PRD says
A misty vapor arises around you. It is stationary. The vapor obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature 5 feet away has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker cannot use sight to locate the target).
"beyond 5 feet"
So am I to understand the square this is centered on, if a tiny creature is in the square, or someone is grappling with the caster they have full visibility?
A tiny creature, or someone grappling with the caster is not beyond 5 feet, so their vision is not obscured, is this correct?
Then people standing around the point of origin (i.e. the 9 squares surrounding the center of the spell, 1 square in every direction) have concealment, and everyone 10' (2 squares) or more away to the border of the spell has total concealment?
Am I misunderstanding something?
I think you hypothesis is correct, expect for the fact that a grapple no longer pulls the grappled creature into the grappler's square, the grappling parties stay adjacent.
Am I misunderstanding something?
I am not quite sure how to interpret your interpretation.
Creatures within the area of this spell can only see creatures or object which they are adjacent to. Beyond that they have concealment.
A creature standing in the outer parts of the spell (20' from the point of origin), can see adjacent creatures within the area and can see normally outside the area (except to the sides where their line of sight passes affected squares).
EDIT: Creatures outside the area can see creatures in the outer (20') area of the spell but have a 20% miss chance when attacking them.
EDIT: I think creatures sharing the same square within the are shoulæd have 20% cover. It should be specified in the description though.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
Am I misunderstanding something?
Possibly.
As written, I see this:
You can see up to 5 ft radius with 20% concealment (so tiny creature in the same square attacking the creature he is standing on must pass 20% concealment.)
After 5 ft, you can't see so everything is total concealment.
Ok, how about this.
If you are *not* five feet away from someone - if you are in their square, is their any concealment?
If you are *not* five feet away from someone - if you are in their square, is their any concealment?
It's poorly written, but I think the intent is that yes, there is concealment in your square. Nothing is ever exactly five feet away. It's within 5 feet, or outside of 5 feet. The lead-in text IMO refers to the total concealment outside of 5 feet; within 5 feet everything has (non-total) concealment.
|
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
If you are *not* five feet away from someone - if you are in their square, is their any concealment?
Maybe I didn't make my point clear.
But RAW, you have concealment from someone you are hugging. You would have 20% concealment at all times under all circumstances (if inside the area of the spell) but total concealment to any target more than 5 ft from you.
If you are *not* five feet away from someone - if you are in their square, is their any concealment?Maybe I didn't make my point clear.
But RAW, you have concealment from someone you are hugging.You would have 20% concealment at all times under all circumstances (if inside the area of the spell) but total concealment to any target more than 5 ft from you.
Yes, it's the location of the bolded text in the RAW that I'm interested in.
At our table, mini's occupy grids. Therefore there is the space you occupy, the 8 spaces that are 5' away, and the spaces farther out then that.
It's multiple characters in that center square that is confusing me. Your response "concealment from someone you are hugging" indicates that if the spell weren't an issue, and I were grappling with someone I'd have concealment?
I'm still unclear based off the spell description how the spell works.
(Edit: although I agree with 'the grandfathers' interpertation.)
Rewritten in a cleaner format:
0<=5 feet RADIUS = 20%
>5 feet RADIUS = total
The description says creatures 5ft away have 20% not creatures in your actual square.
I am with nexusphere as nothing I am reading in the spell description seems to indicate that a tiny creature attacking from inside your square would have any miss chance. Lets break the spell description down.
A misty vapor arises around you. It is stationary.
Nice bit of fluff text with a bit of rule information about the mist not being able to move. Nothing about concealment one way or another.
The vapor obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet.
This 2nd sentence means that vision 5ft or further away is affected. Nothing about vision in your square or at 0ft away.
A creature 5 feet away has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance).
So this means at 5ft away or one square away all attacks suffer the 20% miss chance. Again nothing about vision in your square or 0ft away.
Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker cannot use sight to locate the target).
So at 10ft away or further a creature has 50% miss chance caused by being completely unable to see the creature. Still not reading anything about the mist affecting your own square.
After that the 2nd paragraph goes into rules to disperse the mist. So with the above information it means that a creature in your square does NOT suffer any miss chance do to Obscuring Mist, but if in any other square they would start at 20%.
|
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
The description says creatures 5ft away have 20% not creatures in your actual square.
That is your interpretation, I don't share it.
I see two valid interpretations of the RAW:
1) Yours which seems to violate RAI.
2) Mine which (to me) seems to match what makes sense and seems to match RAI.
The rules are not precise enough in language to prove one side or the other so I guess it comes down to "Ask your DM."
Basically your interpretations has this flaw:
1) anything 4 ft 11 inches from you or less are not obscured.
2) anything precisely 5 ft from you is concealed 20%.
3) anything 5 ft 1 inch from you or more is total concealed.
The description says creatures 5ft away have 20% not creatures in your actual square.That is your interpretation, I don't share it.
I see two valid interpretations of the RAW:
1) Yours which seems to violate RAI.
2) Mine which (to me) seems to match what makes sense and seems to match RAI.
I don't mean this the way it reads, but; How do you know what the intent of the rules are?
I ask this not knowing if you're actually employed by pazio or not.
The rules are not precise enough in language to prove one side or the other so I guess it comes down to "Ask your DM."
This.