I just finshed the Campaign Setting and I noticed that there are many parallels to our world.
Arcadia = America (even that the Ulfen (Vikings) discovered it first)
Vudra = India (many gods for many aspects of life)
Tian Xia = Asia
Avistan = Europe
Garund = Africa (Desert in the north (Sahara) jungle in the middle (congo))
Sarusan = Australia
Crown of the World = Antarctica (although in Golarion it is in the north)
Many nations in Avistan reflect some of the nations in Europe for example Cheliax reminds me somewhat of Nazi-Germany, to beginn with it has the
Wolfsangel in its flag see here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfsangel
Starfall Doctrine predicts an millenium of unprecedented success.
Tausendjähriges Reich (german for "an empire lasting a thousend years") was a term used by NS-Propaganda.
Chaliax maintains one of avistans most massive army (somewhere it is hinted they are preparing for war)
It is a stain on the face of Golarion and a mockery of what was once the greatest kingdom of mankind
Could this be an allegory to the holy roman empire on whichs terretory in later years the NS-Regime rose?
Furthermore it is a popular theme the the Nazis employ supernatural powers to futher the goals (Indiana Jones / Hellboy)
Other Country resemble other european countries may be not in such a great detail, or may be it is simply the fact that I am german to see such a great resemblance in Cheliax.
Next the secquence of planets
Golarion is the third planet from its sun just like earth its sunward neighbor is the "Green World of Castrovel" which is coverd by jungles.
In science fiction and the early beginings of astronomy it was hypothized that jungles grew on venus (among other things)
see here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_in_fiction
the more outward planet is "The Red Planed Akiton" which clearly resembles Mars.
Many of the peoples listed have close resemblance to the ethnicities encountered on earth I am not going to list them here one by one.
I do not think, that this is coincidental but was done on purpose.
Is it that worlds which people can identify theselfes are more popular in general or where there other motives behind the creation of golarion in the way it is?
Greetz
Ganzir
Cheliax is more italy/rome (heavy venitian flavour in Westcrown the former capital) gone terribly, terribly wrong, twisted by diabolical influence. Further northern european culture is more so found north of Isger and Druma, with the very scattered River Kingdoms and other central Avistan nations.
Kind of random: I wish we had a front-on illustration of the Cheliax flag, instead of the furling illustration only. I like the symbol in the flag a lot more than the simplified faction symbol.
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Cheliax is more italy/rome (heavy venitian flavour in Westcrown the former capital) gone terribly, terribly wrong, twisted by diabolical influence. Further northern european culture is more so found north of Isger and Druma, with the very scattered River Kingdoms and other central Avistan nations.
"Terribly wrong"? There's *NOTHING* wrong or twisted about Cheliax, for ours is the *IDEAL* society! We're the most powerful nation that has ever existed on Golarion, and we could crush every so-called kingdom or "empire" beneath our booted heel -- we simply choose not to, because we are not the "Epitome of Evil" misguided fools believe us to be.
Arcadia = America (even that the Ulfen (Vikings) discovered it first)
Vudra = India (many gods for many aspects of life)
Tian Xia = Asia
Avistan = Europe
Garund = Africa (Desert in the north (Sahara) jungle in the middle (congo))
Actually, Tian Xia is Eastern Asia.
Casmaron is Westen Asia
Furthermore it is a popular theme the the Nazis employ supernatural powers to futher the goals (Indiana Jones / Hellboy)
Well, on Golarion, more or less everyone has access to supernatural powers.
There are parallels between the 3. Reich and Cheliax, but there are differences as well. For one thing, Our glorious Infernal Majestix Queen Abrogail II of the Thrice-Damned House Thrune is a lot hotter than the Führer ever was.
or may be it is simply the fact that I am german to see such a great resemblance in Cheliax.
That's probably it. It's easy to notice things you're more familiar with.
Golarion is the third planet from its sun just like earth its sunward neighbor is the "Green World of Castrovel" which is coverd by jungles.
In science fiction and the early beginings of astronomy it was hypothized that jungles grew on venus (among other things)the more outward planet is "The Red Planed Akiton" which clearly resembles Mars.
I think it was intentional that the two Neighbours greatly resemble Earth's neighbours out of Sword and Planet stories. JJ just loves the old pulp.
Is it that worlds which people can identify theselfes are more popular in general or where there other motives behind the creation of golarion in the way it is?
In a way, it's true. I think the reason that was behind this one is that there are so many great stories in our own mythology, which were an inspiration to the game from the very beginning, so a world that is The best of all possible worlds needs places for each of these mythologies:
If you're fascinated by the stories from Arabian Knights with genies and deserts and scimitars, you have places like Quadira and maybe Katapesh. Fan of the Pharaohs have Osirion. In the North you have your Vikings and ice trolls and evil snow witches, Taldor is the has-been empire, and so on. If dark legends of vampires, werewolves and the like are your cup of tea, Ustalav will become your new home.
But beyond that, there's more stuff that is from pop culture or more recent stories, tales that were called fiction from the beginning. Cheliax is the Evil Infernal Empire that is great as someone you go to war with, or try to liberate through rebellion (which is the stock of many a story), the Worldwound isn't the first land befallen by otherworldly forces of demons who try to currupt our world, either.
And finally, there's stuff that is not so far-spread, like Rahadoum, the Kingdom of Man, where people one day finally were fed up with holy wars and banned all religion from their land, or Galt, the Eternal Revolution, where they apparently like civil wars so much they just won't stop.
All in all, it's a great mix with something for everyone.
Kind of random: I wish we had a front-on illustration of the Cheliax flag, instead of the furling illustration only. I like the symbol in the flag a lot more than the simplified faction symbol.
I made one.
Kind of random: I wish we had a front-on illustration of the Cheliax flag, instead of the furling illustration only. I like the symbol in the flag a lot more than the simplified faction symbol.I made one.
That is superb. You add a lot to these boards, KaeYoss.
I kind of got an American feel to Cheliax. I think it's because of Aroden the god they follow. Kind of has the feel of the Christian right who follow the prophecies of Revelations and returning of Jesus in the end days. So next they find out with absolute proof that God is dead. Civil war erupts as the union breaks up. So territory is lost and the whole devil worship thing.
The Hell Knights could be seen kind in Nazi light but I picture them more in Stalin's Soviet Union style sort of Communist order except instead of Communism it's Monarchy sort of thing. As well I get feel of the decline of the Roman empire.
Seems more like a good mix of things from various cultures and histories in our world.
Kind of random: I wish we had a front-on illustration of the Cheliax flag, instead of the furling illustration only. I like the symbol in the flag a lot more than the simplified faction symbol.I made one.
Now THAT'S what I'm talking about!
Well done, KaeYoss, and thanks!
It feels almost silly to say it, but Golarion is a mix of the MYTHOS of various interesting countries, often seen through a 1930s lens.
We have the legends of russia, such as Baba Yaga, as the basis for one country. Andoran is the idealized version of the french revolution, Galt is the years of terror - what if it had continued? There are vikings (the mythological version of them), Egypt, and so on.
Then there are the more loosely existing countries, such as ones based on various ideologies, the island where the population is bred to fit into Utopian society comes to mind.
And then of course there are the roleplaying-motivated countries, such as Varisia. These are more of a blank canvas, to hold many different stories.
Even the planets of the solar system are mythologic reflections of our own planetary neighbours.
The truly interesting part is that according to the Golarion view of things, Earth is merely another planet around another star in the same universe. Is Golarion then some sort of Platonic higher realm to us earthlings?
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Cheliax is more italy/rome (heavy venitian flavour in Westcrown the former capital) gone terribly, terribly wrong, twisted by diabolical influence.
So it seems I'm living in Cheliax right now. I'm in Italy, the government has gone terribly, terribly wrong, the twisting by diabolical influence is quite a logical possibility. :D
BTW, I think you're quite right: Cheliax has always given me the feeling of the late Roman Empire, with some fantasy-based tyrannical thing going on.
Moreover, the names I've seen in the first adventure of the CoT AP are heavily influenced by italian-sounding noums (even if some are a bit funny).
Cheliax is more italy/rome (heavy venitian flavour in Westcrown the former capital) gone terribly, terribly wrong, twisted by diabolical influence.So it seems I'm living in Cheliax right now. I'm in Italy, the government has gone terribly, terribly wrong, the twisting by diabolical influence is quite a logical possibility. :D
BTW, I think you're quite right: Cheliax has always given me the feeling of the late Roman Empire, with some fantasy-based tyrannical thing going on.
Moreover, the names I've seen in the first adventure of the CoT AP are heavily influenced by italian-sounding noums (even if some are a bit funny).
For proof of diabolic influence in Italy, see today's Il Manifesto, Italy's communist daily. The picture of Berlusconi says it all.
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Cheliax is more italy/rome (heavy venitian flavour in Westcrown the former capital) gone terribly, terribly wrong, twisted by diabolical influence. Further northern european culture is more so found north of Isger and Druma, with the very scattered River Kingdoms and other central Avistan nations."Terribly wrong"? There's *NOTHING* wrong or twisted about Cheliax, for ours is the *IDEAL* society! We're the most powerful nation that has ever existed on Golarion, and we could crush every so-called kingdom or "empire" beneath our booted heel -- we simply choose not to, because we are not the "Epitome of Evil" misguided fools believe us to be.
"Wrong?" It is not Cheliax that is amiss; it is the rest of you who refuse to bow down to law and order that is the Infernal Lord.
Is Golarion then some sort of Platonic higher realm to us earthlings?
Earth is the shadows on the wall of Rovagug's prison.
I like your posts. You are one of the smartest people on the board in my opinion. Erudite and thoughtful. I look forward to seeing your avatar in future.
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For proof of diabolic influence in Italy, see today's Il Manifesto, Italy's communist daily. The picture of Berlusconi says it all.Cheliax is more italy/rome (heavy venitian flavour in Westcrown the former capital) gone terribly, terribly wrong, twisted by diabolical influence.So it seems I'm living in Cheliax right now. I'm in Italy, the government has gone terribly, terribly wrong, the twisting by diabolical influence is quite a logical possibility. :D
BTW, I think you're quite right: Cheliax has always given me the feeling of the late Roman Empire, with some fantasy-based tyrannical thing going on.
Moreover, the names I've seen in the first adventure of the CoT AP are heavily influenced by italian-sounding noums (even if some are a bit funny).
Il Manifesto always have the best first pages of them all. Or at least, the most funny ones. ;-)
I remember with a never-ending smile the titles for the current pope's election and when Berlusconi was elected prime minister in 2001.[/threadjack]
Awesomely fun post.
I'm still looking for the silly part. Well, I guess the thirties were a little silly, but not as silly as the 20s. But there's nothing silly about the Platonic archetypes...unless there is some archetype of silliness...
KaeYoss: you really went and did it. I have changed my entire theme to black and red, and replaced my LoF wallpaper with the banner of Cheliax. Your correct flag and the CoT AP have made me take another look at Cheliax...perhaps the right Paladin of Iomedae could uproot all of that diabolic influence and save the good in Cheliax...
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Awesomely fun post.I'm still looking for the silly part. Well, I guess the thirties were a little silly, but not as silly as the 20s. But there's nothing silly about the Platonic archetypes...unless there is some archetype of silliness...
KaeYoss: you really went and did it. I have change my entire theme to black and red, and replaced my LoF wallpaper with the banner of Cheliax. Your correct flag and the CoT AP have made me take another look at Cheliax...perhaps the right Paladin of Iomedae could uproot all of that diabolic influence and save the good in Cheliax...
Ah, but that is far easier to do once you sign this contr... er, join the Cheliax faction! ;)
(I'll guarantee it will open your eyes, and you'll see this so-called "diabolic influence" in a new light!)
Your beard, sir, smells of sulphur. Scurry back to your hooved master and tell him to look for a more gullible soul!
That is superb. You add a lot to these boards, KaeYoss.
Is Golarion then some sort of Platonic higher realm to us earthlings?Earth is the shadows on the wall of Rovagug's prison.
I like your posts. You are one of the smartest people on the board in my opinion. Erudite and thoughtful. I look forward to seeing your avatar in future.
Is it praising day and no one told me? :)
KaeYoss: you really went and did it.
That's the word on the street. They can't prove anything, though.
I have changed my entire theme to black and red, and replaced my LoF wallpaper with the banner of Cheliax.
Always happy to seduce people to the dark side.
I originally made that flag as a basis for backgrounds (on my phone, among other things) quite a while ago.
Your correct flag and the CoT AP have made me take another look at Cheliax...perhaps the right Paladin of Iomedae could uproot all of that diabolic influence and save the good in Cheliax...
We already saved all the good in Cheliax. In a Tupperware box in the freezer. Hellhounds must be fed, too.
Your beard, sir, smells of sulphur. Scurry back to your hooved master and tell him to look for a more gullible soul!
Oh, didn't you read the small print? "By using this Chelish flag as a wallpaper you align yourself with the Great Empire of Cheliax and its Infernal Thralls." :D
Your beard, sir, smells of sulphur. Scurry back to your hooved master and tell him to look for a more gullible soul!Oh, didn't you read the small print? "By using this Chelish flag as a wallpaper you align yourself with the Great Empire of Cheliax and its Infernal Thralls." :D
Whew! Good thing I removed all extraneous info from the image before I used it. :P
Never can be too careful when dealing with Chelaxians.
Well, thank you, Sock Puppet. I am glad I could entertain something with a brain made of someone else's fingers.
Talk to the hand.
Woo hoo, I'm getting closer to the true mastermind behind the Sock Puppet!!! =)
Vikings didn't discover America First...it was discovered long before,
I would say that the Native Americans were the first, but people tend to discount native peoples with thousands of years living somewhere when they want to rob them of their land...
I now dismount my soap box and end my vent.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Vikings didn't discover America First...it was discovered long before,I would say that the Native Americans were the first, but people tend to discount native peoples with thousands of years living somewhere when they want to rob them of their land...
I now dismount my soap box and end my vent.
I'd say that I find the term 'Native American' offensive sir. I was born here, and I'm just as native as the next guy.
In all seriousness, I use the term 'First Peoples' for just that reason. :P
Director of Brand Strategy
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I'd say that I find the term 'Native American' offensive sir. I was born here, and I'm just as native as the next guy.
In all seriousness, I use the term 'First Peoples' for just that reason. :P
There is a difference when referring to an individual and an ethnicity. A person with Japanese lineage could be a native of any nation, but their heritage and ethnicity are still Asian.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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There is a difference when referring to an individual and an ethnicity. A person with Japanese lineage could be a native of any nation, but their heritage and ethnicity are still Asian.I'd say that I find the term 'Native American' offensive sir. I was born here, and I'm just as native as the next guy.
In all seriousness, I use the term 'First Peoples' for just that reason. :P
Oh I know, but then you get into absurd 'one drop' rules. Frex, does that mean that American First Peoples are actually Asian Americans as they came over the land bridge? Or what about the DNA markers in some of the SE tribes and archeological evidence that links them to ancient europeans.
First peoples is more accurate, IMSNHO.
Until you find out who the "First" Peoples displaced when they entered what is now North America.
As far as I know, the "First Peoples" didnt displace anyone when they arrived in the Americas. Humans hadnt ranged that far yet. They were the first.
Hence the name ;)
Unless we are going to advocate that the Americas be returned to the three-toed giant ground sloths......
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Your beard, sir, smells of sulphur. Scurry back to your hooved master and tell him to look for a more gullible soul!
Well, plant boy, your own beard smells of rotten leaves! And what's wrong with the smell of sulphur, eh? Better than rotten leaves, right? ;P
(Besides, my master -- the Infernal Chief Librarian Helluvax Tomethra of Westcrown -- does not have hooves; horns, wings and fiery eyes.. now those are another matter completely!)
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Vikings didn't discover America First...it was discovered long before, but you have to believe that before the last ice age that man wasn't complete idiots...
Of course I'm an Atlantis aficionado...
That's why Azlant is my favorite!
Actually, I remember from a old article some 20 yers ago, scientist finding the remains of a Roman Galley near the coast of Bresil.
It was from "science et Vie" a quite serious publication (at the time). i don't know what became of that, or if it was an hoax.
Erm, sorry for the threadjack.
I would say that the Native Americans were the first, but people tend to discount native peoples with thousands of years living somewhere when they want to rob them of their land...
It's not just that! In order to discover some land, you must be an explorer or discoverer or something like that. Just living there doesn't count. Everyone can do that.
I'd say that I find the term 'Native American' offensive sir. I was born here, and I'm just as native as the next guy.
They're a lot more native then you.
Oh I know, but then you get into absurd 'one drop' rules. Frex, does that mean that American First Peoples are actually Asian Americans as they came over the land bridge? Or what about the DNA markers in some of the SE tribes and archeological evidence that links them to ancient europeans.
Didn't the whole species originate in Africa, anyway?
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Didn't the whole species originate in Africa, anyway?
Oh I know, but then you get into absurd 'one drop' rules. Frex, does that mean that American First Peoples are actually Asian Americans as they came over the land bridge? Or what about the DNA markers in some of the SE tribes and archeological evidence that links them to ancient europeans.
There are lots of African myths saying their ancestors came from the west...
Bah. Everyone knows that, "life here began out there."
M
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Didn't the whole species originate in Africa, anyway?
Oh I know, but then you get into absurd 'one drop' rules. Frex, does that mean that American First Peoples are actually Asian Americans as they came over the land bridge? Or what about the DNA markers in some of the SE tribes and archeological evidence that links them to ancient europeans.
Which just proves my point. :-)
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