WARPATH: Mass Combat Rules -- PRE-ORDER


Product Discussion

1 to 50 of 191 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>

WARPATH: Mass Combat Rules from Adamant Entertainment now available for Pre-Order

Cry Havoc and Let Slip The Dogs of War!

The clash of grand armies comes to your game world! Designed by Hank Woon (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook, Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Bestiary) and extensively playtested, WARPATH is a complete set of rules designed to give Game Masters and players all the tools they need to run anything from a tiny border skirmish to an all-out epic battle involving thousands of soldiers. The rules can be used for units as small as one to as many as needed, and is designed to be fully compatible with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game system.

The 96-page rulebook contains rules for:

* Unit Design
* Combat and Tactics
* Battlefield Maneuvers
* Spells and Spell-like Abilities
* Army Leaders
* Battlefield Design and Set-up
* Casualties, Prisoners and Consequences
* Siege Warfare and Fortifications
* A Quick-play version of the rules for fast results
* Campaign rules, example units and battlefields, and More!

Warpath will ship to game stores in February. We're now offering a special pre-order deal: Pre-order customers who purchase Warpath in advance will receive a copy of the book shipped to them in December, two months earlier than the general release, and they'll also receive a PDF copy as well, all for $19.99 plus $7.95 shipping and handling, world-wide.

Click here to check out the cover image!


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Cool! Ordered it right now.

Scarab Sages

Sounds good. If i had the money now I'd order now. We'll have to see I guess.


Wicht wrote:
Sounds good. If i had the money now I'd order now. We'll have to see I guess.

We'll be running the pre-order through October.


Great cover!! Any info you can pass along as to the artist?

AJC

Dark Archive

Got my preorder in. Looking forward to this.


I get paid in two weeks. Looks like I will have something to add to my bills.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Pre-ordered.


Surprisingly low amount of pre-orders so far, so I'm posting to make sure that people have seen this.

What sort of previews would you like to see from WARPATH -- or what questions would you like answered?


Gareth-Michael Skarka wrote:

Surprisingly low amount of pre-orders so far, so I'm posting to make sure that people have seen this.

What sort of previews would you like to see from WARPATH -- or what questions would you like answered?

For me, I'd like to just purchase the .PDF rather than have a hardcopy for my library. I didn't see that being a specific option on the page -- if I overlooked it can you please point it out? Also, what is the price for just the electronic version (assuming it can be purchased solo)?


Gareth-Michael Skarka wrote:

Surprisingly low amount of pre-orders so far, so I'm posting to make sure that people have seen this.

What sort of previews would you like to see from WARPATH -- or what questions would you like answered?

I plan on pre-ordering. I just need to get paid this week first. ~grins~


Garth, QUIT READING MY MIND!

Just this morning I was wondering if there was a mass combat system available.

Yes I'll per-order as soon as I can.


WyvernSting wrote:
For me, I'd like to just purchase the .PDF rather than have a hardcopy for my library. I didn't see that being a specific option on the page -- if I overlooked it can you please point it out? Also, what is the price for just the electronic version (assuming it can be purchased solo)?

Well, the pre-order is for the print + PDF -- the main release of the PDF will be in December (which is when pre-order customers will receive PDF and print), with the print release in February.

The PDF on its own will be around 10 dollars.

The Exchange

Gareth-Michael Skarka wrote:

Surprisingly low amount of pre-orders so far, so I'm posting to make sure that people have seen this.

What sort of previews would you like to see from WARPATH -- or what questions would you like answered?

I've pre-ordered this both because I want to support those supporting Pathfinder and because this could be perfect for finishing off a war that I've been promising my gaming group for some time :)

I note that Jason did comment in Oz that he had a set of mass-battle rules that were not yet ready for public consumption. Hopefully that isn't causing people to wait and see.

I'm just hoping that the editing of Warpath is a little better than Tome of Secrets and Fell Beasts I.

Contributor

brock wrote:


I note that Jason did comment in Oz that he had a set of mass-battle rules that were not yet ready for public consumption. Hopefully that isn't causing people to wait and see.

I originally pitched the idea for mass combat to Paizo while an intern, and they entertained the idea for a while, but then they told me that they wouldn't be doing mass combat before 2011 or so, if they touched it at all (though I got the feeling it was something they wanted to get to eventually, but it just wasn't something that is a high priority for them). Instead, they were going with more abstract rules, which they've mentioned here and there, that will come with their Kingmaker AP, which debuts next year.

As for my rules, I operated under three main design philosophies:

1) They should be easy to learn, and creating a unit shouldn't be difficult or take very long.

2) The math should work for any number of troops. I always dislike mass combat rules that make you switch game mechanics if there aren't enough combatants involved. In my opinion, if the math is correct in the first place, it shouldn't matter if a unit has 1 or 1,000 troops in it--you should be able to use the same mechanics either way.

3) The rules should reflect real tactics. If you are a fan of ancient/Medieval warfare, you can watch your favorite documentary or read your favorite book and take the tactics learned and apply them on the battlefield with these rules for the same results. This last one was of particular importance to me, as I have a degree in history and my forte was Medieval and ancient warfare. (Of course, magic is absolutely lethal on the battlefield, so make sure you're not outgunned!)

In addition, I have had a strong interest in wargames for as long as I've been playing RPGs (20 years now), getting my first experience with AD&D 2nd edition's Battlesystem rules, which we used extensively back then.

In fact, I've designed several wargames for my gaming group over the years. The last one was a Game of Thrones--I designed a website rulebook, complete with music, art, and a clickable map of Westeros (with an icon for each city and castle--nearly 200 in all--that took you to the House's page with game stats) for my players. It was a lot of work, and we only played once, but it was also a lot of fun. ;)

Spoiler:

The Game of Thrones campaign saw House Greyjoy come out on top. The Greyjoys had longships, making them the only House capable of sailing up the rivers (the Tyrells and Tullys had access to river barges, but those weren't as swift). House Tyrell had the largest army, but that player personally distrusted the player of House Greyjoy (with good reason, in hindsight), so moved most of his troops toward the coast, leaving his inland holdings lightly protected. Using spies, House Greyjoy learned of this mistake. He feinted with a token army toward the coast, drawing Tyrell's troops, and then under the cover of darkness sailed his longships up the rivers, simultaneously attacking all of his lightly defending holdings. He conquered about 70% of them, which was enough to force House Tully to capitulate.

Greyjoy allowed the Tyrell player to keep playing--leaving him Highgarden to run--and then moved his attentions to House Martell. With House Tully occupied with trying to keep House Stark in the north and House Baratheon worried about the imminent invasion of House Targaryen from across the sea, Martell was no match for House Greyjoy, and after a few rounds, he too had to bend the knee. That left Greyjoy as the most powerful house on the map, and there was no stopping him then!

The Exchange

Hank Woon wrote:


As for my rules, I operated under three main design philosophies:

... lots of good stuff ...

Now this makes me feel much much better about pre-ordering. Especially if any of the 'war' level rules that you have developed in the past make it into Warpath, which I am currently presuming is at the level of individual battles.

Scarab Sages

I'll likely try to preorder in a couple of weeks. Too many bills this pay cycle.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Hank Woon wrote:


As for my rules, I operated under three main design philosophies:

Wow these sound exactly like what I've been looking for. I've never been entirely satisfied with all the 3.x mass combat systems I've come across. A couple questions:

(1) How closely are units derived from the base creature? For example, will a unit of goblins play differently than a unit of humans or orcs?
and

(2) How well does the system handle a heroic character's unique abilities and attacks alongside/against units?

I'd really like to smoothly handle both tactical scale heroic actions alongside unit actions together rather than keeping them separate. I am a fan of Unit templates (like the mob template except waay better built) and handling units as vehicles/creatures for this reason. Any chance something like this appears in the design?

Contributor

Liquidsabre wrote:


Wow these sound exactly like what I've been looking for. I've never been entirely satisfied with all the 3.x mass combat systems I've come across.

I know how you feel; I was inspired precisely because I was disappointed with every mass combat system I've seen thus far (while some are better than others, none quite captured the exact feel I wanted for my games).

Liquidsabre wrote:


A couple questions:

(1) How closely are units derived from the base creature? For example, will a unit of goblins play differently than a unit of humans or orcs?

Unit stats are derived directly from the creatures' stats--is that what you mean? There are also other considerations (like a unit of chaotic creatures having less discipline on the battlefield than a unit of lawful creatures, etc.).

Liquidsabre wrote:


and

(2) How well does the system handle a heroic character's unique abilities and attacks alongside/against units?

I'd really like to smoothly handle both tactical scale heroic actions alongside unit actions together rather than keeping them separate. I am a fan of Unit templates (like the mob template except waay better built) and handling units as vehicles/creatures for this reason. Any chance something like this appears in the design?

The system is designed so a lone PC can be a unit all by himself, while surrounded by units filled with hundreds (or however many you want) each. (In fact, the rules kind of demand that players stat up their characters as units.)

During playtesting, we always had PCs play within units, however (becoming leaders). The idea is that if a group of players are asked by a king to help lead an army, then each player could become a commander, take control of x-amount of units, and "embed" their characters into specific units that they control. This helps protect the player's character somewhat (he can surround himself with elite bodyguards, for example).

But yes, the rules allow you to have the PCs (or just one of the PCs--maybe a barbarian who isn't much of a leader but can sure kick some ass) as individual units themselves, not leading other soldiers and simply wading into the action.

As leaders, however, the PCs can give tremendous bonuses to troops' morale (read: Julius Caesar at the Battle of Alesia, riding along the lines of the fortification, shouting encouragement to his legions as they held off 160,000 screaming Gauls!). Also, some players might get a kick out of controlling a portion of the army (though this is all up to the GM, of course).

The rules can also be played without PCs--there are point-buy rules that allow players to get together, purchase their armies, then go to town (making it a sort of stand-alone game, if people want to play it that way), with accompanying rules for running and building kingdoms, empires, or city-states.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

This is just sounding more awesome with every post. Now, how to justify the expense to my husband....mmm...got it...get it for him for Christmas....heh, heh, heh.

Liberty's Edge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

Hank,

This one does sound very cool. Looking forward to seeing the finished product!

Cheers!


If you are helping write it Hank, then I will be buying it!

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Thanks for the replies Hank. Count me in as a fan! I will definitely be putting in my pre-order for this.

Btw, a quick question for GM Skarka: I was wondering if we were going to start seeing a bit more uniformity in art quality in AE's books? I hope success continues to come to AE followed by an improvement with interior art quality. So far I've seen a few great art reprints in Tome of Secrets coupled with a lot of mediocre to poor quality B&W art in the interior. The contrast in quality is a bit odd to see when paging through the book.

As for Warpath previews I would love to see an example unit or two and how building a unit, race, and tactics make them unique and flavorful!


Sharoth wrote:
If you are helping write it Hank, then I will be buying it!

He's not just helping -- he's the primary author and designer!

Liquidsabre wrote:
Btw, a quick question for GM Skarka: I was wondering if we were going to start seeing a bit more uniformity in art quality in AE's books? I hope success continues to come to AE followed by an improvement with interior art quality.

If you're expecting Paizo-level art (color, fully painted, etc.), I'm afraid to disappoint, but that's far outside of our budget. Right now, we go with what we can afford -- which is primarily second-use material purchased from artists, rather than original commissions. I'm hoping, as you suggest, that we'll get successful enough for that to change. I'd love to double our art budget!


Gareth-Michael Skarka wrote:
Sharoth wrote:
If you are helping write it Hank, then I will be buying it!

He's not just helping -- he's the primary author and designer!

Oh, in that case, never mind then! ~grins~ ;-P


I'd pre-order the PDF right now, but have no need for the print version unfortunately...

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

No worries GMSkarka, completely understand. I really don't mind B&W art at all! Understandably you're sourcing from several different artists. I was only commenting that having the art styles and level of quality (wherever that level might be) to match as closely as possible would help with the consistency and look of the interior layout. Just some constructive feedback for you guys. Enjyoing Tome of Secrets and looking forward to Warpath!

Btw the cover art for WP happens to be one my favorite pieces, nice choice! :)

Contributor

Liquidsabre wrote:


As for Warpath previews I would love to see an example unit or two and how building a unit, race, and tactics make them unique and flavorful!

Don't forget how different weapons play into tactics. ;)

Scarab Sages

Well, I preordered and look forward to getting it.


This looks quite cool.


Also pre-ordered. Any chance of an example combat or two? Frankly, I think that's the best way to show people how differing equipment, tactics and units tend to interact...

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Think I'll take one too - I'm curious to see what Mr Woon can pull out of his sleeve :-)

Contributor

carborundum wrote:
Think I'll take one too - I'm curious to see what Mr Woon can pull out of his sleeve :-)

And for my next trick... ;)

Regarding combat examples...

I'm not sure how detailed of an example we can give without spilling the beans on the whole system, and that's all really up to Gareth, anyway.

However, let me give you an example without really giving an example:

The Battle of Pharsalus
In 48 B.C.E, on a rugged spit of land in Greece, two armies of the Late Roman Republic met in a decisive battle for the fate of antiquity's greatest empire.

The champion defender of the Republic, fielding an army some 45,000 strong, was Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus--Pompey the Great, who was renowned for expanding the Republic’s lands through his conquests in Spain during his youth, and who had even helped mop up the remnants of the mighty Spartacus’s army during the Third Servile War.

Across the field from him, beneath legionary banners that had been marched through war across rolling Spanish hills, through the dark forests of Gaul, and even the fog-shrouded lands of Britain at the end of the world, stood Gaius Julius Caesar, a man who sought to make himself king.

Spoiler:

GAME NOTES: The leaders you choose for your armies in Warpath directly affect many aspects of the battle, from terrain advantage to troop morale.

Though Pompey’s forces were greater in number, they lacked the experience of Caesar’s grim, disciplined troops, most who had been on campaign for over a decade. Realizing this, Pompey had initially attempted to cut off Caesar’s supply lines, hoping that the would-be dictator would run out food, denarii, or both.

Spoiler:

GAME NOTES: Size matters! A numerical advantage is always a good way to swing the fates to your cause. However, size isn’t everything, and experienced troops can easily take on raw recruits. In Warpath, numerical advantages between units are reflected by a new stat called the Mass Rating, which affects your unit’s damage output—the bigger you are, the harder you hit. Most of your units’ stats are taken directly from the creatures’ statblocks, however, meaning that a unit of 100 3rd-level fighters versus a unit of 100 1st-level fighters will have the same statistical advantages/disadvantages as 1 3rd-level fighter versus 1 1st-level fighter in regular Pathfinder rules. However, a unit of 100 1st-level fighters versus a unit of 25 3rd-level fighters will have an advantage… though again, size isn’t everything.

And finally, an army marches on its stomach. Rules for how much food an army requires per day, rules for foraging, how long an army’s baggage train extends, how many noncombatants are required to help run an army while on campaign, how many miles an army can march per day (regular or forced), the threats of disease and desertion, and of course, the most important, how much gold an army requires, are all provided in Warpath. If an enemy commander can disrupt these vital requisites for his opponent’s army, he can watch how quickly it scatters like dry leaves in a strong wind.

In response, Caesar attempted to lay siege to Pompey’s winter fort. Already outnumbered, Caesar was forced to spread his forces thin in order to ensure a complete blockade. Sensing an opportunity, Pompey sallied forth in strength, throwing back Caesar’s scattered forces, who retreated, lifting the siege.

Spoiler:

GAME NOTES: Rules for laying siege to a fortification (including the size or an army needed to accomplish such a task), siege warfare (assault ladder, battering rams, undermining, and so on), starving a defender out, and more, are all provided in Warpath.

Emboldened by his success, Pompey, at the urging of his Senatorial allies, decided to meet Caesar on the open field. He chose an area where the natural terrain would afford his troops a bit of protection. He found the perfect place where the swift-flowing Enepius River would protect his right flank in the Pharsalian Plains, to the north of the city Pharsalus.

Pompey deployed his troops in three battle lines, with his cavalry—600 strong—deployed on his left. His plan was simple: He would punch through Caesar’s right flank with his mounted troops and swing back around, outflanking the rest of his legions.

Caesar anticipated this stratagem. First, in order to match the width Pompey’s lines in order to prevent being outflanked, Caesar stretched his forces thin, reducing the overall depth of his lines. He then placed his own meager auxiliary cavalry of Germans and Gauls on his right flank to match Pompey’s. However, it was clear that they were far outnumbered by Pompey’s horse, and so he pulled up his reserves, instructing them to use their pila (the Roman javelins) as spears to repulse the cavalry, thus creating an impromptu phalanx/pikeman unit.

Both armies’ camps were far behind their respective lines, well protected.

Spoiler:

GAME NOTES: Jockeying for position and picking a battlefield for strategic terrain advantage is key in battle and thus reflected in Warpath.

Troop deployment is likewise just as critical: Battles are won by outmaneuvering your opponent on the field of battle, not through mindless attrition, and again, the rules reflect this fact. Historically, most casualties in battle occurred when one side routed, as it is hard to defend yourself when your unit is in disarray and disorganized. This is accomplished by breaking through your enemy’s lines, disrupting his formations, flanking his units, or capturing, killing, or otherwise driving the general from the field.

Cavalry is always a superior force on the ancient battlefield. While at the time of the Battle of Pharsalus the use of heavy cavalry and shock tactics had yet come to be, the maneuverability of the mounted warrior was still a very prized tactical advantage (and thus why the Equestrian class was born in Roman society). In Warpath, mounted troops have a significant bonus to their Mass Ratings, AC, and even to the amount of damage they can soak up. In addition, their charges can be devastating. To neutralize this in ancient battles, reach weapons were used (a la Braveheart!), which Caesar took full advantage of at Pharsalus.

And finally, formations were the weapons of mass combat. The wedge, the hedgehog, the phalanx—each had its own distinct advantages and disadvantages. But in order to perform many of these formations, troops had to be outfitted correctly for the job (for example, it’s hard to form up into a shield wall or testudo without a shield!).

When the battle trumpets sounded, Caesar’s men charged, but slowed when they saw that Pompey’s men held firm. Once the two lines were engaged, Pompey ordered his cavalry to charge Caesar’s right flank. Caesar, in response, sent in his cavalry. Much bloodshed followed, but for the moment, both sides held firm, locked in their titanic struggle. Finally, Pompey’s cavalry broke Caesar’s cavalry, and the latter turned and fled, routed from the field of battle.

It was at this moment when Caesar sent his reserves in to meet Pompey’s cavalry, which was being led by Titus Labienus, Caesar’s former legate who had served him with distinction during the Gallic campaigns and had defected to Pompey’s camp once the Civil War began. Caesar’s disciplined troops, though outnumbered, were devastating with their pila. Labienus, though putting up a good fight, was eventually repulsed, completely routed from the field.

The right flank was Caesar’s! With no one to stop them, Caesar’s reserves charged, outmaneuvering Pompey’s exposed left flank. The first unit crumbled, routing, and then the next, and the next, so on down the line until Pompey’s entire army was set to flight.

Spoiler:

GAME NOTES: While a general is the ultimate commander of an army, he needs trusted lieutenants to help command his troops, such as Labienus who commanded Pompey’s cavalry. In Warpath, these commanders can be the PCs. Commanders offer bonuses to morale, and in some cases, attack and damage.

Caesar charged onward to Pompey’s camp, which quickly fell to his forces. Pompey fled to Egypt, where he was assassinated. After mopping up the rest of the Pompeians in Africa, Caesar was left as the undisputed ruler of Rome.

Spoiler:

GAME NOTES: An army’s camp is its livelihood. History is riddled with examples of troops abandoning their lines to hurry back and protect their camp. Likewise, there are just as many examples of a superior force breaking through an enemy’s lines, and rather than turning about to flank, they charge onward to the camp for loot and plunder. The rules in Warpath reflect this aspect of warfare.

Scarab Sages

Thank you for the insight into some of the rules and their affects. Interesting reading. But... ;)

Back when I was still buying Warhammer armies, I would read White Dwarf mainly for the battle reports. I loved those, with their diagrams of which units moved where, their snapshots of the field of battle and their turn by turn account of how the dice fell and what the commanders where thinking and how the rules interacted with the actual battlefield. That's what I think of when I think of a battle report for a wargame.

Edit: That sounds a bit whiny. I did enjoy the read. Just was interested in how a game session actually plays.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Now available for preorder from paizo.com.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

Vic,

Does the Paizo preorder come with the cool free PDF and the December release date, or is that just through Adamant's own site

I will be pre-ordering this, but am waiting til the end of the month as the Australian dollar keeps on getting stronger against the US dollar.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

sanwah68 wrote:

Vic,

Does the Paizo preorder come with the cool free PDF and the December release date, or is that just through Adamant's own site

I will be pre-ordering this, but am waiting til the end of the month as the Australian dollar keeps on getting stronger against the US dollar.

That's good only through Adamant.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

I thought so but had to ask....thanks for the prompt response.

Dark Archive

Hank Woon wrote:

Spoiler:

GAME NOTES: Size matters!

Haha, I always knew it!

Oh, and I pre-ordred. The Battle of Pharsalis example did it for me.

Adrian Goldsworthy:
For all who love the history of the Roman Army and Battles the Romans did, I strongly advise to look Adrian Goldsworthy's works. They are very well researched and easy to read.

Contributor

@Adrian Goldsworthy: I agree! I have his Caesar: Life of a Colossus, and it's a good read.

Contributor

Also, the campaign rules involve how to build and run your own cities/kingdoms. Though not as indepth as they could be, there is always the possibility of expansion later on...

Dark Archive

Hank Woon wrote:
@Adrian Goldsworthy: I agree! I have his Caesar: Life of a Colossus, and it's a good read.

If you liked Goldsworthy's writing in Caesar, you should really check out "The Fall of Carthage: The Punic Wars 265-146 BC".

And "In the Name of Rome: The Men Who Won the Roman Empire".

Amazing reads.

Contributor

I'll have to check those out!

Contributor

Only another month for those of you who preordered!

The Exchange

Hank Woon wrote:
Only another month for those of you who preordered!

Only another month for those of you who are writing it :)

Contributor

brock wrote:
Hank Woon wrote:
Only another month for those of you who preordered!
Only another month for those of you who are writing it :)

Hey, good point... sweet! =)

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Is this almost ready for pre-order pdf in December goodness?

I've got the attack on Farshore coming up in my Savage Tide game and this is the perfect way to play it out.

Contributor

carborundum wrote:

Is this almost ready for pre-order pdf in December goodness?

I've got the attack on Farshore coming up in my Savage Tide game and this is the perfect way to play it out.

I was told that the preorders would be shipping out no later than December 18th.

Let me know how the attack on Farshore goes!

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Thanks Hank - that's in six days tops - whoohoo! If only I hadn't introduced a rakshasa spy into the mix, we could cut straight to the invasion on the 23rd (when we play again). Maybe I'll just have the spy teleport out.


I just love Julius Caesar quotes

1 to 50 of 191 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Third-Party Pathfinder RPG Products / Product Discussion / WARPATH: Mass Combat Rules -- PRE-ORDER All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.