Great Grapple clarification requested.


Rules Questions


On page 125, this feat states:

"Once you have grappled a creature, maintaining the grapple is a move action. This feat allows you to make two grapple checks each round (to move, harm, or pin your opponent), but you are not required to make two checks. You only need to succeed at one of these checks to maintain the grapple."

Questions:
1) Was the inclusion of "move, harm and pin" examples of what you can do while grappling, or are they the only things you can do when you use this feat. (i.e. If you are unsuccessful with your first grapple attempt, can you make a second attempt to grapple or can that second attempt only be used for move/harm/pin)?
2) Does the last sentence mean that I don't have to even bother trying to use my move action to grapple. Assuming I successfully grappled the foe in the previous round, do I just attempt a move/harm/pin in this round, in which a success means that the grapple is maintained?


Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:

1) Was the inclusion of "move, harm and pin" examples of what you can do while grappling, or are they the only things you can do when you use this feat. (i.e. If you are unsuccessful with your first grapple attempt, can you make a second attempt to grapple or can that second attempt only be used for move/harm/pin)?

This is confusing. Normally, when giving examples, it includes text like "such as", which this doesn't. However, if the intent was to limit your possible actions with the extra check, then I wouldn't expect the parentheses.

Most of the time, it probably won't matter, since the only option you have that isn't included is to tie them up. As written, would lean toward saying that you can't use the two attempts to tie them.

Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:

2) Does the last sentence mean that I don't have to even bother trying to use my move action to grapple. Assuming I successfully grappled the foe in the previous round, do I just attempt a move/harm/pin in this round, in which a success means that the grapple is maintained?

If you are in control of a grapple, you never make a check just to maintain the grapple. You make a check which, if successful, both maintains the grapple and moves/harms/pins/ties up the opponent.


Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:

On page 125, this feat states:

"Once you have grappled a creature, maintaining the grapple is a move action. This feat allows you to make two grapple checks each round (to move, harm, or pin your opponent), but you are not required to make two checks. You only need to succeed at one of these checks to maintain the grapple."

Questions:
1) Was the inclusion of "move, harm and pin" examples of what you can do while grappling, or are they the only things you can do when you use this feat. (i.e. If you are unsuccessful with your first grapple attempt, can you make a second attempt to grapple or can that second attempt only be used for move/harm/pin)?
2) Does the last sentence mean that I don't have to even bother trying to use my move action to grapple. Assuming I successfully grappled the foe in the previous round, do I just attempt a move/harm/pin in this round, in which a success means that the grapple is maintained?

I don't think the "move, harm and pin" are examples, it's a list of what you can do (there's no for instance, or i.e., e.g., etc...).

The last sentence means that if you succeed on an attempt to move but fail on an attempt to harm your victem doesn't go free because you failed. Once you succeed in a round you're fine. However, you have to succeed every round.

Also, if you don't want to move or harm or pin you can just hold them in place (though that would be very situational).


If you make a successful grapple check on any round after the first, then you can choose to Move, Damage, or Pin your opponent (or Tie Up -- I think they just overlooked that option). Those are the only 3 (or 4) things you can do with a successful grapple check. If you don't make at least one successful grapple check in that round, the grapple ends. So what's the confusion about?


Note that, grammatically speaking, putting "to move, harm, or pin" into parentheses makes them essentially an example, regardless of the presence of "for example" or not. That's because they become (literally) a parenthetical phrase, which is one that is not essential to the meaning of the sentence that contains it. In other words, a parenthetical phrase is there to illustrate, not to delineate.

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