Point Blank Shot / Precise Shot for Ranged Touch Spells?


Rules Questions


1. Do ranged touch spells suffer the -4 penalty for shooting into melee?
2. Do either of the feats Point Blank Shot or Precise Shot work for Ranged Touch spells?

a) It SEEMS that the -4 penalty only applies to weapons, and the feats only apply to weapons as well...

3. Follow up question: How does this affect the new Hand of the Apprentice?


delslow wrote:

1. Do ranged touch spells suffer the -4 penalty for shooting into melee?

2. Do either of the feats Point Blank Shot or Precise Shot work for Ranged Touch spells?

a) It SEEMS that the -4 penalty only applies to weapons, and the feats only apply to weapons as well...

3. Follow up question: How does this affect the new Hand of the Apprentice?

1. Yes

2. Yes, both work.
2a. "Ray" is generally considered a weapon type.
3. Hand of the Apprentice is an ordinary ranged attack, just guided by your mind. It suffers the -4, and benefits from Point blank shot.


Majuba wrote:
delslow wrote:

1. Do ranged touch spells suffer the -4 penalty for shooting into melee?

2. Do either of the feats Point Blank Shot or Precise Shot work for Ranged Touch spells?

a) It SEEMS that the -4 penalty only applies to weapons, and the feats only apply to weapons as well...

3. Follow up question: How does this affect the new Hand of the Apprentice?

1. Yes

2. Yes, both work.
2a. "Ray" is generally considered a weapon type.
3. Hand of the Apprentice is an ordinary ranged attack, just guided by your mind. It suffers the -4, and benefits from Point blank shot.

I can't seem to find where it goes over that. Do you happen to have a page reference? The feats descriptions specifically state weapon, and the firing into melee specifically state weapon... so I guess I have to find where it states Ranged Touch attacks to be considered weapons.

Help anyone?


This is from the beta (only pdf I have at the moment) but I'm sure its not been changed much since then, and probably is nearly identical to 3.5 or 3.0 even.
"Ray: Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a
ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged
touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a
ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible
creature and hope you hit something. You don’t have to see
the creature you’re trying to hit, as you do with a targeted
spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can
block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature
you’re aiming at.
If a ray spell has a duration, it’s the duration of the
effect
that the ray causes, not the length of time the ray
itself persists.
If a ray spell deals damage, you can score a critical hit
just as if it were a weapon. A ray spell threatens a critical
hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a
successful critical hit."


Touch: You must touch a creature or object to affect it.
A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit
just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical
hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on
a successful
critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to
touch multiple targets. You can touch as many willing
targets as you can reach as part of the casting, but all targets
of the spell must be touched in the same round that
you finish casting the spell.


Touch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch
spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore
does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The act
of casting a spell, however, does provoke an attack of
opportunity. Touch attacks come in two types: melee
touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score
critical hits with either type of attack. Your opponent’s
AC against a touch attack does not include any armor
bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size
modif ier, Dexterity modif ier, and def lection bonus (if
any) all apply normally.


delslow wrote:
I can't seem to find where it goes over that. Do you happen to have a page reference? The feats descriptions specifically state weapon, and the firing into melee specifically state weapon... so I guess I have to find where it states Ranged Touch attacks to be considered weapons.

The previous poster quoting from the beta has your answer, and it seems unchanged in the Core rules.

Using a Ray is like using a ranged weapon. The penalty for firing into melee applies, as does the feat to ignore that penalty.

Likewise, firing your ray within 30 gets the Point Blank bonuses just like any ranged weapon would.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I didn't realize about the possibility of cover though for some reason... I guess I had magic missile on the brain and how it always hits and doesn't need an attack roll. I'll need to remember that cover might apply for ranged touch attacks.

If a target does have cover, is there a chance that the cover is hit? I know many people house rule that if the attack roll misses by less than the cover bonus, the attack hits the cover.

In other rolls, I roll an 18 to hit and the creature has an AC of 17. Normally that would be a hit. But there's a +4 cover bonus from an intervening creature standing immediately in front of the target. The target now has an effective AC of 21 and the attack roll now misses. Since the miss (by 3) is less than the cover bonus, the attack hits the cover instead.

But is that commonly used house rule an actual rule somewhere in PF {Beta|Final}?

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