Use Magic Device

Rules Questions

Can a 19th level Bard take ten on Use Magic Device Checks? What about a Rogue with the Skill Mastery talent?

Uh, any help?

Based on a quick reading from the book, I'd say yes to the bard and no to the rogue. The bard's jack-of-all-trades specifically says it's allowed to work even with skills where taking 10 isn't allowed. The rogue's skill mastery has no such provision.

Scarab Sages

That's an entirely valid interpretation. JoAT specifies that you can take 10 on ANY skill check, while Skill Mastery only specifies situations where stress and distractions would normally prevent you from taking 10.

So, there are (at least) 3 types of answers to this.

1) Interpreting the verbiage. We've got that.

2) Judgement calls of various folks. In another discussion, a gentleman suggested that, given that 19th level bards get to take 10 for every single skill ever, it's not asking much for a 10th+ level rogue to have the same for a mere Int-bonus+3 skills. My GM, on the other hand, agreed with Lathiira's interpretation, and stuck with that.

3) What the authors intended. If anyone "official" is handy, I'd love to hear what you had in mind when you created this talent.

(At first glance, UMD is the only skill I can find that specifically excludes taking 10 in its description.)

Liberty's Edge

This thread is from 2009. I'm pretty sure they're not worried about it any more.


Scarab Sages

Yeah, I just hate to create a new thread when this EXACT question has already been asked.

I would allow rogue to take 10 on UMD.

I think Lathiira is correct.


OK, so my question is this: Artificers have the skill "Skill Mastery" which states they get to take 10 on UMD. So if the rogue's skill is ALSO called "Skill Mastery", but allows a take 10 on MORE skills, why is that any different than an Artificer's limited version of the skill. Presumably the Rogue is using the same reasoning as the Artificer: they do it so much that they might as well take 10. Ie. its second nature to a rogue at level 10 to use magic devices (they steal them and use them all the time to escape nasty dilemnas). Its second nature to a Artificer at level 13. I don't see the difference, except that a Artificer's skill is more limited (no bonus skills for intelligence). Thoughts?

Messageboard Necromancer wrote:


maouse wrote:
OK, so my question is this



Me... I fear nothing... My mirror of life trapping has a 50/50 chance of defeating anything (not constructs or dead), even the Tarrasque! (check it out: +12 Wil save versus a 23 DC, making it need a 11 to not get trapped. BOOYAAA!)(now all I need to do is find some idiot to get within 30 feet of the Tarrasque)

So anyway, if TWO other classes can TAKE 10 on this skill that "nobody" can take 10 on, why can't a rogue? Especially given that one uses the exact same reasoning - excessive practice at using magical devices.

Yes, I understand that its supposed to be "always a chance of rolling a 1 to blow yourself up" skill. But if two other classes can, well... it kind of defeats this idea (ps. I know the classes may not be "official" classes in Pathfinder (dunno for sure)).

Slumber no more! Answers Please!

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