Mirror Image and grapple

[cthulhu_waits]

I'm foreseeing a situation in my game tomorrow night where a glabrezu will be grappling a character and will also have mirror image up. I can't find anything in the rules to address the situation, so here is my question: does being grappled by a creature with mirror image let you automatically tell the difference between the real creature and it's images?

Nothing in the rules says it would, but common sense suggests that you would be able to attack the creature grappling you (with a light weapon at -4) because it's obvious which one is real, it's the one holding onto you.

Thoughts?

[spalding]

Nope they all look like they are grappling the target... possibly from multiple directions and places...

Picture it like this: The glabrezu looks like he is running around grappling the character from multiple angles all at once, at the same time.

[roguerouge]

So it would look like a Cubist painting?

[Jal Dorak]

My DM ruling would be that any grappled creature is treated as being an object and this it appears that there are 1d4+4 glabrezi grappling 1d4+4 of the PC.

The PC could do something clever to work around this, like drop an object in their square, but that's something to encourage.

[cthulhu_waits]

Abraham spalding wrote:

Nope they all look like they are grappling the target... possibly from multiple directions and places...

Picture it like this: The glabrezu looks like he is running around grappling the character from multiple angles all at once, at the same time.

But you could feel which one is real, right? That's the issue I keep coming back to, but I want to make sure I'm not being too soft on my players.

[Jal Dorak]

Now I see what you were getting at. The grappled character would definitely know which one was the real one.

[Arnwyn]

I would rule that if you're actually in the middle of a grapple, those who are grappled won't be affected by mirror image.

But, by RAW, if you're making an attack roll (even in a grapple), mirror image comes into play.

[Rezdave]

cthulhu_waits wrote:

does being grappled by a creature with mirror image let you automatically tell the difference between the real creature and it's images

BEING grappled I would say "Yes", the character engaged in the grapple is able to tell. However, any character wishing to initiate or join the grapple would have to choose and attack mirrored targets at random until finding the real one.

FWIW,

Rez

P.S. I agree RAW is unclear on this point, but Logic would seem to learn towards the above interpretation.

EDIT - I would not rule that a grappled character is duplicated by his opponent's spell as if he was an object, but rather that it appears that he is being swarmed by a mass of opponents when viewed from those outside the grapple.

[Abraham spalding]

I was kind of thinking the person in the grapple would think that each person was the one grappling him... however I'm not too sure one way or the other... logic an science get a bit fuzzy around magic for some reason.

[Dragonchess Player]

cthulhu_waits wrote:

Abraham spalding wrote:

Nope they all look like they are grappling the target... possibly from multiple directions and places...

Picture it like this: The glabrezu looks like he is running around grappling the character from multiple angles all at once, at the same time.

But you could feel which one is real, right? That's the issue I keep coming back to, but I want to make sure I'm not being too soft on my players.

Not really. You can feel where the glabrezu is grabbing you, but you can't tell where the glabrezu's body is. Since D&D 3.5 doesn't have general rules on attacking specific body locations, you are still subject to the effects of the mirror image (unless the character happens to be a grimlock or closes their eyes and uses Blind-Fight).

If the character were the one grappling the glabrezu, then they could tell which image was real.

[roguerouge]

Not sure if this helps, but it is a figment:

SRD wrote:

A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. (It is not a personalized mental impression.) Figments cannot make something seem to be something else. A figment that includes audible effects cannot duplicate intelligible speech unless the spell description specifically says it can. If intelligible speech is possible, it must be in a language you can speak. If you try to duplicate a language you cannot speak, the image produces gibberish. Likewise, you cannot make a visual copy of something unless you know what it looks like.

Because figments and glamers (see below) are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. They cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding or delaying foes, but useless for attacking them directly.

[cthulhu_waits]

Thanks for all the help, guys. As it happened the issue didn't come up in the game because the glabrezu didn't the PC on grapple checks, but it's still a good thing to have figured out for when it does come up.

I'm going with the ruling that the grappled creature can tell the difference between the real creature and the images, but other PC's and creatures not in the grapple still have to contend with the images.

Oh and for what it's worth, Quicken Spell-Like Ability (Mirror Image) is a wonderful feat for glabrezus! Or anything else that qualifies...

[Repairman Jack]

As a DM, I would rule that the initial touch attack or whatever kind of attack initiates the grapple, suffers from the same chance to hit an illusion as any other hit.

But once hit, the grappler would be able to tell the grapplee by sense of touch. I believe Mirror Image only emulates sight and sound.