In Byzantium Rangers and Border-Patrolmen used a weapon that was a longsword-quarterstaff hybrid.As with most European swords the blade length varied greatly.They called it 'Spathoravdi' which means sword-staff or sword-stick in Greek.
I want to incorporate this into my ongoing campaign as a variant to quarterstaff for spell-casting classes(mostly)
At first I thought it should do d8/d8 as it has an edge and the quarterstaff doesn't.
But in the bizarre world of r.p.g.s(where a longsword does the same damage as a wooden stick) I am not sure.
Any ideas?
PS:If it's not obvious by now its not a sword-cane.
Treat it as a glaive? Or as an exotic glaive that you can choose each round to use as a reach weapon (10 ft, no 5 ft) or not (5 ft only).
I'm not sure why it would be a double weapon, based on the description I just read.
Treat it as a glaive? Or as an exotic glaive that you can choose each round to use as a reach weapon (10 ft, no 5 ft) or not (5 ft only).
I'm not sure why it would be a double weapon, based on the description I just read.
The Scandinavian sword-staff is different ,its a pole-arm.
The byzantine sword-staff is a double weapon.(some even used a wooden sheath to make it look like a whole quarterstaff when not used.Its closer to a double sword with one part being wooden.)I am trying to find a picture to link here or an article.I have a book home about it but its in German. Also I found no wiki articles regarding this.
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Treat it as a glaive? Or as an exotic glaive that you can choose each round to use as a reach weapon (10 ft, no 5 ft) or not (5 ft only).
I'm not sure why it would be a double weapon, based on the description I just read.
The Scandinavian sword-staff is different ,its a pole-arm.
The byzantine sword-staff is a double weapon.(some even used a wooden sheath to make it look like a whole quarterstaff when not used.Its closer to a double sword with one part being wooden.)
I am trying to find a picture to link here or an article.I have a book home about it but its in German. Also I found no wiki articles regarding this.
Did you mean this, the Rhomphaia? The description kinda fits.
Did you mean this, the Rhomphaia? The description kinda fits.
Thank you..well in danger of being tedious here it goes:
I never could find a description of a Romphaia that made sense as to what kind of weapon it is.Some present it like in that article,others refer to it as the byzantine bastard sword.To make matters worse this controversy exists in sources from that time as well; where it's described as a ''broad-sword''.
If I am going to use the sword-staff in my World I'd prefer if it were closer to the weapon I mentioned originally.
Something akin to this:
DragonKatanaTwinSwords
So as another double weapon the question is:
d8/d8?(like the two bladed sword) d6/d6(like the quarterstaff) or d8/d6?
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I guess if you want to choke up on it... but if you want the most momentum in bringing the blade down on their noggins then I view it more as a polearm.
If one really wanted to go non-polearm, for me, I'd probably go with d6/d6 with the slashing/bludgeoning option. I'm not sure if you could do enough damage with the blade for longsword damage when choking up on the staff like that... ok, did that sound almost dirty? Plus, it's easier bookkeeping, did I hit him with my staff or with my sword... argh, my mind is in the gutter.
I guess if you want to choke up on it... but if you want the most momentum in bringing the blade down on their noggins then I view it more as a polearm.
If one really wanted to go non-polearm, for me, I'd probably go with d6/d6 with the slashing/bludgeoning option. I'm not sure if you could do enough damage with the blade for longsword damage when choking up on the staff like that... ok, did that sound almost dirty? Plus, it's easier bookkeeping, did I hit him with my staff or with my sword... argh, my mind is in the gutter.
Almost... ;-p
Well that's what I thought at first but this way its exactly like a quarterstaff...It only differs in description.As long as the blade cuts from both edges it does serious damage.Also by having a quarter of a staff as a handle you thrust better with it and have two hand use which means better momentum.I wont argue about a pole-arm being better as it is in most cases(still it differs with the technique in question and skill of user) I just wanted to use that exotic double weapon.
Since adnd speed of swinging or effectiveness etc are of little concern in actual battle mechanics.
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Well then, if I was GM then I'd say that it's a two handed martial weapon as a polearm similar to say a glaive. When someone takes the exotic weapon feat for this then I'd allow for double weapon goodness and yeah, I guess I'd allow for d8 (S/P)/d6 (B) as a double weapon, but then they can't be using it as a reach weapon for that round. I'm using the idea of how one can use bastard swords/dwarven war axes in both hands as a martial weapon but then one handed needs and exotic feat, not exactly the same thing but its an inspiration.
I'd probably incorporate some sort of penalty, such as a move action, to go from a reach weapon to a double weapon and vice versa. I remember there was 3.5 feat somewhere about short haft for fighting, can't remember if it was a fan made feat or from one of the later books. Anyway, I was thinking some sort of penalty as a way to balance since it's advantageous for someone having both a reach weapon and double close in fighting weapon all in one. Basically it would equal to say a fighter with a reach weapon and when the enemy gets close, they'd likely drop the polearm and hastily drawing their close in weapon for the immediate in your face threat.
Basically, somewhat similar to what pres man said earlier but with some difference.
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Did you mean this, the Rhomphaia? The description kinda fits.
If I am going to use the sword-staff in my World I'd prefer if it were closer to the weapon I mentioned originally.
Something akin to this:DragonKatanaTwinSwords
Ok, finally looked at the picture, that seems more akin to a sword with a larger than usual handle. What are the dimensions? For the weapon in the picture, I'm hesitant to give it reach, more like a longsword or great sword range depending on the length (or similar to that two handed elven sword).
Two-handed Martial weapon: (Double-weapon)
Swordstaff
10 gp
1d6/1d6
19-20x2/20x2
12 lbs
(P or S) or B
One end has a blade the size of a short sword that can be used for slashing or piercing damage, the other end can be used as a club.
Did you mean this, the Rhomphaia? The description kinda fits.
If I am going to use the sword-staff in my World I'd prefer if it were closer to the weapon I mentioned originally.
Something akin to this:
DragonKatanaTwinSwords
From what I gather the blade is either halfway between a short sword and a longsword or between a longsword and a bastard sword(big difference I know).As far as the wooden part is concerned more likely a bit smaller than half a quarterstaff.I guess when we finalize blade length the wooden part can change accordingly.
Also I agree with the idea of no reach.
Two-handed Martial weapon: (Double-weapon)
Swordstaff
10 gp
1d6/1d6
19-20x2/20x2
12 lbs
(P or S) or BOne end has a blade the size of a short sword that can be used for slashing or piercing damage, the other end can be used as a club.
Yeah I was thinking somewhere in the 10-12 lbs range too.And the rest of the stats make sense.
So you are not fond of the d8/d6 (m) d6/d4 (s) idea?
Also thinking of certain versions being spring loaded, with the blade shooting out of the wood.(provided that there is a penalty as they will not be sturdy enough)
Maybe something similar to the modular weapons rules.
The standard sword-staff hit points could be around 10.
So my final thoughts on it are:
Two-handed Martial weapon: (Double-weapon)
Swordstaff
1d8/1d6 [ 1d6/1d4 for small characters and no large version(?)]
19-20x2
12 lbs
(P or S) or B
Length: 6ft
Hardness for steel part: 10 and 5 hit points
Hardeness for wooden part:5 and 10 hit points
Price: I am not sure.Maybe around 30gp as the technique to fit a long blade in a staff could be a costly one.
Regular two weapon penalties apply as with any double weapon.
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So my final thoughts on it are:
Two-handed Martial weapon: (Double-weapon)
Swordstaff1d8/1d6
19-20x2
12 lbs
(P or S) or B
Length: 6ft
Hardness for steel part: 10 and 5 hit points
Hardeness for wooden part:5 and 10 hit pointsPrice: I am not sure
Regular two weapon penalties apply as with any double weapon.
I'd say maybe if you just had martial weapon for it, it'd be d6 (P or S)/d6 (B) as a double weapon, but if you get the exotic weapon feat then you'd get d8 (P or S)/d6 (B). So it'd be kinda like a double sword in terms of using it to the full potential. I'm drawing the d8 damage from looking at the double sword stats and thinking how with a little bit extra training you can get the full potential with the weapon (particularly with the bladed portion).
I'd also add that with the exotic weapon training, the weapon can also be used similar to a great sword (to emphasize the momentum you can get with swinging it like a great big sword).
Then again, all the stuff I suggested would cause probably too much confusion. Yeah... Depends on the blade on it, two variations, the short sword blade and the long sword blade at the end. :-P
Or maybe as it is regarding damage but moved to the exotic weapon type(free for rangers, monks and Warmages).
A battle mage swinging a magical,flaming Swordstaff..that would be a cool sight.(in my head at least).
All the other classes will either need an exotic feat or 1) use it as a longsword 2) as a quarterstaff with a wooden sheath but with penalties.(the sheath might fail or the blade could be damaged within it)
So you are not fond of the d8/d6 (m) d6/d4 (s) idea?
Not for a martial weapon if you are giving it a crit of 19-20. I would say 1d8/1d6 20/x2 would be fine for a martial or mine above. For the stats you proposed I would say that it should be exotic.
It is a confusing little weapon in general ;-p
But I personally think its worth it..Gives a certain flavor to your character.
Exotic Weapon:
Swordstaff:
1d8/1d6 [ 1d6/1d4 for small characters ]
19-20x2
12 lbs
(P or S) or B
Length: 6ft
Hardness for steel part: 10 and 5 hit points
Hardeness for wooden part:5 and 10 hit points
Price: 30 gp
Given to the Warmage,Ranger and Monk weapon lists.
Like the bastard sword it can be used without an exotic weapon feat (but only the blade side) or alternatively the blade can be sheathed with a wooden cap and used as a quarterstaff(still need to settle on the penalties)
Spring loaded blade versions exist that reveal the blade with a mechanism as a free action.These cost around 100gp
Regular two weapon penalties apply as with any double weapon.
Looks okay/reasonable now...
So now we work on the polearm version. Just kidding.
;-) Somehow I was expecting one of you to say that.
interesting discussion...I was reminded of those swords the elves used in the Lord of the Rings movie. HERE and HERE - maybe their a bit too shortValid point.I completely forgot to link one of these before!
Damn..now I am thinking if I should give it free to the Duskblade or not xD
I guess another thread could be made on how to incorporate the LOTR swords into Dnd..I personally think they fit the Rhomphaia description(as given in wiki,not the bastard sword one obviously)
And now using the stats, you can recreate the greatest fight scene ever.
And now using the stats, you can recreate the greatest fight scene ever.
Haha a Star Trek reference and I thought we were missing something.
What did you think of the new film btw?(or should I redirect this to another thread?)
So any ideas about the penalties when fighting with a sheathed Swordstaff?
Or maybe there shouldn't be any?
A rough idea I had was -1 on attack rolls +1 on damage(as the blade concealing end is heavier)
and a rule that after a few critical fumbles would have the sheath destroyed or removed.
On the other hand its like fighting with a scabbard on and I am not aware of any rules(Kill Bill vol 2 anyone? ;-p )
Hawke's weapon in the trailers of DragonAge 2?
Totally a fantasy version of a swordstaff(They even propose it should be a mage/mage-warrior only weapon as I did*)
*=In the final version for my world
I love you! I saw the trailer played a demo and my dm and I have been researching for two days on making this work for my magus. I guess great minds think alike as my proposed stats were the same. would you allow a swordstaff to be counted as a quarterstaff for the purpose of the craft saff feat?Hawke's weapon in the trailers of DragonAge 2?
Totally a fantasy version of a swordstaff(They even propose it should be a mage/mage-warrior only weapon as I did*)*=In the final version for my world
:)
Most probably; I haven't played with any d20-system for a while now...