Two requests I'd love to see Paizo do.


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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Okay I have a request for the folks at Paizo, and since its now October and Halloween time I just had to send this out.

A few months ago my gaming group was discussing the Pathfinder rule set, one thing led to another and we ended up talking about Halloween and costumes, which for some reason ended up becoming a discussion of Vampires, and how bad the current crop of vamps are these days. I mean True Blood, Twilight, good help ups the Vamp. Diaries, its all the same, and all a women centered romantic notion of vampires standing in for god knows what. Actually I do know what, good looking guys, emotionally damaged (because no bad looking guy can be damaged or be worth her time) who treat women with all the bygone manners of a few centuries before without all the ownership values of said centuries, and with out the ‘male domination’ of such times. In other words with all the romance of said times, without any of the cost. (I know, I’m venting)

None of which is my point, which was that we as a group began to name iconic vampires that did not fit the above modern version (although every name had some aspect of such) Dracula (Legosi’s) and LeStant, Nosferatu (Schereck’s), Count Yogi, Marieous (spelling?), Lee's Dracula of course, heck even Spike from Buffy (say whatever you want about the show being the forerunner of the current croup at lest the creators of the show knew they playing with the stereotypes even before they really existed as they do today). But then I mentioned Strahd almost off handedly. I got nothing, not even from the old timers.

“You know from Ravenloft.” Oh yeahhh! Form the old timers. It was odd that only the old timers knew what I was talking about, and even then had to be reminded. I never played 2E (I was busy in the WoD) but I heard of Ravenloft, and of Strahd. Heck I even got a hard cover of "I Strahd". I couldn’t believe he was barely acknowledged or even remembered. But then I thought about my collection of 3E Ravenloft stuff. I got it all, and while the texts were good and informative, they were sadly and ironically being from WW, dry.

So my 1st request is for Paizo give us a good old-fashioned Gothic Horror Adv. Path. I read in one of the Dragon Mags that Ravenloft owed its inspiration to the old Universal Monster movies; as such I love to have something based more on Hammer’s Horror, and Lee. The archvillian should be a vampire of course, but like Lee make this a true monster, something that’ll kill you as soon as look at you, and regards the peasants as property or food. In other words Paizo, to be perfectly clear, give Vampires their freaking ba-ehh fangs back again. A true Gothic Vampire Horror Adventure Path. Please!

My 2nd request is probably less likely but I think would simply be cool. An adventure Path (six issues) of “What If’s?” from the older paths. In other words, one issue being What if a Rune Lord had won. The next issue being What if the Second Darkness had begun. This would also fill the growing demand for epic or at lest higher level adventures.

Just had to put this out there for your consideration.

TTFN DRE

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Andre Caceres wrote:
Request for Gothic Horror Adventure Path

Dear Paizo,

+1

Yours Sincerely,
The Dudemeister

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

+1. Gothic Horror AP, written by: Nick Logue (slashfest !), Richard Pett (haunted houses !), G.A. Vaughn (epic Castlevania crawl !), Wesley Schneider (devils !) , Wolf Baur (ghouls !) and Erick Monna (demons !).

See, we have the authors laid out. Get working, Paizo ! ;-)


Hey you forgot Fright Night and Lost Boys....+1 paizo it would be awesome to have a gothic adventure path.

Dark Archive

I think they have a country that supports your concept, not sure what the name is though...Ustalav or something, should fit your needs.

Oh, and for that classic feel, they should do the Tarot Card thing, where what you draw determines the adventure, it makes it different each time you play.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Jared Ouimette wrote:

I think they have a country that supports your concept, not sure what the name is though...Ustalav or something, should fit your needs.

Oh, and for that classic feel, they should do the Tarot Card thing, where what you draw determines the adventure, it makes it different each time you play.

I'm still hoping for a deluxe Harrow deck to go with my Tarokka deck.

That said, I'd like gothic horror either in an AP, or (more likely) in a pair or trio of linked modules.

Scarab Sages

A gothic horror adventure would be awesome! Especially one with zombies!

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

I believe Wes is working on something like this in his spare time. He definitely ran a brainstorming playtest horror adventure at PaizoCon. Even if that never sees the light of day, I think we'll get some Ustalav horror at some point. It is one of the nations that got a four page writeup, which tends to mean it's going to have a lot of stuff set there eventually.


Frostflame wrote:
Hey you forgot Fright Night and Lost Boys....+1 paizo it would be awesome to have a gothic adventure path.

Actually we did talk about that, but for the life of us we couldn't remember his name, or his sister in FNII. By the time I wrote up my request I forgotten. As for Lost Boys I forgot all about that one.

As for the Zombie mention a few post up, I wouldn't be against them persay but I want Gothic not Romero, or god help us post-Romero fast zombies.

TTFN DRE


I have to agree with pretty much everything the original poster said...except the second request. Nothing against it, just not interested in a "what if" path.

I love movies like Lost Boys, JC's Vampires (even liked the second one), and my all time favorite character in any D&D novel was Strahd.

I think the horror genre is in essence untapped as far as 3.?/d20 gaming is concerned. We got some raven loft stuff from wizards and White Wolf, though to be honest none of it was all that interesting. The source books are alright, but I can't think of a single solid horror adventure that strikes me as amazing to come out of the last ten years.

Paizo has done some amazing work so far testing the waters so to speak, with Skinsaw Murders and Hook Mountain, though I would have to say that Skinsaw is more the feel I would prefer. I love HookMt, but it's a slasher flick, with lots of gore and a little T&A (though I'm not sure anyone wants to see the nudity involved in brutal ogre love). What we need is a legitamite creepy horror adventure...with castles, gargoyles, vampires, pitch fork armed cattle, and ghosts. Something with story, and plot, and atmosphere.

Frankly, with the trait system, I think the groundwork has been laid to try out an adventure path where the characters are truely part of the back story, and not just an outside entity that comes in to save the day. Something the vast majority of RPG adventures do (even well writen ones). Design traits where the party members are directly related to the key NPCs, either through blood or politics, and write the story to include those relationships. Don't be afraid to add in tragic stories, where even when the party "wins" it's not exactly a happy ending (Logue did a great job with this in the Falcon's Hollow adventure where even though the kids are saved, one's mom is still a hooker, one's dad is still the villan, and everyone's misserable life plods on).

I'm hesitent to back the idea of demon/daemons in something like this. If I were to jump on that particular bandwagon it would need to be understood that they can't be these pathetic mickey mouse renditions that dungeons and dragons have gotten us to believe are somehow neat. High strength scores and spell like abilities aren't impressive...energy resistance and lots of hit points do not a demon make. What I want to see with demons are truely heartless, manipulative, corruptive, perverse, DEMONS!!! Which frankly, as much as I absolutely love Paizo, I just don't see happening. The theme I'm looking for here I've only really seen in White Wolf's BlackDog books, where you had to be 18 to buy them. Especialy the Baali book, where the introductory story involved a priest thinking he was having his way with a young boy, only to find out the boy was a demonic worshiping vampire with an insect fetish.

Either way, I would love to see some true horror adventures, and I think the Paizo team has the tools, talent, and leadership to pull it off propper.


Gothic Horror...Ustalav...I too would love to see this.

It's beginning to look a lot like Halloween!


I'd love gothic horror themed adventure path. My players would love it too.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Andre Caceres wrote:
Request for Gothic Horror Adventure Path

Dear Paizo,

+1

Yours Sincerely,
The Dudemeister

+ another one. This would probably be my favorite thing.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
yoda8myhead wrote:
I believe Wes is working on something like this in his spare time. He definitely ran a brainstorming playtest horror adventure at PaizoCon. Even if that never sees the light of day, I think we'll get some Ustalav horror at some point. It is one of the nations that got a four page writeup, which tends to mean it's going to have a lot of stuff set there eventually.

I was in that at PaizoCon. It looks like an awesome gothic horror adventure going. However I don't think it's slated for any time soon (I.E. nowhere near this year). Maybe next Halloween?


So you guys get any spoilers out of Wes? Cause it's a long way to the Halloween after next...something to tide us over/whet the appetite?


+1 for some kind of gothic horror in Ustalav. (No demons please. I bet Mona can still write something pretty scary.) It's tailor made for that.

Cool elements might include:

*a village of freaky people that the PCs stumble upon - and have to escape from
*crypts - like maybe crypts of giants or halflings - something unusual
*a mountain chase scene or two
*an enormous castle with crypts - but something to distinguish them - perhaps the crypts are alive, an enormous living creature buried below the castle
*a valley of perpetual darkness
*a secret society - maybe even of gothic-style monsters
*lots of freaky encounters of unexplainable, terrible stuff


I personally like the Thirty Days of Night vampires - critters that tear your throat out and rampage through a town, instead of glitter wearing flit boys with abuse issues.

The psychology of Twilight scares the hell out of me. "I'm a vapid cow that's so in love and he's pretty and brooding and it's okay that he's a 90-year-old predator that raped and beat me, because he sparkles! And I totally don't mind that my baby wants a romantic relationship with my ex-sort-of-other-boyfriend."


Strahd is a thinly-veiled ripoff of Dracula. Read the original book and then "I, Strahd."

That is all.


It wasn't vield at all. All of the old horror villans were covered in ravenloft. There's Jekil and Hyde, Frankenstine, Dracula...that was the point.

Grand Lodge

For this to really work it requires two very important things: Setting and Character.

Paizo has been great with settings so far. I think this can be a bit more challenging to maintain through six full adventures. A fine line has to be maintained to keep the players engaged and in suspense and not cross over into yet another "creepy" crypt adventure. The setting for each adventure would need to be unique and engaging in its own right.

The characters developed by Paizo have been great as well. Here I think they would have an easier time. A truly monstrous villain in the guise of a aristocratic gentleman (makes me think of Queen Ileosa Arabasti in Curse of the Crimson Throne). The cast should be flawed but salvageable, though some will never be saved.

The plot itself can be rather simple, or knowing Paizo, could be layers of plots that lead to understanding the events that have happened.

Quite honestly, if well done, I could very well see this kind of AP becoming the most popular AP released yet.

The problem is, that unlike most other APs so far, there is a high level of expectation for something like this. For Second Darkness you just needed to throw in Drow doing something naughty. That essentially all that is necessary for a drow adventure... drow! But for a gothic horror there is more than just a vampire.

Grand Lodge

BTW Wikipedia has a pretty interesting description of the Gothic Horror genre and what is often associated with it.

Sovereign Court

A mister Howard Lovecraft mined the gothic horror tradition long, and he mined it deep. One must always be careful with requesting things using genre shorthand, lest one end up with some carefully researched fiction that is 100% what you asked for and 0% what you wanted. :)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Stay tuned; in a month or so, we're releasing "Carrion Hill," a VERY Lovecraftian adventure set in Ustalav, written by Richard Pett for us many years ago but unpublished, and then updated to be in the PRPG game and to be set in Golarion by yours truly. No vampires in this one, but it's very good at evoking the creepy sense of backwoods/ancient urban horror that Lovecraft excelled at. Fans of "The Dunwich Horror" should take special note of this adventure...

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

James Jacobs wrote:
Stay tuned; in a month or so, we're releasing "Carrion Hill," a VERY Lovecraftian adventure set in Ustalav, written by Richard Pett for us many years ago but unpublished, and then updated to be in the PRPG game and to be set in Golarion by yours truly. No vampires in this one, but it's very good at evoking the creepy sense of backwoods/ancient urban horror that Lovecraft excelled at. Fans of "The Dunwich Horror" should take special note of this adventure...

I hadn't realized this was the exact same adventure he had written for the Styes before Dungeon's license was pulled. I thought you asked him to write a new, similar adventure. It's cool that you were able to make a few cosmetic changes and publish it as it was. Are there other unpublished adventures lying around you're waiting to Pathfinderize?

Dark Archive

Hmm, was that the one with Yog-Sothoth?


Perhaps if Carion Hill sells well Paizo would consider doing a horror path?


[Threadjack]

If you are looking for scary horror like Ravenloft for Pathfinder Roleplaying Game you might want to check out Obsidan Twilight. It is a mash up of Ravenloft and Dark Sun for play with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game by Louis Porter Jr. Design. Just a thought to help you get that Ravenloft fix.

[/Threadjack]

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Andre Caceres wrote:
...I want Gothic not Romero...

Gothic is cool. On the other hand, nothing beats...

Spoiler:
The Alkenstar Zombie Apocalypse!

All that stand between a rogue Gebbite army and total world domination are a single adventuring party and a wagon-load of shotguns.

*cue the theme from The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly*


James Jacobs wrote:
Stay tuned; in a month or so, we're releasing "Carrion Hill," a VERY Lovecraftian adventure set in Ustalav, written by Richard Pett for us many years ago but unpublished, and then updated to be in the PRPG game and to be set in Golarion by yours truly. No vampires in this one, but it's very good at evoking the creepy sense of backwoods/ancient urban horror that Lovecraft excelled at. Fans of "The Dunwich Horror" should take special note of this adventure...

Take it easy with the "Lovecraft stuff". I like as much as most but it really seems like Lovecraftian themes are really getting over used.

In the past we have had a 3E glut a D20 glut and I would dare to say we are right now at the peak of a "Cthulhu glut". I hope we don't someday look back at these years and think: "What was with all the Lovecraft stuff back then?". I know the HPLove stuff is popular and in the public domain but lets not overdue it. Some new original concepts would be better, like whatever happened to Mr Monas Red/Green Planet module idea?


Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber
Fraust wrote:
Perhaps if Carion Hill sells well Paizo would consider doing a horror path?

I believe I remember Lisa saying somewhere that the current amount of product lines is Paizo's limit.


Lokie wrote:
Fraust wrote:
Perhaps if Carion Hill sells well Paizo would consider doing a horror path?
I believe I remember Lisa saying somewhere that the current amount of product lines is Paizo's limit.

Indeed, I'd rather see what they've got, developed well, instead of spreading into every niche and wind up with them being semi-crap *cough* Palladium *cough*.


Lokie wrote:
Fraust wrote:
Perhaps if Carion Hill sells well Paizo would consider doing a horror path?
I believe I remember Lisa saying somewhere that the current amount of product lines is Paizo's limit.

I got the impression that Fraust wasn't asking for a seperate horror line, but an AP that would be horror based (perhaps AP 8 or 9 maybe?)

I personally would love to see an Adventure Path that is horror based. So let me throw my vote in for the gothic horror AP as well.

(On a side note, I have to say the vampires from Supernatural are pretty cool, and keep in line with much of the original folklore, which is nice.)


Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber
lojakz wrote:
Lokie wrote:
Fraust wrote:
Perhaps if Carion Hill sells well Paizo would consider doing a horror path?
I believe I remember Lisa saying somewhere that the current amount of product lines is Paizo's limit.

If so... my apologies. :)


If only there were some new base character class that would resonate with all this desired gothic creepiness...

Sovereign Court

+1 for Gothic as well, provided there are some lighter moments in the AP.

After all, Gothic horror is only so appealing when contrasting to standard fantasy.

In this vein, I would recommend the "Witcher" books and video game, which capture a lot of this, IMHO.


No worries. The vast majority of stuff I post on the net get's missunderstood to some extend or another. Only time it get's worse is when people here me speak in person...then things get rrreeeaaaaalllyyyy confused.

But yeah, what I'm hoping for is an adventure path set up for the horror genre. If they openly accepted suggestions I would start typing something up for a first book and send it in.

Sovereign Court

Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
If only there were some new base character class that would resonate with all this desired gothic creepiness...

OOoo! OOO! Like the Cavalier! or the Alchemist!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

yoda8myhead wrote:
I hadn't realized this was the exact same adventure he had written for the Styes before Dungeon's license was pulled. I thought you asked him to write a new, similar adventure. It's cool that you were able to make a few cosmetic changes and publish it as it was. Are there other unpublished adventures lying around you're waiting to Pathfinderize?

Carrion Hill was the only unpublished from the Dungeon era adventure waiting for a chance to see the light of day. There's some others that I would have LOVED to have folks write, but they never got started.


cibet44 wrote:


Take it easy with the "Lovecraft stuff". I like as much as most but it really seems like Lovecraftian themes are really getting over used.

For me at least, I don't ever see this happening. It'd be like saying there's too many rats with human faces living in my walls... just not possible.

Scarab Sages

Andre Caceres wrote:
So my 1st request is for Paizo give us a good old-fashioned Gothic Horror Adv. Path.

yes, please.

Dark Archive

How about a Jack the Ripper sort of mystery where the PC's are trying to figure out who is doing it before they become the next victim and to add to the tension... the party has to split up!!

Contributor

James Jacobs wrote:
yoda8myhead wrote:
I hadn't realized this was the exact same adventure he had written for the Styes before Dungeon's license was pulled. I thought you asked him to write a new, similar adventure. It's cool that you were able to make a few cosmetic changes and publish it as it was. Are there other unpublished adventures lying around you're waiting to Pathfinderize?
Carrion Hill was the only unpublished from the Dungeon era adventure waiting for a chance to see the light of day. There's some others that I would have LOVED to have folks write, but they never got started.

Suitably humbled, he scurries off to email vaughan immediately.

Contributor

OO, that felt good:)


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Lyingbastard wrote:

I personally like the Thirty Days of Night vampires - critters that tear your throat out and rampage through a town, instead of glitter wearing flit boys with abuse issues.

The psychology of Twilight scares the hell out of me. "I'm a vapid cow that's so in love and he's pretty and brooding and it's okay that he's a 90-year-old predator that raped and beat me, because he sparkles! And I totally don't mind that my baby wants a romantic relationship with my ex-sort-of-other-boyfriend."

So true...but that started with the Lost Boy's...IMHO...thats when the vampire genre started to suck...there have been some gems here and there... but oft times the fem-boy vampires have just been a marketing ploy aimed at the fangirls of the world. Financially they have their place...I guess...but as to actually adding to the vampire mythology and canon...an adamant NYET

I like the creepy village of freaks idea...gotta love the Lovecraftian Mistique of mutants and weird interbreeding cults of whatchamcallits


Lyingbastard wrote:
Lokie wrote:
Fraust wrote:
Perhaps if Carion Hill sells well Paizo would consider doing a horror path?
I believe I remember Lisa saying somewhere that the current amount of product lines is Paizo's limit.
Indeed, I'd rather see what they've got, developed well, instead of spreading into every niche and wind up with them being semi-crap *cough* Palladium *cough*.

As a long time Palladium Fan I must object at that offensive comment.

Offensive because it's true :(

Batts


Iczer wrote:
Lyingbastard wrote:
Lokie wrote:
Fraust wrote:
Perhaps if Carion Hill sells well Paizo would consider doing a horror path?
I believe I remember Lisa saying somewhere that the current amount of product lines is Paizo's limit.
Indeed, I'd rather see what they've got, developed well, instead of spreading into every niche and wind up with them being semi-crap *cough* Palladium *cough*.

As a long time Palladium Fan I must object at that offensive comment.

Offensive because it's true :(

Batts

Still, I have to admit that the Palladium books that I have are always a fun read. (I will not admit to how many Palladium books I have. ~cough~ over 100. ~cough~)

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

So I'm all alone here in thinking a zombie apocalypse set in Alkenstar would make an awesome opening act for an adventure path?


Sharoth wrote:
Iczer wrote:
Lyingbastard wrote:
Lokie wrote:
Fraust wrote:
Perhaps if Carion Hill sells well Paizo would consider doing a horror path?
I believe I remember Lisa saying somewhere that the current amount of product lines is Paizo's limit.
Indeed, I'd rather see what they've got, developed well, instead of spreading into every niche and wind up with them being semi-crap *cough* Palladium *cough*.

As a long time Palladium Fan I must object at that offensive comment.

Offensive because it's true :(

Batts

Still, I have to admit that the Palladium books that I have are always a fun read. (I will not admit to how many Palladium books I have. ~cough~ over 100. ~cough~)

Heh. I'm close to that. Is there a support group we should be seeing?

Batts


Karelzarath wrote:

Strahd is a thinly-veiled ripoff of Dracula. Read the original book and then "I, Strahd."

That is all.

Agreed, but most of the great iconic vamps are Dracula in name, Legosi's Dracula and the very best Lee's Dracula. Strahd to my mind is a new take on Dracula, but Dracula nevertheless. But in gaming circles Strahd is vital, while most people will mention (and with good reason, the OWoD vampires, they'll mention Clans or bloodlines, not individual vamps).

Also Fraust mad some very good points in his post above. I loved Hook Mt. as well but like Romero's zombies, slasher stories is not Gothic Horror.

As to the issue of Demons I'm of two minds. I agree that Wizards wantered down demons too much, but again not Gothic, or at lest not exactly gothic. I think a 20th + Vampire Lord would be less intrested in consorting with Demons as he would in becoming a Demon Lord himself (which isn't a half bad idea).

TTFN DRE

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