the same as Hero Builder's Handbook.
I with my player hat on actually really like this style of product. Three of my top ten faverate RPG books of all time fall into this catagory, i.e. the revised Tradition books for euthanitos, cult of ecstacy and the hollow ones for mage: the ascention.
If you provide a cool narrative, shed loads of detail about the lives and world of the group, interesting little mechanical addons and a host of character idea's and you can produce one of the most interesting character aids possible.
The problem is, that wizards of the coast have intentionally been avoiding any kind of deep exploration of settings. This book almost certainly wont be the next tradbook euthanitos. It won't be a good flowing story, in which you learn about the traditions, culture and psychology of the dragonborn by observing well written scenes from there lives. In short, i would not be supprised if it suffered from WotC in ability to right setting these days.
I am certain it will provide some cool magic items, feats, prestige paths, epic destinies and other mechanics, you know, the stuff WotC is doing pretty well at the momment, but meh...
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Well i don't play or follow 4e all that closely. But I don't see why race books are a problem. I guess it depend on how they are done aka how much crunch to fluff. Nor do i know how much rules bloat their is. Which the OP seems to indicate is a lot.
But I am in the camp of, I would rather have more books. Covering more niche area's than not enough. That was one of the big reasons I liked 3e and OGL. With all the companies doing it, odds where at least one if not more companies would cover a topic I was interested in.
So I am all for options even ones I don't care for, cause I know someone out their is likely to like it. So more power to them and it increases the chance of things getting made I like later.
Hopefully that makes sense, i just woke up.
If you could see me now I'm actually sobbing. Remember boys and girls we can vote NO to this sort of publication by NOT buying it. If you really, really want this book just pick it up in the bargin a year later for $1.95...Gosh...a character-building aid. Where have I seen something like that before? It's almost as if...oh, wait! They did print one for the previous edition!
A character-building aid isn't new. It's not like some WotC exec got up and said, "Hey, I know a new way to squeeze money out of our customers!" This one's been around for nearly a decade.
It was a bad idea then as well.
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Ummm....
I am such a Paizo fanboy, but I am seeing some hypocritical talk here.
Paizo is tossing out race books too. Yes Paizo seems to focus more on adventure paths, stand-alone adventures, society stuff and all that but arguably the adventure paths have feats, classes, equipment, etc. that all add tons of stuff to the game. And they are hitting with race books and guide to XXX area books. If anything Paizo has a more ambitious publishing schedule than WOTC. It's just that they aren't bloating the rules as much, they are smothering the adventure arena.
I mean come on, some people like things, some don't. If you don't like it then ignore it instead of pointing a finger and attacking.
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I have to confess to being somewhat intrigued by the prospect of these books. I'm just wondering if they will be books for a few choice races or all the playable races (That would make for a lot of books) Also I would be curious about the fluff/crunch ratio a rules heavy book would be no use to me since I don't play 4e However a book with a decent amount of race background (especially for something like say shifters) would be of great use.
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I've noticed that I'm spending less on D&D books with 4th edition than I was with 3rd. That's probably because, as a player, I am benefitting from the more focused approach WotC has been taken, segregating player and DM-focused books.
I've been buying the PHBs and Power series. I probably won't buy all of these, since I don't get into race books as much as class-oriented books, but I might pick up one or two if they seem like they would be useful for a character I am playing, and I'm glad they're smaller and less expensive.
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Ummm....
I am such a Paizo fanboy, but I am seeing some hypocritical talk here.
Paizo is tossing out race books too. Yes Paizo seems to focus more on adventure paths, stand-alone adventures, society stuff and all that but arguably the adventure paths have feats, classes, equipment, etc. that all add tons of stuff to the game. And they are hitting with race books and guide to XXX area books. If anything Paizo has a more ambitious publishing schedule than WOTC. It's just that they aren't bloating the rules as much, they are smothering the adventure arena.I mean come on, some people like things, some don't. If you don't like it then ignore it instead of pointing a finger and attacking.
After the original poster realized the race books are more or less booklets of the same size the paizo race books are, he seemed to be o.k. with, and it seems, most others who reacted with "oh no, more books in shorter time" accepted that as well. All a missunderstanding fueled by the fear to see the "races of..." Books of 3.5 revamped for 4th editionn
After the original poster realized the race books are more or less booklets of the same size the paizo race books are, he seemed to be o.k. with, and it seems, most others who reacted with "oh no, more books in shorter time" accepted that as well. All a missunderstanding fueled by the fear to see the "races of..." Books of 3.5 revamped for 4th editionn
I liked the "Races Of __" books for the most part, I just didn't want to see them try to fill a book that size with only one race.
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After the original poster realized the race books are more or less booklets of the same size the paizo race books are, he seemed to be o.k. with, and it seems
Agreed.
To Scott, please don't think I'm saying 4e bad 3e good - 3e = bad, 2e = bad (the start of the splat book rot).
Wouldn't a suppliment with marriage rituals, history, music, art, etc be a greater tool for players and DM's making a "race"? Players can add to their characters background and DM's can dream up adventure hooks. Seeing a 5 page spread of Paragon Paths or the like does nothing to stir the imgination, they only give you a "when I grow up".
I think that the "race" books for Middle Earth RPG from I.C.E. are a great model to work from. Will WotC, I really doubt it. It would seem (from reading posts on the WotC forums) that people are more interested in something giving you 1 extra square shift than really what it is to be a Dragonborn. Optimising a character I fail to see equates to having a character concept other than "in combat I can/will". 3e became this type of game - the forums are full of this stuff.
I fully accept that people have other opinions, but I play this game too so I don't see mine is any less valid when it comes to the direction we would like to see OUR hobby go in.
Cheers,
S.
***Extremely silly example*** - with designers notes (DN:)
New race "Alves" or "Alfs"
Alfs a Feyfolk who live in the Feywood. (DN: a wood in which Feyfolk live - about the size of a medium sized cricket pitch)
Alfs have +2 to any one stat and -2 to another (DN: 6 stats, 5 variations per single placement of +2 equals 30 sub-races of Alf)
Examples of Alf sub-races
Bush Alf [+2 STR, -2 CHA] (DN: Working all day in the bush makes them strong, but having dirty fingernails reduces their charisma)
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Encounter Power: Trim Hedge
"That hedge could do with a trim!"
Effect: Using a bow (or weed whacker) the Bush Alf may remove any vegetation based cover from opponents. This effect last until the hedge grows back and as such only needs to be considered in extremely long combats (DN: Given the length of some 4e combat this SHOULD be considered in combat).
Shrub Alf [+2 DEX, -2 CON] (DN: Nimble fingers for shrub shaping, but not the toughest work hence the lower constituation)
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Encounter Power: BONZAI!
"What's my mom doing here?!"
Effect: A shrub can be shaped to look exactly like an attacking monsters mother. The monster suffers from confusion (save ends).
Road Alf [+2 CHA, -2 WIS] (DN: Slick city dweller with the accompanying wisdom...)
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Encounter Power: Road Rage
"It's frak'n green! The light is frak'n green! GO! GO!"
Effect: All monsters focus their attacks on the Road Alf, any attacks the Road Alf makes automatically hit.
See we can ALL make our own "splat books" based on the rules and guidelines already given to us!
I expect perhaps a job offer from WotC after they read this post. Keep an eye out for the "Alfs or Alves Racebooks" (yes one per sub-race, for 30 in total)!
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folks like Stefan simultaneously criticizing this for being an unnecessary product, and then criticizing it for not having enough content.
Think decafe - it may help?
I think that the idea of a Fluff based publication is a good one and one NOT previously explored well by WotC (aka 3e). I think that a Crunch based publication given the current volume of Crunch seems out of place. More Crunch DOES have an effect on the game. If you recall there were numerous posts about DM's restricting a players access to material is a bad thing. More Crunch DOES mean MORE work for the DM. A DM who is made aware at the gaming table of new ability A or B is at the mercy of these rules and ill-prepared. You suggest having your cake and eating it too me thinks.
S.