School necromancy; Level sorcerer/wizard 8
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M/DF (a bit of sponge)
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Targets living creatures, no two of which can be more than 60 ft. apart
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Fortitude half; Spell Resistance yes
This spell evaporates moisture from the body of each subject living creature, causing flesh to wither and crack and crumble to dust. This deals 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 20d6). This spell is especially devastating to water elementals and plant creatures, which instead take 1d8 points of damage per caster level (maximum 20d8).
Now, maybe it's just me, but I never understood it in a way that I could deem clear and doubtless, not in 3.X, nor now in Pathfinder.
How many targets can it affect, or which is the exact size of the affected area? Spell info says only that no two of the affected creatures can be more than 60 ft. apart, but which are the limits of the area they must anyway be inside?
Can it be the 400 ft. + 40 ft./level? That vould mean that a Lvl 20 Wizard who casts Horrid Wilting in a town could kill every single person in a 1200 ft. radius, as long as everyone is no more than 60 ft. from any one other. That would be a genocide.
Or does it simply mean that the area has a 60 ft radius from the first target? In this case why not simply write "60 ft. radius, centered on a single creature"?
School necromancy; Level sorcerer/wizard 8
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M/DF (a bit of sponge)
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Targets living creatures, no two of which can be more than 60 ft. apart
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Fortitude half; Spell Resistance yes
This spell evaporates moisture from the body of each subject living creature, causing flesh to wither and crack and crumble to dust. This deals 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 20d6). This spell is especially devastating to water elementals and plant creatures, which instead take 1d8 points of damage per caster level (maximum 20d8).Now, maybe it's just me, but I never understood it in a way that I could deem clear and doubtless, not in 3.X, nor now in Pathfinder.
How many targets can it affect, or which is the exact size of the affected area? Spell info says only that no two of the affected creatures can be more than 60 ft. apart, but which are the limits of the area they must anyway be inside?
Can it be the 400 ft. + 40 ft./level? That vould mean that a Lvl 20 Wizard who casts Horrid Wilting in a town could kill every single person in a 1200 ft. radius, as long as everyone is no more than 60 ft. than any other. That would be a genocide.
Or does it simply mean that the area has a 60 ft radius from the first target? In this case why not simply write "60 ft. radius, centered on a single creature"?
I've always read these types of spells in such a way that the 1st target has to be within 400'+40'/lvl, the 2nd must be within 60' of the 1st, 3rd much be within 60' of the 2nd, etc. Since it's not an area spell, you need to be aware of each of the targets, and probably have line of (sight? effect? not sure...) to them.
The way it reads, the first target must be within long range of the caster. Every target thereafter must be within 60 feet of every other target. Thus, if the second target is 40 feet away from the first, he would be affected; if the third target is 60 feet away from the first but 100 feet away from the second, he is not affected.
That's even worse than my first hypothesis, which puts the limit to the 400 ft. + 40 ft./level radius, since, if it is as you say, as long as the first target is within that range the caster may affect an unlimited number of creatures if there's a chain of 60 ft. (or less) between all the creatures. Virtually, he could affect every single creature on planet, or, at best, on his line of sight, until the net is broken by distances superior to 60 ft.
Too broken to be like that.
In a battle between armies a single Horrid Wilting would crush almost the entire enemy forces.
Basically, any target must be within a 60 feet area. The area itself can be placed at long range (400 ft. + 40ft. per caster level).
You can find an essay regarding this in the old 3.5 Rules Archives here.
"Sometimes, you can choose targets only within some sort of limited area. The rules usually use one of two different kinds of wording to indicate that. For example, the targets entry for the animal growth spell is as follows: 'Up to one animal (Gargantuan or smaller) per two levels, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart.'And the targets entry for the animal shapes spell is as follows: 'Up to one willing creature per level, all within 30 ft. of each other.' Usually, when the rules say things in different ways, they mean different things, but not in this case. All the targets you choose must be with the specified distance of all the other targets, and any target that is more than the specified distance from even one other target can't be selected as a target. To put it another way, imagine a sphere with a diameter (not radius) equal to the specified distance. All the targets you choose must fit within that sphere."
Now it's clearer, thanks.
But still, why not simply write: "60 ft. diameter area" (or better, "30 ft. radius area")?
Now it's clearer, thanks.
But still, why not simply write: "60 ft. diameter area" (or better, "30 ft. radius area")?
Has to do with the rules for bursts, lines of effect, and whatnot.
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Has to do with the rules for bursts, lines of effect, and whatnot.Now it's clearer, thanks.
But still, why not simply write: "60 ft. diameter area" (or better, "30 ft. radius area")?
Yeah, if it were "30 ft. radius area," even unseen targets and allies would be included. This spell lets you SPECIFY targets, enabling the caster to drop it without regret on a field full of allies (though he must be able to see or otherwise detect all the targets to be affected).
It's basically a 30' burst of potential targets, but you can (and must) specify who in that area is affected (that means that you can leave allies out, but have to be able to target them all).
Is Horrid Wilting not a Line of effect spell?
Line of Effect: A line of effect is a straight, unblocked
path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is
canceled by a solid barrier. It’s like line of sight for ranged
weapons, except that it’s not blocked by fog, darkness, and
other factors that limit normal sight.
If it is a line of effect spell you wouldn't need to see all individuals affected just the beginning of the area and project it out 60ft X 60ft. I say this as the rules state line of effect are not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.
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Is Horrid Wilting not a Line of effect spell?
Line of Effect: A line of effect is a straight, unblocked
path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is
canceled by a solid barrier. It’s like line of sight for ranged
weapons, except that it’s not blocked by fog, darkness, and
other factors that limit normal sight.If it is a line of effect spell you wouldn't need to see all individuals affected just the beginning of the area and project it out 60ft X 60ft. I say this as the rules state line of effect are not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.
Targets living creatures, no two of which can be more than 60 ft. apart
Horrid wilting isn't a spread or a burst, it affects targets, so you need a Line of Effect and a Line of Sight for each target.
Read the text a few rows below the start of Line of effect:
You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast.
Nice necro, BTW.
So, you need LoE to each target.
A burst, cone, cylinder, or emanation spell affects only an area, creature, or object to which it has line of effect from its origin (a spherical burst’s center point, a cone shaped burst’s starting point, a cylinder’s circle, or an emanation’s point of origin).
If it was a 30' spread it would need LoE only to the center point, and then LoE from there to the creatures affected, but instead, it targets the creatures, so it needs LoE from the caster position to each of the creatures to be affected .
Thanks for the clarification.
For a little more background the caster had fly as a movement and was roughly 200' away from the actual spell effect that was cast. The party had a cleric that cast a wall of stone 10' high across a 50' hallway to impede the caster (who at the time was on the ground) from having a visual on the party. With a party member 5'from the wall shooting arrows with his composite long bow and others up to 40' from the wall. Besides the wall there were no visual issues (darkness etc.) when it came to line of effect. So the caster was able to fly up 30' and cast the Horrid Wilting spell. The issue was who could be seen, and I ruled all as the Ranger was a Half elf with a bow in hand. The party wasn't happy with me and I then argued the Line of Effect Rules as I stated above.
I was wrong about the line of effect rules but still not sure that I wasn't fine over all with my call.
I had 3 summoned demons in the mix ( from a different caster)that were affected, with one actually killed due to a roll of 1 because of massive damage. So it's not like there was any preferential treatment on my part.
I do have a couple more questions that I would like an opinion on.
First, if there was an invincible character in the middle of the 60' diameter spell effect but I couldn't see them would they be affected by the spell?
Second, do I have the ability to leave my allies out of the spell effects involving the Horrid Wilting?
I ask these questions because if you need a visual on all creatures affected but it is an area of effect spell why can't I choose which creatures are affected. it's hard for me to reconcile why an area spell limits some choices but not others.
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I do have a couple more questions that I would like an opinion on.
First, if there was an invincible character in the middle of the 60' diameter spell effect but I couldn't see them would they be affected by the spell?
Second, do I have the ability to leave my allies out of the spell effects involving the Horrid Wilting?
1. No
2. YesWhat's tripping you up is that horrid wilting is not an area spell. At least not as defined by the Pathfinder rules on aiming a spell. It is a targeted spell, which means you have to be able to target (be able to see) a creature to affect it. And you can choose not to target a creature within range, too. You have to have Line of Effect to each and every target.
You can tell which is which from the spell description. Fireball for example, is an area spell. It does not have a targets line in the spell description, it has an area line.