Barbarians' bite


Rules Questions


Regarding the Animal Fury rage power, does the barbarian gain a secondary natural attack in the sense that normal penalties apply for using it in combination with normal weapons or this a special circumstance.

It would seem to make the most sense to treat it as a normal natural weapon, but that really makes it nigh worthless without two weapon fighting.

From the barbarian class section:

Quote:
Animal Fury (Ex): While raging, the barbarian gains a bite attack. If used as part of a full attack action, the bite attack is made at the barbarian's full base attack bonus –5. If the bite hits, it deals 1d4 points of damage (assuming the barbarian is Medium; 1d3 points of damage if Small) plus half the barbarian's Strength modifier. A barbarian can make a bite attack as part of the action to maintain or break free from a grapple. This attack is resolved before the grapple check is made. If the bite attack hits, any grapple checks made by the barbarian against the target this round are at a +2 bonus.

From the combat section:

Quote:
You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. In addition, all of your attacks made with melee weapons and unarmed strikes are made as if you were two-weapon fighting. Your natural attacks are treated as light, off-hand weapons for determining the penalty to your other attacks. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.

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Some call me Tim wrote:

Regarding the Animal Fury rage power, does the barbarian gain a secondary natural attack in the sense that normal penalties apply for using it in combination with normal weapons or this a special circumstance.

It would seem to make the most sense to treat it as a normal natural weapon, but that really makes it nigh worthless without two weapon fighting.

From the barbarian class section:

Quote:
Animal Fury (Ex): While raging, the barbarian gains a bite attack. If used as part of a full attack action, the bite attack is made at the barbarian's full base attack bonus –5. If the bite hits, it deals 1d4 points of damage (assuming the barbarian is Medium; 1d3 points of damage if Small) plus half the barbarian's Strength modifier. A barbarian can make a bite attack as part of the action to maintain or break free from a grapple. This attack is resolved before the grapple check is made. If the bite attack hits, any grapple checks made by the barbarian against the target this round are at a +2 bonus.

From the combat section:

Quote:
You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. In addition, all of your attacks made with melee weapons and unarmed strikes are made as if you were two-weapon fighting. Your natural attacks are treated as light, off-hand weapons for determining the penalty to your other attacks. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.

The Animal Fury bite attack should be classified as a special attack rather than a natural attack even though the combat section would seem to state otherwise. If a -2 were to be applied to all other full round attacks in addition, it should have been stated in the text of the ability, either by stating that it follows all natural weapons attack rules or by stating it explicitly. As it does neither of these things, it should be considered a Special Attack granted by this Barbarian ability granting one additional attack that suffers solely a -5 penalty.

Dark Archive

Does Animal Fury allow the barbarian to add his str adjustment to hit or is it purely BAB.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Some call me Tim wrote:


From the combat section:

Quote:
You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. In addition, all of your attacks made with melee weapons and unarmed strikes are made as if you were two-weapon fighting. Your natural attacks are treated as light, off-hand weapons for determining the penalty to your other attacks. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.

Pathfinder pretty clearly doesn't follow this ruling about applying two-weapon fighting to attacks made with melee weapons. You can reference any most with natural attacks and weapon attacks.

I'd just apply the all natural attacks are seconary, and forget the two-weapon fighting bit unless you are actually wielding two weapons.


daniel gaziano wrote:
Does Animal Fury allow the barbarian to add his str adjustment to hit or is it purely BAB.

I assumed it was Strength (or dex presumably if you're some weirdo barbarian with weapon finesse) plus any other modifiers. Otherwise it would be relatively useless especially at high levels. It already doesn't scale particularly well, but its a nice free extra attack and who can complain right?

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