How should thrown non-melee weapons (eg, javelins, darts, shuriken) be priced when constructed from alchemical silver or adamantine? Should they be priced as ammunition or as light weapons?
Shuriken are for sure priced as ammunition. They're a special case that way. The rest, yeah, probably light weapons is best.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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How should thrown non-melee weapons (eg, javelins, darts, shuriken) be priced when constructed from alchemical silver or adamantine? Should they be priced as ammunition or as light weapons?
Depends on the weapon.
Javelin, Dart are weapons neither are light.
Shuriken are Ammo.
Thrown weapons are one handed unless their description says otherwise (like Spear, Dagger, etc.)
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Depends on the weapon.
Javelin, Dart are weapons neither are light.
Shuriken are Ammo.Thrown weapons are one handed unless their description says otherwise (like Spear, Dagger, etc.)
I've been trying to come up with a consistent rule that would make sense for throwable daggers, throwing axes, as well as javelins, darts, and shuriken. Here are two possibilities:
* If the weapon cannot be used twice in the same combat (without being retrieved), then price it like ammunition. So even javelins are treated as ammo, while throwing daggers (which can be used as melee weapons) are not.
* Base the price on weight/size; if it weighs less than a pound and fits in the palm of your hand, price it as ammunition; this means darts and shuriken are ammo, while javelins, which are long and weigh 2 lbs, are priced like light weapons.
Javelin, Dart are weapons neither are light.
Shuriken are Ammo.Thrown weapons are one handed unless their description says otherwise (like Spear, Dagger, etc.)
Based on what? Is there a line that says to assume one-handed unless it states otherwise?
Javelins and Darts are the only weapons that this question really pertains to since I presume the OP is looking to make Silver or Adamantine (or Mithral I suppose) versions of the weapons. Blowguns and Slings you'd just deal with the ammo. Everything else is nicely categorized.
Javelins, I suppose I could possibly see being categorized as one-handed. Keep in mind however that they are smaller and lighter than shortspears (a one-handed weapon).
Darts though, seriously? They weigh 1/6th of handaxes and light picks, which are considered light weapons. Even if we're talking lawn darts here, I can't see them taking more effort to wield than a dagger or short sword.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I've been trying to come up with a consistent rule
PRPG p141 has most of the rules you need, there is no need to make house rules.
Based on what? Is there a line that says to assume one-handed unless it states otherwise?
Javelins and Darts are the only weapons that this question really pertains
I can't find a direct rule for Javelin/Darts saying they are One Handed or Light.
So I guess it is up to the DM for those two items.
I'd classify the dart as light simply because they're... well... light. Lighter than a dagger, even.
Anywho, the thing to be wary of is that if you price an item as a persistent weapon, you actually make it persistent. If you price it as ammunition, you treat it as ammunition. So, while it's perfectly fair (and indeed the rule) to treat darts like any other normal weapon as opposed to ammo, you should mind that the players can then retrieve their darts and they're not subject to that 50% chance of being lost. If you houserule that darts are to be treated like ammunition, in the same manner as shuriken, mind that you do impose the 50% loss chance.
I would suggest pricing all thrown weapons as daggers or light weapons except perhaps the spear. They are generally long wooden shafts with metal tips roughly the size of a dagger.
Spears tend to have larger heads made of more metal.
* If the weapon cannot be used twice in the same combat (without being retrieved), then price it like ammunition. So even javelins are treated as ammo, while throwing daggers (which can be used as melee weapons) are not.
This ignores the fact that ammo is destroyed on a hit and lost 50% of the time on a miss.
Since most thrown weapons can be used in melee, I wouldn't want to reduce the price over the melee version. Darts should probably be a special case as as shuriken, although they are not called out as such...unless you are talking about darts from a blowgun.
* If the weapon cannot be used twice in the same combat (without being retrieved), then price it like ammunition. So even javelins are treated as ammo, while throwing daggers (which can be used as melee weapons) are not.This ignores the fact that ammo is destroyed on a hit and lost 50% of the time on a miss.
Since most thrown weapons can be used in melee, I wouldn't want to reduce the price over the melee version. Darts should probably be a special case as as shuriken, although they are not called out as such...unless you are talking about darts from a blowgun.
Well darts, javelins, and bolas. I'm not sure I'd price them as ammo unless you want to extend that to the 50% missing/ destroyed on impact bit (but then weight becomes an issue).
With the darts/ javelins I would be tempted to price them at 20-50% of the price of melee weapons since they are used far less. Maybe a sell them as a set of 5 for the full price.
That's kind of the big bummer of throwing weapons, really hard to optimize them at all when you have to stock 5-10 of them.
I suppose a simple fix would be to change the returning property so it's a fixed cost instead of a +1. Adding a flat 1000-2000GP to the cost rather than adding 2000-4000+ depending on the weapon.
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This ignores the fact that ammo is destroyed on a hit and lost 50% of the time on a miss.
Not at all; darts, shuriken and javelins aren't covered by the ammunition rules on p. 141 (they're under "thrown weapons").
Since most thrown weapons can be used in melee, I wouldn't want to reduce the price over the melee version.
Agreed; I'd reached the same conclusion myself; in fact my rule is more extensive: if a particular weapon can be used in two different "modes", then enhancement is priced for the more expensive mode. So, throwing axes are priced as light weapons (although they can be thrown); bastard swords are priced as two-handed weapons (even though they can also be used as one-handed weapons).
Darts should probably be a special case as as shuriken, although they are not called out as such...unless you are talking about darts from a blowgun.
No, thrown darts. Blowgun darts are clearly ammunition.
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Well darts, javelins, and bolas. I'm not sure I'd price them as ammo unless you want to extend that to the 50% missing/ destroyed on impact bit (but then weight becomes an issue).
Good point...and I'm cravenly avoiding the question with bolas by simply ruling that they fall into the class of weapons that cannot be enhanced with silver, cold iron, or adamantine.
With the darts/ javelins I would be tempted to price them at 20-50% of the price of melee weapons since they are used far less. Maybe a sell them as a set of 5 for the full price.
That's kind of the big bummer of throwing weapons, really hard to optimize them at all when you have to stock 5-10 of them.
I suppose a simple fix would be to change the returning property so it's a fixed cost instead of a +1. Adding a flat 1000-2000GP to the cost rather than adding 2000-4000+ depending on the weapon.
I hadn't even gotten to the magical enhancements yet. That is something I'll have to think about.