RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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They don't randomly throw in material in there, you know: The articles support the adventure, and the path. It's not "Adventure in Irrisen, Mwangi Gazetteer, Native's Guide to the People of Ustalav, and the Thouseand Gods of Vudra."Incorrect. Nowadays they are much better about it, but for quite some time there was a fair amount of extraneous material not germane to the given AP.
I disagree.
PF#1: "This volume of Pathfinder also includes extensive details on the town of Sandpoint, several new monsters, and information on the mysterious ancient empire of Thassilon, whose cruel and despotic rulers may not be as dead as history would have us believe." <-- All pretty relevant.
PF#2: "This volume of Pathfinder includes a detailed description of the city of Magnimar, several new monsters, and a detailed description of the goddess of dreams and travel, Desna, along with notes on her faithful." <-- seeing we are going to Magnimar, this is relevant again. Perhaps, Desna was less necessary.
PF#3: "This volume of Pathfinder also features rules for maintaining and running a castle, a gazetteer of the wilderness region featured in the Adventure Path, and introduces several new monsters perfect for plaguing PCs who tread too far into these haunted mountains." I recall some complaints about running a castle, but, as the PCs, at the end of the adventure, were going to have a chance to run a castle for a bit, it didn't seem that extraneous.
PF#4: "This volume of Pathfinder also includes additional rules and information on the stone giant race, details on the dragons of the Pathfinder Chronicles campaign setting, and several new monsters native to the rugged badlands of the stone giant realm." <-- Stone giants are relevant. Dragons? Perhaps not as much.
PF#5: "This volume of Pathfinder includes a detailed description of the goddess of monsters and her hideous minions; an examination of ancient magics from the ancient empire of Thassilon for use in your campaign, including rules for the lost art of sin magic; and six new monsters." <-- I can't recall and don't have my adventure handy.
Pf#6: "This volume also presents all the information you’ll need to run Karzoug, including several unique spells and magic items. Also detailed is an expansive gazetteer of the ruined city of Xin-Shalast; its secrets and treasures and dangers can provide for many more sessions of excitement after Karzoug is defeated." <-- very, very relevant.
So, unless you are objected to the inclusion of fiction, I don't see what is extraneous. The stuff that's marginal really contributed to the world-building flavour and this was at a time when the other lines weren't up and running so we needed it where it was.
I must admit I got into the game LATE and am happy to be able to afford a monthly subscription to pathfinder AP.
I see all the other stuff they got out and would love to be able to have everything they have done. They just do amazing stuff.
Since being laid off, and not finding full time work, well that ain't happening any time soon.
Lol I got the reference pretty quick, but just might be because I was almost hit by one of those stars this morning.Yeah. And a German Three-Pointed Throwing Star costs over 20000 Euros (can cost more than ten times that much). But they're throwing in a car for every star you buy.
So the current format is:
$20 (cost of an issue of PF for a single deity) for 8 pages, 20 deities = $400 to get the information
Well, they are for aiming.
So you are suggesting that the article has as much relative value as a hood ornament? What a low view of these people's work you have.
No, I thought you were being ridiculous with your exaggeration, and I tried to one-up you.
Seems I won. What do I win? I want a killion dollars, at least.
I think I heard that contractually the two later paths cannot be reprinted?
You heard right, basically.
For Paizo to do those hardcovers, they'd need wizards' approval. And since wizards hates 3e, hell will freeze over before they approve of that.
Never say never. If there is money to be made they will do it. They just can't now without damaging 4th Edition.But can Wizards print them on their own or would they need a deal with Paizo? Not that they ever would now, but maybe in the future?With or without Paizo they are never going to. They're done with 3rd edition.
They could have done it before they even announced their new game.
For example?They don't randomly throw in material in there, you know: The articles support the adventure, and the path. It's not "Adventure in Irrisen, Mwangi Gazetteer, Native's Guide to the People of Ustalav, and the Thouseand Gods of Vudra."Incorrect. Nowadays they are much better about it, but for quite some time there was a fair amount of extraneous material not germane to the given AP.
Seconded. When you accuse me of being incorrect, you must have evidence, or it's just namecalling.
Let's list all APs that have any material that doesn't fit. (Note, I'm leaving out the Journal, which, by itself, doesn't qualify as a fair amount)
Pathfinder #4: You could argue that the dragons don't fit really, though there are several dragons in Rise of the Runelords.
Pathfinder #6: There's a Preview for the next AP.
Pathfinder #7: A guide to Varisians. Well, Varisians do not really play a big role in the AP (though it does play in Varisia).
Pathfinder #11: There's something about the Hold of Belkzen, which is a detour really.
Pathfinder #14: Into the Black, dealing with Golarion's Solar system, is a bit of a tangent (though you fight a lot of extragolarians from the Dark Tapestry in that adventure)
That's all, folks. Everything else fits perfectly fine into the concept of Pathfinder Adventure Paths.
So "incorrect" right back at you.
wizards hates 3eI don't think this is a useful sentiment. I think pretty much all companies focus their efforts on their current product offerings. Characterizing that as "hate" is unnecessarily inflammatory snark.
Oh, come on.
I can understand focussing your efforts on you own current stuff.
But their behaviour goes way beyond that. They actively focussed on not supporting 3e, by requiring companies to abandon it if they wanted to use the GSL; by not approving the other hardcovers when it hadn't taken a lot of effort for them to get these books going and netted them a nice sum of money for their effort; by pulling the plug on the official PDFs, which wouldn't have required that much effort on their part (again), and had netted them a lot of money for their work (again).
That's not "focussing your efforts on your own current stuff".
Don't want me to use word "hate"? Well, tell me what else I must call it. "Want it to fail"? "Go on a crusade against"? "Sabotage"?
It's not inflammatory snark. It's my opinion.
It's only inflammatory if some over-sensitive people douse themselves in gasoline and run up at me to embrace me when I'm trying to light candles.
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Never say never. If there is money to be made they will do it. They just can't now without damaging 4th Edition.But can Wizards print them on their own or would they need a deal with Paizo? Not that they ever would now, but maybe in the future?With or without Paizo they are never going to. They're done with 3rd edition.No offense Jal but the never say never attitude in this case is just being ignorant.
Forgotten Realms fans have been waiting close to 10 years for Wizards to ALLOW Profantasy to release the 4th and final patch (that's been finished for close to 8 years now) to the Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas. Guess what came out today, Windows 7. It'll be interesting to see if the Atlas works.
None taken. I'm probably as set as you are that it will never happen, I was just being hypothetical.
Look at the games being released on Steam nowadays, after all.
Accuse ... namecalling ...
Let's list all APs that have any material that doesn't fit.
...the Journal...
/snip some more/
So "incorrect" right back at you.
Not incorrect at all. (And I'm sorry if you somehow think it's "namecalling" for whatever reason - I didn't realize your sensitivity level. Maybe you just shouldn't ever respond to me if you get that worked up - might be best for both of us.) But added to your excellent list: most of the journal through Second Darkness, a bunch of the monsters, and a bunch of #3's "Varisia" article. One could maybe add #18's Demon Lords of Golarion as it went way way beyond that AP and that AP's drow, and possibly a couple of god articles (some didn't really play that much of a role at all), and maybe even #25's (otherwise excellent) tiefling article (whose tie to the actual CoT AP is a stretch) but those are a nit.
In any case, such things have long been covered in multiple threads here - and both Tarren and KaeYoss have been here long enough to know that.
But the journals themselves are enough evidence, AFAIC, to quote your post (the "don't randomly throw in material" and "support adventure and path") and note it's incorrect. I'm sorry if you happen to disagree. *shrug* [And a pre-emptive note for any overzealous uber-fan - not that any are here - I'm not saying any of the above are "bad" or that people "shouldn't like them" or that "Paizo shouldn't put that stuff in", etc. I'm just noting that previously there were some... extraneous... things in some of the older APs. That's it, that's all.]
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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They don't randomly throw in material in there, you know: The articles support the adventure, and the path. It's not "Adventure in Irrisen, Mwangi Gazetteer, Native's Guide to the People of Ustalav, and the Thouseand Gods of Vudra."Incorrect. Nowadays they are much better about it, but for quite some time there was a fair amount of extraneous material not germane to the given AP.
I disagree.
PF#2: "This volume of Pathfinder includes a detailed description of the city of Magnimar, several new monsters, and a detailed description of the goddess of dreams and travel, Desna, along with notes on her faithful." <-- seeing we are going to Magnimar, this is relevant again. Perhaps, Desna was less necessary.
PF#3: "This volume of Pathfinder also features rules for maintaining and running a castle, a gazetteer of the wilderness region featured in the Adventure Path, and introduces several new monsters perfect for plaguing PCs who tread too far into these haunted mountains." I recall some complaints about running a castle, but, as the PCs, at the end of the adventure, were going to have a chance to run a castle for a bit, it didn't seem that extraneous.
PF#4: "This volume of Pathfinder also includes additional rules and information on the stone giant race, details on the dragons of the Pathfinder Chronicles campaign setting, and several new monsters native to the rugged badlands of the stone giant realm." <-- Stone giants are relevant. Dragons? Perhaps not as much.
PF#5: "This volume of Pathfinder includes a detailed description of the goddess of monsters and her hideous minions; an examination of ancient magics from the ancient empire of Thassilon for use in your campaign, including rules for the lost art of sin magic; and six new monsters." <-- I can't recall and don't have my adventure handy.
Pf#6: "This volume also presents all the information you’ll need to run Karzoug, including several unique spells and magic items. Also detailed is an expansive gazetteer of the ruined city of Xin-Shalast; its secrets and treasures and dangers can provide for many more sessions of excitement after Karzoug is defeated." <-- very, very relevant.
I posted this hours ago but can't see it. Sorry if this is a repost.
Not incorrect at all. (And I'm sorry if you somehow think it's "namecalling" for whatever reason - I didn't realize your sensitivity level. Maybe you just shouldn't ever respond to me if you get that worked up - might be best for both of us.)
Well, someone has to make you see that you're flat out wrong. I'm such a selfless person that I cannot allow you to wallow in your ignorance.
But added to your excellent list: most of the journal
So, the list has "all of the journal" AND "most of the journal"?
A bit redundant, isn't it?
a bunch of the monsters
There might be a few that don't fit in the current AP at all, but less than a bunch.
Note that just because a monster isn't used in the adventure itself doesn't mean doesn't fit the Adventure Path.
The Adventure Paths aren't just adventures. You can play them as written without any extra action, but if you don't want that, the Adventure Paths offer you a lot of extra material to expand the world.
and a bunch of #3's "Varisia" article.
Again, it wouldn't have a place in a module, but this is a Pathfinder Adventure Path. If you want to take the scenic route to Hook Mountain (or any of the other locales you'll have to visit during the path), the Gazetteer can be quite helpful.
And it's better than just detailing whatever you see on the way between Magnimar and Turtleback Ferry. This isn't a computer game where you cannot go off the map.
One could maybe add #18's Demon Lords of Golarion as it went way way beyond that AP and that AP's drow
Again, AP, not module. During Second Darkness, you can meet, and interact with, more than just two or three houses. It helps to know who their prayers go to.
And, again, if you do an article about demon lords, why do a half-assed job of it?
, and possibly a couple of god articles (some didn't really play that much of a role at all
Let's see:
Desna: The whole AP plays in Varisia, Desna's Varisian. The festival that kicks off the first PAP ever is a Desnan holiday. And Desna is a great choice for Rise of the Runelords players.
Lamashtu: Her deranged followers appear quite often in the path. It's good to know more about her.
Abadar: Big thing in Korvosa. Right up their alley. And it's an urban campaign, and he's an urban deity. Fits like a perfect, golden glove.
Zon-Kuthon: You meet several of his clerics, run around in a place that is cursed by him, and go up against relics sacred to him, and maybe against his chosen. Fits well enough I say.
Cayden Cailean: That one is a tiny bit of a stretch, but still, it fits: His freedom-loving nature and vigilante's soul fit right in Riddleport, the place the AP starts in.
Calistria: Elves.
Serenrae: Sun goddess. Sun-scorched land. Match made in some good-aligned outer plane. Plus, her arch-nemesis and his kids play a big role in the path.
Rovagug: Said Arch-nemesis, playing a big part
Iomedae: She's Chelaxian, and would like it a lot if Cheliax got back under her banner, with her being Aroden's successor.
Asmodeus: Cheliax.
), and maybe even #25's (otherwise excellent) tiefling article (whose tie to the actual CoT AP is a stretch)
Not really. You fight a whole bunch of them, know your enemy (and, in the case of GM's, know your puppets). Plus, they fit into Cheliax, with its high amount of traffic with Hell.
In any case, such things have long been covered in multiple threads here - and both Tarren and KaeYoss have been here long enough to know that.
Yeah. We know that they fit rather well. Which is why it puzzles me that you bring them up. You must know they get shot down.
But the journals themselves are enough evidence, AFAIC
So you don't know for certain?
, to quote your post (the "don't randomly throw in material" and "support adventure and path") and note it's incorrect.
Of course they don't throw in material randomly. The journals aren't random.
The first storyline is tied to the world's take-off (introducing the Pathfinders that give the whole product line its name) and tied to the plot of the first two. It's not a retelling of the adventure, of course, but it still fits. The Part that runs during second darkness plays in the Darklands, which is a one of the path's foci. Legacy of Fire's Dark Tapestry is probably a bit of experiement (they do that), but the Council of Thieves journals play in Cheliax again.
And, since you didn't notice, I acknowledged that the journals aren't as close to the APs as the other material, but they're not "a fair amount".
I'm just noting that previously there were some... extraneous... things in some of the older APs. That's it, that's all.]
No, you don't. You were noting that there was a fair amount. There wasn't. It was only a little. And the amount hasn't changed.
yawn & snip
Dude, are you applying for a job or something?
Some people don't agree with what you want to see in the AP's, why don't you just accept it and move on. Arguing every last point is, well, pointless.
I'd like to see DM only material in the AP's and all the rest of the stuff [in particular the Journals] published elsewhere so that players can access them without buying into AP's, am I going to get my way?, No, but I can live with that, I've had my say, that is what the forums are for, you don't need to agree or reply, unless you insist on having the last word on everything :)
yawn & snipDude, are you applying for a job or something?
Some people don't agree with what you want to see in the AP's, why don't you just accept it and move on. Arguing every last point is, well, pointless.
I'd like to see DM only material in the AP's and all the rest of the stuff [in particular the Journals] published elsewhere so that players can access them without buying into AP's, am I going to get my way?, No, but I can live with that, I've had my say, that is what the forums are for, you don't need to agree or reply, unless you insist on having the last word on everything :)
To be honest that post, in fact the bulk of the few posts above where simply arguing that not even a 'fair amount' of the support articles where extraneous. And he did back that up with a list, which he more or less had to reiterate twice, Kaeyoss can have an in your face posting style, hell he's down right aggressive about his point. But taking him out of context doesn't exactly help. It was just a counter arguement against a point made by Damon, taken way too far, true, but a fair arguement, which he backed up.
Kaeyoss can have an in your face posting style, hell he's down right aggressive about his point.
And there is no need to be. Just state your point and let it be.
If you want a rant, and sometimes we all do to be fair, make sure you post a "rant warning" before hand so nobody takes it personally!
Kaeyoss can have an in your face posting style, hell he's down right aggressive about his point.
It's not that. It's that sometimes, people don't realize that I'm always right. It's irritating. I mean, it's so obvious.
:P
yawn & snipDude, are you applying for a job or something?
Dude, are you expecting me to just say "Hey, dude, I'm right, just shut up!"?
Or what are you expecting?
Seriously, I'm a bit bewildered here.
Why should I do a half-assed job of it?
Some people don't agree with what you want to see in the AP's, why don't you just accept it and move on. Arguing every last point is, well, pointless.
I'm not arguing what I want to see in the APs here. That is quite easy: I like the current formula.
The issue here is that people make claims that are not true.
If I see things that aren't true, I sometimes have the inclination to refute those untruthful claims.
So, you could say the job I'm applying to is Smiter of Lies.
Kaeyoss can have an in your face posting style, hell he's down right aggressive about his point.And there is no need to be.
I'm not. I'm persistent.
If you want a rant, and sometimes we all do to be fair, make sure you post a "rant warning" before hand so nobody takes it personally!
What about taking your own advise?
You're going on and on about it. It's funny, really.
And saying something and going away is not for messageboards. It's for a graffiti wall.
Sorry if this comes as a shock to you, but people often discuss things here :P.
Oh, man... Kae is on a roll -- he's posted or replied to *half* of the posts on this thread!
(It won't be long... he's going to start replying to his own posts and arguing with himself... sadly, the madness always overcomes him in the end ;P)
He didn't reply to me. (*tear*)
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He didn't reply to me. (*tear*)Oh, man... Kae is on a roll -- he's posted or replied to *half* of the posts on this thread!
(It won't be long... he's going to start replying to his own posts and arguing with himself... sadly, the madness always overcomes him in the end ;P)
Ah, don't worry... he's probably already in the downward spiral! Besides, he doesn't reply to my posts either (which may have something to do with the rude pictures I sent him of last year's Infernal Library's Annual Asmodean Orgy).
No but those are not bad ideas. Might be to soon for them though.Do you see Pathfinder Clue? Pathfinder Risk? Pathfinder Monopoly?
Ironicly, while there does appear to be a D&D Clue, there is no D&D Risk that I've found, and the only reference to a D&D Monopoly was an April Fool's Joke (fools ... clowns ... oh, I see).
I just remember how I feeled when I started reading the first volumes of CotCT after having read the journals of the previous AP.
The journals of RotR detailed how Eando Kline found that mysterious skull box (and some more in the possesion of the Red Mantis in Korvosa), how he heard of a little girl in Korvosa thought to be a prophetess prophesying impending doom for all of Korvosa, and so on. That hasn't much relevance for the actual RotR volume in which these stories were published. They seemed to be only a nice little story.
After starting with CotCT I sat there thinking: "Oh, ... I see ..."
He didn't reply to me. (*tear*)Oh, man... Kae is on a roll -- he's posted or replied to *half* of the posts on this thread!
(It won't be long... he's going to start replying to his own posts and arguing with himself... sadly, the madness always overcomes him in the end ;P)
Awwww, don't feel bad.
And get that tear sewn up. You don't want that to widen. Just imagine you chasing someone to eat him/her, and then you fall in half. Baaad.
I just remember how I feeled when I started reading the first volumes of CotCT after having read the journals of the previous AP.
The journals of RotR detailed how Eando Kline found that mysterious skull box (and some more in the possesion of the Red Mantis in Korvosa), how he heard of a little girl in Korvosa thought to be a prophetess prophesying impending doom for all of Korvosa, and so on. That hasn't much relevance for the actual RotR volume in which these stories were published. They seemed to be only a nice little story.
After starting with CotCT I sat there thinking: "Oh, ... I see ..."
Plus, the two APs are connected as well. Not by much, but it's a nice little Easter Egg.
Ironicly, while there does appear to be a D&D Clue, there is no D&D Risk that I've found, and the only reference to a D&D Monopoly was an April Fool's Joke (fools ... clowns ... oh, I see).No but those are not bad ideas. Might be to soon for them though.Do you see Pathfinder Clue? Pathfinder Risk? Pathfinder Monopoly?
I thought there was a D&D Risk.
And no D&D Monopoly? Really? They made one for everything else.
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This may be less a matter of choice and more one of necessity (at least originally; possibly a matter of habit for some by now), since the APs preceded the Core Rules release by two years. I'm not sure haw far back the Companion and Chronicles lines go, but wasn't the AP subscription the only source of information for a while? Small wonder that it was the preferred source, if so.
I think it was Erik Mona, who, when Pathfinder started, referred to the old D&D adventures when he tried to explain the format of the Adventure Paths. The concept to build a world within an adventure is nothing new to D&D and in my mind, the Pathfinder APs are a refinement of the original concepts.
Personally I like this concept because it gives me the infos I need, when I need them. I own quite some setting books ans world expanding sourcebooks, so I have no problem with this concept per se. On the other hand, when I think about some of my most favored 3.5 source books ("Silver Marches" and "Serpent Kingdoms" as well as "Secrets of Sarlona"), then the truth is that I'll probably never use them). The same with the Pathfinder Campaign Setting. It's an awesome book but that there are nation descriptions I haven't read 'til now because I've no need for them right now (and probably won't for a long time)
Besides, I'haven't the time to do a lot of world building nowadaways and I haven't the time to create my own adventures either. From this standpoint, the tiefling article is highly valuable for me in CoT #1 because I learn about this race and can use this knowledge immediately within the confines of the adventure. A separation of adventure and world building information would probably force me think about what to buy and what to ignore and thereby problaby make me by nothing at all.
Not really. The AP is what Pathfinder is at the core. Its what it started as with everything else stemming from that due mostly to the pure popularity of the AP product.So why mess with success?
+1
My main problem is that I'm also a Cthulhu fiend and all of a sudden there's lots of stuff coming out for that too.
It doesnt help that I was made redundant as part of the recession :-s
So, I compromise.
I don't always like it but I can still do without the companions (and temporarily the bestiary, darn it) as the APs have the stats in.
Personally I think Paizo have got about the right balance in their products. While not perfect, they do get a good balance about what is in a particular product (and whats/how much is in a different one).
He didn't reply to me. (*tear*)Ghouls don't cry. They leak. That's gross. Pull yourself together, man!
*flicks at his eyeball with the tip of his extraordinarily long tongue, moistening it with the blood of a recent kill (hot ghoul groupies swoon)* I wasn't crying, I was tearing the living apart in a red rage and devouring their flesh!
I don't always like it but I can still do without the companions (and temporarily the bestiary, darn it) as the APs have the stats in.
The APs don't have all the stats in, just like with the 3.5e APs before the launch of PFRPG referencing the Monster Manual, the new PFRPG APs reference the Bestiary for some of the monsters that appear in it rather than reprinting monsters that are already published. Only advanced/templated/new monsters or creatures with class levels tend to have full stats.
Awwww, don't feel bad.
And get that tear sewn up. You don't want that to widen. Just imagine you chasing someone to eat him/her, and then you fall in half. Baaad.
Yay!
*devours some passerby in celebration, then moistens his other eyeball with the blood on his tongue*
The APs don't have all the stats in, just like with the 3.5e APs before the launch of PFRPG referencing the Monster Manual, the new PFRPG APs reference the Bestiary for some of the monsters that appear in it rather than reprinting monsters that are already published. Only advanced/templated/new monsters or creatures with class levels tend to have full stats.
Well, there's the PRD, which has all the stats, so you can make do without the Bestiary in a pinch.
As for templated monsters: I could actually see them not including full stats for critters with simple templates in the future.
If they need the space, they could just refer to the monster entry, and the fast template entry. The simple templates have quick and dirty rules so you can apply them on the fly.
Advanced: Add 2hp/HD, increase AC by 4 (touch and flat-footed are +2 each), and increase every other number you see by 2.
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If you want a rant, and sometimes we all do to be fair, make sure you post a "rant warning" before hand so nobody takes it personally!What do you think that avatar means? I thought everyone knew that that red-costumed jester avatar means "rant warning!!".
Tarren, what does your avatar warn us about? ;)
Well, someone has to make you see that you're flat out wrong. I'm such a selfless person that I cannot allow you to wallow in your ignorance.
That's cool. But I'm still right. Sorry! (Are you sure you want to keep going back and forth on this? Oh wait... it's KaeYoss. Quite the... um... "fan". Never mind. Of course you do!)
So, I'll cover it here to be efficient:
"You're wrong!"
"I'm right!"
"You're wrong!"
"I'm right!"
Etc etc.
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Well, someone has to make you see that you're flat out wrong. I'm such a selfless person that I cannot allow you to wallow in your ignorance.That's cool. But I'm still right. Sorry! (Are you sure you want to keep going back and forth on this? Oh wait... it's KaeYoss. Quite the... um... "fan". Never mind. Of course you do!)
So, I'll cover it here to be efficient:
"You're wrong!"
"I'm right!"
"You're wrong!"
"I'm right!"
Etc etc.
Because you know that's a winning debate tactic. We get you didn't like the articles Arnwyn, but Kaeyoss' points are solid and have a good foundation in fact. Yours just seem to be nit picking and looking for problems where there is none. I am currently running the Second Darkness adventure path, and with the exception of Into the Darklands, I have never gone "Gee, you know I wish I had the campaign setting or another book to be able to run this adventure path."
Even then, Into the Darklands isn't required, it just goes more in depth into the Darklands and helps support an entire two books of the path, should you choose to use it. Its nothing no gm couldn't overcome with a bit of spit shine and elbow grease.
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Well, someone has to make you see that you're flat out wrong. I'm such a selfless person that I cannot allow you to wallow in your ignorance.That's cool. But I'm still right. Sorry! (Are you sure you want to keep going back and forth on this? Oh wait... it's KaeYoss. Quite the... um... "fan". Never mind. Of course you do!)
Arnwyn, I usually agree with some of your points (at least partially) in this point, I can't. In preparing to run RotRL I have used every article in the first 6 books at least once, and that is without planning any side-trecks for them. In running a PbP of CotCT, I have used every article in #7 (the journal was very useful in portraying thousand bones), and 1/2 of them in #8 (and I havn't even started preparing for #8 yet) so I have used every single article (including the journals) in the first 7 books. The ONLY one that didn't have pertain-ant information to the AP as written was the journal on Kaer Maga, even that gave a good background on how evil organizations work. Yes, some of the time my players find pages of the journal along their journey, sometime the journal is used to find a good real life picture that fits the destination the party is going through (as the first person recounting of the look and feel tells more than the broad strokes in the setting book)
Because you know that's a winning debate tactic. We get you didn't like the articles Arnwyn, but
LOL! Any "debate tactics" went right out the window when KaeYoss responded. I suspect you're not pointing those out because you agree with him/disagree with me. That's cool - human nature and all that. In any case, I don't see his point and don't think they're "solid" at all and he clearly can't see mine, so there's no point going any further as we'd just be talking at each other. *shrug*
I'm glad you "get" that I didn't like the articles (not what I said, actually). Oh. Right right right. Don't criticize Paizo's products. I get it, Dissinger. Don't worry, I'll 'fall in line' sooner or later!
I am currently running the Second Darkness adventure path, and with the exception of Into the Darklands, I have never gone "Gee, you know I wish I had the campaign setting or another book to be able to run this adventure path."
??? What are you talking about? That's not what I'm talking about at all. Believe me - with Paizo's excellent APs, I've never thought that I've needed any more info/books other than what Paizo's included in the AP (though you apparently did - "exception" indeed! :D). As I said before, and pointed out - I think that in earlier APs, their was a "fair amount" (subjective) of extraneous-to-that-AP info. And yes, the earlier journals are the biggest offender. If you have a Korvosa story in RotRL, that's extraneous. To people who disagree... I've got nothing. Your position is so inexplicable that you might as well not talk to me at all, thanks, because you'd just be wasting all of our time and internet bandwidth. You would make no sense to me, I'm afraid. And guys - it's not a big deal, so wild flailing "YOU ARE WRONG!" defenses are hardly necessary. I really like all the APs so far (well, not Second Darkness, but that's been picked on enough all over the place!).
Arnwyn, I usually agree with some of your points (at least partially)
Really?. Heh... I thought I pretty much stood alone at Paizo! :D
Not much I can say about the rest of your post, though. I'm glad you managed to get something from the Kaer Maga journal, but a journal on Kaer Maga in RotRL is pretty much the definition of extraneous. (And Kaer Maga was the "ONLY" one not pertinent? Pfft to that. I have no idea how/why you chose to miss mentioning Korvosa in the RotRL AP in your post.)
And, as an aside to certain Paizo board members: "Extraneous" =/= "can't somehow find something useful even if it's a stretch".
As I said before, and pointed out - I think that in earlier APs, their was a "fair amount" (subjective) of extraneous-to-that-AP info. And yes, the earlier journals are the biggest offender. If you have a Korvosa story in RotRL, that's extraneous. To people who disagree... I've got nothing.
In regard to RotRL you are right, but, as I have pointed out above, these journals foreshadowed CotCT and are very valuable for running that campaign.
In regard to RotRL you are right, but, as I have pointed out above, these journals foreshadowed CotCT and are very valuable for running that campaign.
As I said before, and pointed out - I think that in earlier APs, their was a "fair amount" (subjective) of extraneous-to-that-AP info. And yes, the earlier journals are the biggest offender. If you have a Korvosa story in RotRL, that's extraneous. To people who disagree... I've got nothing.
So if you bought RotRL and not CotCT, they were extraneous and if you bought CotCT and not RotRL, they might as well have been non-existant.
Oh wait... it's KaeYoss. Quite the... um... "fan". Never mind. Of course you do!)
So we're down to thinly veiled insults now, eh?
At least you know on some level that you have lost. Because insults are the last resort of the loser.
So if you bought RotRL and not CotCT, they were extraneous and if you bought CotCT and not RotRL, they might as well have been non-existant.
Quite right. But if you bougth RotRL and CotCT, they are revealed as what they really are: precious little gems.
Oh wait... it's KaeYoss. Quite the... um... "fan". Never mind. Of course you do!)So we're down to thinly veiled insults now, eh?
At least you know on some level that you have lost. Because insults are the last resort of the loser.
is that true? Then I have won every arguement I have had with my wife.
Yippee!!!
is that true? Then I have won every arguement I have had with my wife.
Yippee!!!
2 rules exist concerning wives
1: Wife is always right.
2: When the wife is wrong, see rule number 1.
is that true? Then I have won every arguement I have had with my wife.
Yippee!!!
2 rules exist concerning wives
1: Wife is always right.
2: When the wife is wrong, see rule number 1.
you forgot rule #3, when asked "Does this <insert name of article of clothing here> make me look fat?" The answer is "Hell No!!!!!"
you forgot rule #3, when asked "Does this <insert name of article of clothing here> make me look fat?" The answer is "Hell No!!!!!"
Or, "no, honey, it's your fat that makes you look fat."
And then you RUN.
(takes copious notes for Sean's next book, Girlfriends Revisited)
I will be very dissapointed if Paizo does the same thing as Wizards of the Coast. One of the things I really didn't like with 3.5 was the huge amount of books released with new rules, prestige classes, etc.
And you had to get them to keep up.
I absolutely refused to do that with 4.0. I bought only the Players Handbook and don't plan to buy anything more. Already I see that game getting totally out-of-control again with so many new releases, etc. and stuff that breaks the game. I'll continue playing it at conventions with my father and sons, but am looking to Pathfinder for my home stuff.
I thought Paizo was mainly focusing on story content, world development, modules, etc. that we pay for. I have liked their modules and campaigns. If they start duplicating the tactics of WOC with too many "rules" books all the time, I'll end up quitting the Pathfinder society game too. :(
I want a fun system to play, not one that gets more and more "rules" to where you need a library to keep up and get bogged down in all the look-ups.
Most fun I had in the past 3 yrs was playing "Rise of the Runelords" with a DM that restricted us all to only playing characters out of the Players Handbook. None of the extra splat books. It was a lot of fun!