The Witch Request Thread


Advanced Player's Guide Playtest General Discussion

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Frerezar wrote:

It is necesary for the witch to have th old cauldron and dance with magic words type of spellcasting, however that seems more ritualystic casting than anything else.

So as I stted earlier in the pst, having them use some divine spellcasting through ritualystic means while having a limited acces acane spellcasting ability should do the trick.

That an of course a standart free brew potion feat.

Not a bad idea. Remember also the special curse mechanic, which may further eliminate the need for a lot of standard action spells.


Some things I'd like to see with a summoner:

--"Create a pet" system.
--Full spellcasting progression (ninth level spells).
--Focus on pet buffs, heals, and so on BUT with the capability to do other things in combat.

--Slightly weaker pet than the druid's animal companion; make up the power difference with cool pet abilities (such as breathing fire).

--d6 HD/half BAB (to differentiate it from the druid).


During the heyday of the witch hunters, witches were known for the following:

Witches had one or more familiars. The familiars were actually incarnate demon created from semen stolen by succubi. A witch's familiar would typically appear as a small animal with some form of abnormality, like strange fur or a human nose.

All witches had a witch's mark they fed the familiar their blood through.

Witches gained much of their power during the Sabbath, a dark, secret orgy of witches and demons.

Witchcraft was typically used for the following:
Learning forbidden secrets of nature
Seducing new recruits
Turning men into beasts
Influencing innocent peasants into sin
Inflicting infertility and impotence
Harming livestock
Disease
Summoning bad weather
Allowing demons to safely enter the bodies of humans
Instantly traveling great distances to secretly copulate with demons

Witchcraft wasn't exclusive to women, but it was much more common. Male witches were still called witches.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

BAB: +1/2
Good Saves: Will
Hit Dice: 1d6

Class Skills: Scary Social stuff (Bluff, Disguise, Intimidate), Magic Stuff (Spellcraft, Use Magic Device), Nature/Nurture stuff (Heal, Survival), Knowledge (arcana, history, local, nature, planes, religion), Wise Old Woman Stuff (Sense Motive, Perception).

4 + Int modifier.

Wizard weapons (club, dagger, crossbows, quarterstaff), no armor.

Three spellcasting "paths:"
Maiden (Charisma based)
Mother (Wisdom based)
Crone (Intelligence based)

Curses for combat (maybe 6 levels: 1, 4, 8, 12, 16, 20). Mostly giving out negative conditions (sickened, nauseated, stunned, etc.), with a few "flashier" effects (baleful polymorph, ranged disarm/trip/sunder/bullrush, ability penalties, damage, drain, etc.) Maybe as usable as a bard's performances.

Ritualistic skill-based incantations for utility effects, with the ability to Aid Another to help with the incantations, making covens a practical possiblity.

Powers based on familiar type (maybe at levels 2, 6, 10, 14, 18)
For example Bat (+3 to Fly).
2. Swift Fly for 1 round once per minute (requires broom focus).
6. Fly 3/day (requires broom focus)
10. Overland Flight 3/day (requires broom focus)
14. Mass Flight (polynorph allies into bats that can fly)
18. Dark Discorporation (like the warlock invocation)

Potent Potion Brewing at 9th level (4th level spells at 9th, 5th at 11th, 6th at 13th, 7th at 15th, 8th at 17th, 9th at 19th), using Use Magic Device and/or Craft alchemy like the warlock's Imbue Item ability.


From what I've seen here, you aren't going to be disappointed with the Witch class 4 Winds has come up with.


Interesting idea. I might make mother int and crone wis, and I might have the paths have a bigger effect on the class. Otherwise, I'd love to see that concept presented in the class.

The Exchange

When I think of a Witch or Warlock, in RPG terms, I think of a combat oriented arcane druid. Maybe not with all the wizard blasting spells, but defiantly with the utility spells and with near druidic shape shifting abilities.

What I don’t want to see is a WOTC warlock just updated to Pathfinder rules with another name. I did not like the old mechanic and don’t want to see it repeated.

I will repeat however a few things that have already been addressed.
No, to only females.
No, to only Evil.

I would agree if it was something different with the class though. Say no neutral characters on the law and chaos axis.
So you can be good, just not neutral good, you can be evil but no neutral evil and defiantly not true neutral. But hey that’s just me and I am sure a lot of other people would not like the mechanic especially if there is no fluff to go along with a why you can’t do that.

In fact that is what I want most of all. Fluff to go along with hard core mechanics, as in this is why “a witch is restricted to these weapons” or an “Oracle can not do X”, not just play balance as the deciding factor.


SmiloDan wrote:

And are you more likely to get Gummi Bear Juice from an alchemist or a witch?

not to nitpick too much, but i think you mean Gummy-berry juice :D

Gummy-bear juice probably just tastes like wet fur :P

man that was a neat show

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

I can't believe this thread is now in its third page and still, no one has asked, "Wait, witch request thread is this again?"


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Epic Meepo wrote:
I can't believe this thread is now in its third page and still, no one has asked, "Wait, witch request thread is this again?"

Are you a good witch or a bad witch?

I've been waiting for that one too.


MANDATORY "Which Witch is Which?" POST.

CARRY ON, CITIZENS.

Dark Archive

SmiloDan wrote:

Three spellcasting "paths:"

Maiden (Charisma based)
Mother (Wisdom based)
Crone (Intelligence based)

Curses for combat (maybe 6 levels: 1, 4, 8, 12, 16, 20). Mostly giving out negative conditions (sickened, nauseated, stunned, etc.), with a few "flashier" effects (baleful polymorph, ranged disarm/trip/sunder/bullrush, ability penalties, damage, drain, etc.) Maybe as usable as a bard's performances.

Ritualistic skill-based incantations for utility effects, with the ability to Aid Another to help with the incantations, making covens a practical possiblity.

These three seperate ideas are individually awesome.


I feel like a partycrasher, but I still think the witch should have been a sourcerous bloodline with abilities/spells tied to curses and familiars. I still do not see, after reading this thread, what could not have been implemented this way...

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Velderan wrote:
Interesting idea. I might make mother int and crone wis, and I might have the paths have a bigger effect on the class. Otherwise, I'd love to see that concept presented in the class.

I see the Mother aspect dealing with Heal, Perception (watching out for her children), Sense Motive, and Survival (tracking down her children).

I picture the Crone being good with Knowledge skills, Craft skills (alchemy and poisons, especially!), maybe Linguistics and Spellcraft too. Especially if Incantations are skill-based on Spellcraft, and hard enough you'll want 2 more coven members helping you out.

But that's just me.

I think the DC for the Incantations should be really high (like 20 + 5 per spell level), but with the ability to lower the DC by increasing the casting time. Aid Another would also be really useful. You can even train non-witches to help you (make the Fighter take a cross-class rank in Spellcraft just so he can help you out).

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

My experience definitely supports post-menopausal women (i.e. crones) being associated with Intelligence (reason, experience), and those of mothering age with Wisdom (instinct, perception).


For aligment they should be any non-lawful. I have noticed in all the fairytales witches hold a degree of impartialiaty and can be quite capricious whether good or evil. For the most part they lived on the fringe of society. Society usually wanted nothing to do with them.

Now with their abilities this gets tricky. I imagine they are something of a cross between spontaneous and non-sponataneous spellcasters. I can see them having certain powers the sorcerer has like bloodline powers and perhaps certain spell-like abilities, but at the same time they do have books where they keep their spells and rituals.

As far as class features go I would imagine they get brew potion as a first level class feature. In addition they should get the craft wonderous item feat at some point. One thing witches love doing is enchanting objects for good or for ill. Usually they create cursed objects to cause mischief.

Their spells can be tricky in the extreme. I have see witches all throughout literature use all kinds of magic from flashy evocations to very subtle enchantments. However, what really sticks out is there powers at curses and fortune telling and scrying. They also have the ability to break curses or alter their effects allowing some sort of escape clause.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Frostflame wrote:
For aligment they should be any non-lawful. I have noticed in all the fairytales witches hold a degree of impartialiaty and can be quite capricious whether good or evil.

"An harm ye none, do what ye will" may seem chaotic, until someone violates the "harm ye none" clause. And then we have what's called the Threefold Law. ;)

(Modern statements of the faith? Sure, but who cares? Still part of the mystique, which is what a D&D class is really about.)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Going back to the maiden/mother/crone thing and charisma/wisdom/intelligence thing, how about:

Charisma-based Curses
Wisdom-based Fortune-telling and divination powers
Intelligence-based skill-based spellcasting

That, combined with the 11 different types of familiars, gives 33 combinations of witch-types. 66 if you consider secondary-specialization in Curses, Fortune-telling, or Incantations.

I think the potion-brewing specialty might fit under a Familiar Power, possibly Raven (Ravens are often associated with cauldrons and creation in various mythoses).

Shadow Lodge

CunningMongoose wrote:
I feel like a partycrasher, but I still think the witch should have been a sourcerous bloodline with abilities/spells tied to curses and familiars. I still do not see, after reading this thread, what could not have been implemented this way...

+1 and I really don't like the Crone wise woman thing, either. It's done already, and really has little to do with "nonChristian" witch's. At most, maybe a minor subgroup.


I'm considering switching over to a witch in my game if the class is done right, and I think there's a lot of potential. But the most recent press release from paizo make me skeptical....

"A versatile caster who gains her spells from the eldritch whispers of her familiar and casts potent hexes to aid allies and vex foes."

I definitely think they should have familiars, but I don't like the idea of familiars being the actual source of a witch's power. What if I want to create a witch that doesn't have a familiar? Or what if I think the source of her power should be a pact she made with a devil (historically, many people thought that's how witches acquired their power). I want options.

If I was making the class, I would give the witch extra powers in a similar way that rogues can pick talents. They're would be a long list of potential powers so witch players could pick their own powers as they desire without being confined to someone else's idea of what a witch is. Maybe there could be a power tree for each category so that a witch could either specialize in a just a few kinds of abilities, or take low-level powers from every category. I think such trees could be...

Curses and Hexes
Disease and Poison
Potions
Cauldron Casting
Enhanced Familiar
Polymorphing
Enchantment

The spell list I imagined being a predetermined list of druid and wizard/sorcerer spells with the occasional bonus spell that can be taken from either list (thus allowing people to pick new spells as they come out). To further make up for the limited spell list, perhaps she could have an ability that lets her make potions from spells not on her spell list at extra cost.

There's a lot of potential to make a really interesting class here, but I can't see myself playing a witch that's too dependent on her familiar. Perhaps familiars could be just one of many possible sources for a witch's power?


I like the witch from Arcanna Evolved. She's a simple straight-forward class with 5 paths; the Winter Witch was my favorite.

I loved Green Ronin too; the problem with the splat-books is that I could fall asleep before I read everything my character could do. No character class or race takes 30+ pages in any player's handbook.


Ok, so from what I know the witch will have a curse mechanic similar to the hexblade? That sounds pretty rad, honestly.

What else do we *know*, though? Is it a full caster (sorcerer), a supplement caster (bard), or a "yes I can cast spells, damnit" caster (ranger)? We know that they'll draw from both the arcane and divine lists, which seems to suggest it'll be druid/sorcerer, much like the bard is cleric/sorcerer.

The real question, though, is this: are the arcane or divine? Are our witches going to be subject to spell failure? What stat will they cast from? If they focus on less flashy, heavy buff/debuff spells should they have medium BAB & a d8 hit die? Is the familiar mechanic that so many people are calling for going to have any combat potential, or will it be another wizard's familiar?


My predictions:

Full arcane caster, with a spell list that's limited to certain schools of magic but can take from any class's spell list. Or, at the very least, the sorc/wiz and druid lists.
I'm guessing they'll be another Charisma caster, but that's a pure WAG.
I'm betting they'll still be poor BAB.
I doubt the familiars will be combat monsters. More likely they'll be the Witch's version of Sorcerer bloodlines or Cavalier Orders.


The Witch class in 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming's Paths of Power is definitely not meant for melee combat, but they have access to some very potent spells. Generally, though, their magic is more personal and subtle than regular casters, and in fact there's an extended list of Witch spells, in the same vein as there are Druid Spells or Ranger spells. It is a Divine Caster class, essentially. There are a number of orientations to choose from depending on the kind of which you want to play.


Lord Gadigan wrote:
I'd like for there to be general guidelines for what sorts of spells should be added to the Witch spell list in future releases, such as "All arcane spells from schools X and Y, and all divine spells from school Z at the same level as Wizards and Clerics, but all from schools L and M at one level higher" or something of the sort. This will prevent either having to add the level the Witch learns spells at into all new spell descriptions

This!

I foresee using witches a LOT, and I'd love some simple rules on expanding their spell list from other sources.


I'd be interested in seeing a comparison of the Paths of Power witch, and the APG witch beta.

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