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Quick question, for anyone who may know the answer, or who can direct me to the proper resource.
According to the updated Organized Play rules, GMs who "eat" a scenario will receive 1/2 max gold, 1 PA, and 1 XP to be added to a character of their choice, starting with Season 1.
Starting with Season 1 (and not retroactive to any previous scenarios that were run) any Game Master “eating” a scenario gets partial credit for that scenario applied to their own character one time. For example, if you run Scenario 40 three times, your character gets credit for it once. If you have multiple characters, you must choose which character gets the credit. You may only assign credit for a single scenario to a single character.
Partial credit means the GM gets the following:
• +1 XP for the scenario
• 50% of the max gold for the tier appropriate to the GM’s character; for example, a level 1 GM character gets 50% of the Tier 1–2 gold (yes,
this means a GM who runs a scenario at higher level that his current character receives no extra credit for his character)
• Half credit (meaning 1) Prestige Award
Does that only apply to Season 1+ scenarios, or does it mean anyone who GMs ANY scenario in season 1+ will receive that award?
I ask because I ran my first scenario (#1 Silent Tide) this past weekend, and I'm not sure if I need to fill out a Chronicle for my character or not. Any info will be greatly appreciated.
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Yes, you get the GM credit the first time you run any scenario in season 1+.
If you ran ST (for example) in season 0, you don't get retroactive credit for it but you do get credit after you run it in season 1.
Cool! Thanks, Lylo. Now, how do I go about getting said credit? Do I need to fill out a Chronicle for myself, or do I simply wait for Paizo to add the stuff to my character? Or will they notify me that I have GM credit waiting? Or do we even know HOW that's all going to work?
I hope I wasn't supposed to enter info for myself during the reporting process...'cause I didn't.
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You fill out a chronicle sheet for your character (1xp, 1/2 gold & 1 PA) then add your character as an extra character to the session report.
Just a follow up, though this applies to all GM rewards for eating an adventure. You get to buy items from that adventure with your 1/2gp as if you played it? Or do you just have to save it for the next adventure you do actually play in?
Thanks!
You may purchase items from the chronicle sheet.
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Does that only apply to Season 1+ scenarios, or does it mean anyone who GMs ANY scenario in season 1+ will receive that award?
I think you already know this, but remember that you only get all that 1/2 credit when you "eat" a scenario, i.e., run it as a GM having never played it as a player, so you'll never be able to play it.
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This does bring up an issue, though. There really isn't much incentive or reward for me to GM in the Pathfinder Society. As a GM, I only get the 1XP/1Prestige/1/2gold for running a scenario that I "eat." Okay, I'll do that once in a while. But most of the time I'm GMing scenarios I have already played. And for doing that, I get nothing. Okay, I get 4 hours of fun, but playing is fun too, and a lot less work, and I advance in the Society when I play. So why should I volunteer to GM?
It would be nice if there were some reward for GMs who run scenarios that they've already played, and even if they run those scenarios multiple times. Maybe not something as large as the reward for those who "eat" scenarios, but something. 1 Prestige point?
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It would be nice if there were some reward for GMs who run scenarios that they've already played, and even if they run those scenarios multiple times. Maybe not something as large as the reward for those who "eat" scenarios, but something. 1 Prestige point?
I second this idea. Hard to be abused because to run a session twice a DM has to find 8 players who haven't played it before. 1 PP seems just about right.
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This does bring up an issue, though. There really isn't much incentive or reward for me to GM in the Pathfinder Society. As a GM, I only get the 1XP/1Prestige/1/2gold for running a scenario that I "eat." Okay, I'll do that once in a while. But most of the time I'm GMing scenarios I have already played. And for doing that, I get nothing. Okay, I get 4 hours of fun, but playing is fun too, and a lot less work, and I advance in the Society when I play. So why should I volunteer to GM?
It would be nice if there were some reward for GMs who run scenarios that they've already played, and even if they run those scenarios multiple times. Maybe not something as large as the reward for those who "eat" scenarios, but something. 1 Prestige point?
This may sound critical of what you are suggesting Mosaic, but please understand it's my opinion and I see things a different way. I don't want GMs doing their job for any other reason than they have a sense of community and a desire to share the game with their peers. If GMs are enticed to do their job for a greater reward, there are people who will only GM for that reason and not care about the quality of the experience. The main reason I decided to become a GM was from bad experiences as a player. The worst GMs I ever played under were at Origins and GenCon. Some of these people were only GMing because they wanted swag and a free hotel room. They had little care for the experience that the players walked away with. They went through the motions and dropped everything when it was time for swag. I don't want PFS GMs running scenarios for any reason other than they love the Pathfinder RPG and they want to share it with other people. I really admire the GMs who eat scenario after scenario each month for their players. Although it would be nice if more players would take a turn behind the screen and give their GM a break, I want them to do it for the right reasons and not for a bribe. What I'm saying is certainly not the norm, but it is a concern I have based on personal experiences.
I was against GM Rewards back when Josh suggested it in Season 0. I'll take what Josh has given us because it's not overpowering, but I really think GMs should do their job out of a passion for the game and an honest desire to give players the best PFRPG experience possible. If players knew they could get rewards better than what they were currently getting it would increase the number of willing GMs, but their motivation might be tainted.
BTW, last count I have GMed PFS scenarios over 100 times. There might be a New York GM who has done more than that but we're close. I'd be sporting about 70 PA points above the average player in this game if I got a point every time I ran a scenario past the original.
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GM Rewards touches on a much broader subject of Quality and Quantity vs. Compensation. Be it Doctors, Teachers, or Pathfinder GMs. There needs to be a balance. Do you want a doctor that's in it for the money or one that wants to help people? Do you want a teacher who teaches for the (perceived!) benefits and pay or do you want a teacher who loves to teach? Same with a GM.
We need a reward system in place to attract new GMs. If you enjoy GMing you're going to do it regardless of reward. But what about those that could be good, but haven't tried (for a lot of reasons)? How do we attract those people w/o getting people who do it only for the rewards?
Personally, with what credit is offered for eating a scenario, I'd rather NOT take it. What's the point? My character's personality and, well, character, are determined by his experiences.
I do have a character concept for a character who could be made using only GM credit. He'll be Taldan of course, who's gotten his "prestige" and "experience" in life virtually (or literally) handed to him. Too bad we can't take the aristocrat as a PC class in PFS. Stupid nobles... Oddly though, he'll be less wealthy than those dirty "hands-on" type. Pfft.
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Doug,
I hear what you're saying, and on some points I agree, but for your consideration...
If there weren't GM rewards I have to say that I would be reluctant to buy and run any scenario I hadn't played in, thus retarding the proliferation of games for others to play in, in my area (in which, as you know, I am the only PFS DM apart from you coming to town for Marmalade Dog.) I don't mind DM'ing, but I do mind that I would be penalized (by blowing the opportunity for character advancement) by eating the scenario. I love DM'ing, but I don't want to sit at your next table with a 2nd level character while all the people I've been DM'ing for all this time are sitting there with 6th level characters. After all the games you've run do _you_ really want to be sitting at a table of newbies at Gen Con when you could be playing the upper-most tier with all of PFS's most active GM's? If so, you really are a saint; I sure would prefer the latter.
So, rewards takes care of that. Now, though, it promotes a DM like me running scenarios regardless of whether or not I've been able to play it first, but now I favor playing scenarios for which I get rewards. That's good for the 4-6 players who regularly sit at my table -- they get to play more scenarios and take their characters to higher levels -- but what about the 4-6 players that are on the waiting list? If there were rewards for re-running an already played scenario, then I would be encouraged to divide my time between running for each set. They all advance more slowly, but there's twice as many players.
I agree that ideally DM's should be in it for nothing but love of the game. I am, but when I am, I'm running something other than PFS, something where I have more of a connection to the story because I can change things and make it my own. With PFS you're constrained to coloring within the lines. I think there should be a reward for that, a trade-off. Character advancement seems like a suitable reward. Schwag or perks of a less virtual nature are probably ill advised.
I have no trouble with you having 70 PA more than average -- for all you do to promote the game I think that's the least you deserve (that's only, what, 2 raise deads?) Besides, as you yourself said, you're a special case, an outlier. Were the 1 PA award in effect I would have just 4 more PA than I do now after having run 1/mo. for the past 5 months, one being a scenario for which I got the aforementioned GM award for eating a scenario. It's not enough that it makes the difference between deciding to be a DM or not, but it's enough of a perk that I'd feel appreciated, a nice "thank you" from PFS.
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We need a reward system in place to attract new GMs. If you enjoy GMing you're going to do it regardless of reward. But what about those that could be good, but haven't tried (for a lot of reasons)? How do we attract those people w/o getting people who do it only for the rewards?
Here's an idea that seems kind of like a no-brainer to me: when someone signs up for PFS, registers a character and plays a scenario, give them a coupon code for a PDF of that same scenario, free with their next purchase from Paizo? You have to make the purchase requirement to keep people from gaming the system to get 40 free scenarios -- but that's not too much to ask. Then you have more scenarios in the hands of people who have already played them, and thus the only use for which is to DM for four of their friends who have not already played that module.
EDIT: I know this doesn't exactly fit the "no rewards" model, but see it for the fact that with more new DM's, players will gravitate to the DM's who are good at it, rather than just the only DM in their area running modules.
I agree with Farabor. :-)
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I'm a little bit suprised here that the $4.00 comes up. As farabor mentioned - this could be shared - actually - players should contemplate to buy it for a GM (and maybe some tiny bits here and there as well) in case the GM hasn't the means.
In my view as a GM you have often to invest a lot more than just the adventure. Lets start with a home game. Drinks and snacks too often are responsibility of the host - likely to be the GM.
The Bestiary - well - this is a must for a GM. This is worth 10 PFS on it's own. And if you go down the route to add props as GM - then you truly lost it.
Lets see - I'm going down to Dragonmeet in 2 weeks time. I just ordered a GameMaster Pad to keep track of initiative yesterday. I also just ordered a miniature monster for one of the encounters today. Lets add a train ticket, entrance fee (not sure I get in for free) and it keeps adding up.
I also tried on the weekend to lay out the whole adventure using one each and a little of Dwarvenforge Realm of the Ancients and Realm of the Ancient 2 sets. Doing this I realized it will be the first time I ever use it as a GM. Now we talk really crazy money.
Yes - I'm an outlier as well - most GM's won't be able to affort all the above. For me time is more an issue (Full time job, two children).
But what is the point I want to make?
a) No matter what - Paizo will never be able to re-imburse GM's for time, effort, etc. spend as a GM. Up to some degree you have to GM because it is something you like to do and props you use only make sense because you like to buy them as collector / for yourself.
b) It would help if player sometimes would be more aware that a GM is doing a job for them. When was the last time you thanked a GM for a game (hardly ever happens in my home game), the last time you brought food/snacks/etc. to a game or bought a pint for the GM at a CON. When was the last time you bought a miniature, a prop, something else useful for your home GM for his Birthday / Christmas. After all - you will benefit from it. Your GM will use it in games YOU play.
c) In regard to Pathfinder Society - I see the point that a GM should not be penalized for running a game. The current reward system is a compromise. I think a relative good one - as it is simple. But it is a compromise after all. I won't be able to cover all situations. Not being able to run a scenario yourself because you first did it as a GM is one. Getting less reward as possible for a player is another. Running it multiple times is a third. But you also have to keep in mind - the reward is safe - you always will get it (first time for a scenario this is). You have no risk. As a character you could get killed. You don't use up any charges / scrolls / etc.
No - the current system isn't perfect. Ideally you would chat with Josh after each game - he would take all the issues into account - and instead of a simple rule based reward he would be able to give a little bit extra here and there - be it swag, free scenarios for future games, or whatever else.
But this is just utopian - so we have a compromise that is a shlightly below average reward (compared to gaming) with no risk attached (better as gaming). Is it fair? Off course not - a fair reward would need to be based on the individual cirsumstances. But averaged over a lot of games it is doing a fine job in my eyes.
Thod
Btw - ever thought that a GM gets the same reward for a TPK as for any other game. Just think about it.
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I think the rewards system is fair. It provides enough incentive to give it a try. I wouldn't mind a couple extra GP for running the same scenario again and again, but odds are I will never actually play my character anyway. But I get to build him, which teaches me about the game some.
I purchased the scenario's on my own (24 so far). It is not a big expense. I also buy the maps, mini's and provide props, which cost way more than the $4.00.
I enjoy running the games and I enjoy watching the players get into the story, solve the mystery, and sweat the climatic battle. I do this on my dime for our home campaign, but I think the GM rewards incent us to take the game to the streets and intoduce many more people to it. I have run only 5 sessions so far, but they all have been a kick.
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While I would love to get anything that Paizo would like to give out as a reward (luv my free swag!), I will DM just for the love of the game and to promote the "sport" that I play.
We have frequent game days at our local game store and everyone that sits down to play pays $1.00 per game. At the very least, this pays for the mods and with 6 players, even comes out to enough to buy the DM a soda or two. For home games, I just hope anyone that you would play with would be man (or woman) enough to pony up their fair share for any mods.
The only issue that I see with the current reward system is that if you DM a lot, you start to fall behind on the gold and prestige curve as you are only getting half gold and prestige. I am not sure how to remedy this and while some of the suggestions in this thread have been good, I see problems with them. I will continue to DM and just deal with any inconveniences that may character my receive from my doing this.
This may sound critical of what you are suggesting Mosaic, but please understand it's my opinion and I see things a different way. I don't want GMs doing their job for any other reason than they have a sense of community and a desire to share the game with their peers. If GMs are enticed to do their job for a greater reward, there are people who will only GM for that reason and not care about the quality of the experience. The main reason I decided to become a GM was from bad experiences as a player. The worst GMs I ever played under were at Origins and GenCon. Some of these people were only GMing because they wanted swag and a free hotel room. They had little care for the experience that the players walked away with. They went through the motions and dropped everything when it was time for swag. I don't want PFS GMs running scenarios for any reason other than they love the Pathfinder RPG and they want to share it with other people. I really admire the GMs who eat scenario after scenario each month for their players. Although it would be nice if more players would take a turn behind the screen and give their GM a break, I want them to do it for the right reasons and not for a bribe. What I'm saying is certainly not the norm,...
Doug, While agree with you that judging for SWAG tends to taint the judging pool, I think you miss the point of rewarding judges that eat Mods. I ate nearly all the season zero mods. I did this cause I wanted to see that Pathfinder would succeed in my area by ensuring the judging pool that wants to/only plays pathfinder didnt have to eat a scenario if they truly didnt want to. I would happily continue doing this, sometime even to my detriment. I also happily offer to run even at my local game days and cons to which the only benefit I see from the con is a free badge so i can judge more games. Now, Im not an all trustic person, sure I do get the added benefit of potentially playing in zeros of other game systems for which zeroing truly is moot now.
Now when Josh put in the first rule set for rewarding judges who ate mods, I was like, sweet I might actually get to play one of these mods. So yes the few games I ate went towards a character that I played once at a con just to help make sure a table went off. So its kind of fun now to play that character once in a while. its even better when My character can keep pace with my group of friends and thats what rewarding the judges by giving half credit for an unplayed mod does. I just think he over corrected when he revised the rule in v2.1
while yes its great when your doctors, teachers and judges do things for free. The reality is they would like a little something back that will allow them to enjoy some of the other flavored fruits that their labors may produce.
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I'm not really concerned about the half treasure since I will save using perishable resources (one shot items, purchase spells to counter ability loss, etc). I would, however, like to get full PA credit, so I can at least have full purchase power even though my cash awards will be lacking in comparison. I think that halving the treasure reward AND limiting the buying power, is an unnecessary double whammy.
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I'm not really concerned about the half treasure since I will save using perishable resources (one shot items, purchase spells to counter ability loss, etc). I would, however, like to get full PA credit, so I can at least have full purchase power even though my cash awards will be lacking in comparison. I think that halving the treasure reward AND limiting the buying power, is an unnecessary double whammy.
but most players shouldn't be getting full presige in every senario anyway. when your second point relies on a check that you may not even have, and you only have one shot....
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But it's not reasonable to assume that the GM will never earn any of the 2nd PA points.It also seems a little unreasonable to assume that you should be worried about your spending limit when you are only getting 1/2 gold in the first place :)
He did mention however that DMs save from not having to buy potions, scrolls, wands, remove disease etc. While it doesn't fully cover the difference, you still do have a significant max purchase price difference. By the time my character was level 3 or 4, I was looking to purchase a pearl of power but realized that my PA wasn't high enough, I didn't hit the required 9 PA until I had just hit 4th level, which seems pretty late to me.
As I've mentioned elsewhere, a new GM reward system is coming. Stay tuned.
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IMHO, the best GM reward system is when you do not need it!
I would suggest that Paizo would run 'official' online games intended for GMs, selling seats at $4 each. When you finish the game, then you can download that adventure for 'free'.
I see these games as being run like 'slot zeroes' giving tips and advice for the playing GMs.
I do not like eating an adventure cause I think I am missing something (and my players thereafter too).
my 2 cents...
Director of Brand Strategy
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I would suggest that Paizo would run 'official' online games intended for GMs, selling seats at $4 each. When you finish the game, then you can download that adventure for 'free'.
Who would run these games? When? How often? Would they take into account GMs in other parts of the world who might have vastly different schedules? What tabletop emulator would they use? Would it support all platforms?
I think online play is great and even started a google group to help coordinate online games and mustering, but I think it should be something fans do and not something else to heap on Josh's already overflowing plate.
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I would suggest that Paizo would run 'official' online games intended for GMs, selling seats at $4 each. When you finish the game, then you can download that adventure for 'free'.
Who would run these games? When? How often? Would they take into account GMs in other parts of the world who might have vastly different schedules? What tabletop emulator would they use? Would it support all platforms?
I think online play is great and even started a google group to help coordinate online games and mustering, but I think it should be something fans do and not something else to heap on Josh's already overflowing plate.
I'd volunteer to help with that if they decided to go with a system like that, but I digress; We really should be encouraging players to meet face-to-face whenever possible (even if its just one convention per year) rather than encourage people to sit at home, at least in my opinion.
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I'd volunteer to help with that if they decided to go with a system like that, but I digress; We really should be encouraging players to meet face-to-face whenever possible (even if its just one convention per year) rather than encourage people to sit at home, at least in my opinion.
Thank you for volunteering! I can assure you though, if you had fun playing online with a group of people, you want to see these guys face-to-face in a con! I don't see online gaming as a competitor to convention gaming, it would be a plus instead!
On the business side, it could be very good for Paizo to offer online play: most of a gamer's budget goes on food, travel and hotel; reduce this spending and there will be more money to purchase the real stuff!
Think Paizo should try at least one 'official' online game run by a volunteer: pretty sure there would be 20 to 25 applicants for the 6 or 7 seats available...
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I'd volunteer to help with that if they decided to go with a system like that, but I digress; We really should be encouraging players to meet face-to-face whenever possible (even if its just one convention per year) rather than encourage people to sit at home, at least in my opinion.
Thank you for volunteering! I can assure you though, if you had fun playing online with a group of people, you want to see these guys face-to-face in a con! I don't see online gaming as a competitor to convention gaming, it would be a plus instead!
On the business side, it could be very good for Paizo to offer online play: most of a gamer's budget goes on food, travel and hotel; reduce this spending and there will be more money to purchase the real stuff!
Think Paizo should try at least one 'official' online game run by a volunteer: pretty sure there would be 20 to 25 applicants for the 6 or 7 seats available...
No problem. I don't mind 'eating' a few scenarios for the greater good of some of the other GMs out there.
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What would work better is that the GM would be able to run in the adventure later as a player. What you say he would know all the secrets of the adventure? First a good GM should be a good role player which should be able to play not knowing things that his character knows. Over the years I have replayed many modules both as GM and player and had fun each time [especially love the Hill Giants]. Secondly the GM could then share the game with others as a player and his character would actually gain experience and gold due him.
On an non-popular side, I really like the idea that the same player could play the same module again with a different character. This would allow the Society to grow faster as people could level more characters thus improving the pool of characters to play from.
I do agree that we should share expensense with the GM. I try to at least pick up refreshments for them when I play.
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I just want to clarify something.....
I just GM'ed my first PFS adventures.... when I report them, do I include my character that is getting the credit for the first-runs, or do I just fill out a chronicle sheet for him?Thanks all!
You do both. Add your PC to the end of the session report (you may need to add a character entry) and then you award yourself a Chronicle sheet.