Salamander Attack Questions (Grab / Tail Slap)


Rules Questions

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Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Got some questions about Salamanders attacking.

First of all, did medium-size Salamanders really lose 2 size categories on their grab ability? (3.5 was large size, Pathfinder appears to be small size).

Second question pertains to the Tail Slap:
Assume a Salamander spends a single standard action hitting an opponent with Tail Slap. According to Table 3-1 (Bestiary pg. 302), that attack is a Secondary Attack, and therefore gets BAB-5 to hit and 1/2*STR to damage.
However, according to that same page:

Pathfinder Bestiary wrote:
If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on attack rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple [natural?] attacks but only takes one.

As such, the Salamander has only one natural attack (Tail Slap), and I'm not sure if the spear attack applies to the bold section above. If it does, what happens when the Salamander drops his spear and therefore only has his unarmed attack(s)? Do they apply to the bold text above? This is made more confusing by the following text later on:

Pathfinder Bestiary wrote:
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.

Which means that the Salamander's full attack entry is pretty much useless for this discussion.

So when a Salamander does a Tail Slap as a standard action, is it:
A Primary Attack (BAB to hit, STR to damage)
A Secondary Attack (BAB-5 to hit, 1/2*STR to damage)
A Single Primary Attack (BAB to hit, 1-1/2*STR to damage)

Any help is appreciated.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I could really use some help on this.


Turey wrote:
I could really use some help on this.

Don't know if i have it right but here it goes:

Tail attack is always a secondary attack, regardless of the fact that it is made as a single standard attack or part of a full attack or in combination with or without a weapon attack.

If the salamander drops his weapon, he can make an unarmed attack as a primary attack at full BAB and STR-bonus (but not at BAB and 1-1/2 STR-bonus because he also has the tail slab attack - also see below).

The text you are referring:

Quote:
This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one.

I interpret as follows:

The creature can make two or more attacks and thus no full BAB and no 1-1/2 STR. "Takes one" refers to the creature ony making one single attack from among his multiple attacks, such as when only be able to take a standard action.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

The salamander has hands (ie a slam) as its primary natural weapon.

Pathfinder Beasiary p302
"Some fey, humanoids, monstrous humanoids, and outsiders do not possess natural attacks. These creatures can make unarmed strikes, but treat them as weapons for the purpose of determining attack bonuses, and they must use the two-weapon fighting rules when making attacks with both hands. See Table 3–1 for typical damage values for natural attacks by creature size."

Now I cannot find this planly quoted in the Pathfinder Beastiary as it is in the Monster Manual 3.5 (p6 under Attack). Nothing in the Pathfinder system text leads me to believe its changed however. The tailslap is still classified as a secondary attack and thus it strikes at BAB-5, .5*Str to Damage.

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