Because I have nothing better to do on Sunday morning...


4th Edition


...I have calculated that using only PHB1 & PHB2, there are 6580 possible race/class/paragon path/epic destiny combinations.

Anyone care to confirm or dispute?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Multi class feats?


Galnörag wrote:
Multi class feats?

Quite right! I forgot to mention that I didn't include multi-classing; mainly because I haven't really paid to much attention to how it works in 4e.

If someone wants to figure out how many extra combinations multi-class feats would add, I encourage your endeavours.


Presuming that your initial number was correct you should only have to times your number by the number of multiclass feats -1 because you can only take 1 multiclass feat (or chain of feats) and you can't multiclass into your own class.

So times 15.

That said if you want to worry about the chain of feats you can stop atwhat is it 4 different feat levels (novice power swap, adept power swap, and master power swap in addittion to the multiclass feat )in which case its more like 4 choices instead of one.

So times 60?

Did you account for multiclass paragon path substitute?

Also the bard is going to inflate it even more because they can take multible multiclass feats.

So that should be Add 15

(presuming you didn't already and just phb 1 and 2 at 16 classes total)


Galdor the Great wrote:

...I have calculated that using only PHB1 & PHB2, there are 6580 possible race/class/paragon path/epic destiny combinations.

Anyone care to confirm or dispute?

Have the optimizers decided yet which three of these combinations are worth playing because the others are all "unfun?" :-P

Note: Poking fun here at min/maxers, not 4e. Honestly, if you enjoy that part of the game, more power to you; it's just not my thing.

The Exchange

That's what I hate about 4e - all the classes as the same.


Can't be any worst than the Trolls who bring up the same 'all classes are the same b~!~~~@$' over and over again.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
That's what I hate about 4e - all the classes as the same.

I can't decided if you are trying to be ironic or troll?


If it looks and smells like a troll then it is probably a troll so you better just wait until daylight because you aren't a lucky hobbit.

The Exchange

It is a bit of a sad indictment that we are so accustomed to being trolled on these boards that when someone posts in jest no one sees the joke.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
It is a bit of a sad indictment that we are so accustomed to being trolled on these boards that when someone posts in jest no one sees the joke.

Once burned, twice shy.

In any event, yes there are a lot of possibilities, each with its own unique feel


Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
It is a bit of a sad indictment that we are so accustomed to being trolled on these boards that when someone posts in jest no one sees the joke.

Well I got it and recognized the irony. What I found really odd was that you got lumped into the troll category at all - does no one recognize regular posters around here? I mean its not like the 4E forum has all that many regulars.

Silver Crusade

The lobster speaketh truth.

The Exchange

Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
It is a bit of a sad indictment that we are so accustomed to being trolled on these boards that when someone posts in jest no one sees the joke.
Well I got it and recognized the irony. What I found really odd was that you got lumped into the troll category at all - does no one recognize regular posters around here? I mean its not like the 4E forum has all that many regulars.

Well, I had hoped that someone would remember me. Obviously I'm not that memorable.

Silver Crusade

Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
It is a bit of a sad indictment that we are so accustomed to being trolled on these boards that when someone posts in jest no one sees the joke.
Well I got it and recognized the irony. What I found really odd was that you got lumped into the troll category at all - does no one recognize regular posters around here? I mean its not like the 4E forum has all that many regulars.
Well, I had hoped that someone would remember me. Obviously I'm not that memorable.

It's the melty face. We try to suppress it from our consciousness.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Aubrey the Malformed wrote:


Well, I had hoped that someone would remember me. Obviously I'm not that memorable.

Who are you again?

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Galdor the Great wrote:

...I have calculated that using only PHB1 & PHB2, there are 6580 possible race/class/paragon path/epic destiny combinations.

Anyone care to confirm or dispute?

I DISPUTE IT!!!

Wait...did you want some evidence or math to back up the dispute? Because I don't have any of that. Just contrarianess...

The Exchange

Sebastian wrote:
Galdor the Great wrote:

...I have calculated that using only PHB1 & PHB2, there are 6580 possible race/class/paragon path/epic destiny combinations.

Anyone care to confirm or dispute?

I DISPUTE IT!!!

Wait...did you want some evidence or math to back up the dispute? Because I don't have any of that. Just contrarianess...

Another f~&$ing troll.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Galdor the Great wrote:

...I have calculated that using only PHB1 & PHB2, there are 6580 possible race/class/paragon path/epic destiny combinations.

Anyone care to confirm or dispute?

I DISPUTE IT!!!

Wait...did you want some evidence or math to back up the dispute? Because I don't have any of that. Just contrarianess...

Another f*~~ing troll.

Awesome! Welcome to the club. Just as long as your not a Brit, we should get along swimmingly. I hate those limey bastards.


Was somebody looking for me?


14 Races (shifter counts as 2)
16 Classes
5 Paragon Paths for each race/class combination
11 Epic Destinies - though not all characters can qualify for all Destinies (some are open only to one class or one power source)

Add in some (not-so)fancy calculations and you get 6580 combinations.

Why did I re-post this total? Because I have nothing better to do on Thursday afternoon.

Silver Crusade

How did you get 5 paragon paths? Clerics, I believe, are up to 14 or so...

And don't forget the racial paragon paths which can be matched with any class. And paragon paths that can be taken by "any divine class" and so forth.

And there's way more than 11 epic destinies.

Really, the calculations are a lot more complex, and I discourage anyone from actually doing them, because I guarantee there are better things one could be doing with those hours.


Celestial Healer wrote:

How did you get 5 paragon paths? Clerics, I believe, are up to 14 or so...

And don't forget the racial paragon paths which can be matched with any class. And paragon paths that can be taken by "any divine class" and so forth.

And there's way more than 11 epic destinies.

Really, the calculations are a lot more complex, and I discourage anyone from actually doing them, because I guarantee there are better things one could be doing with those hours.

I am only counting material from PHB1 & PHB2 as I don't have access to any other sources for races, classes, paths, or destinies.

Each class in the PHBs have 4 paragon paths, add in the racial path, and that give 5 path options at 11th level for each race/class combo.

I don't think the calculations are that complex. Here are my reasons for thinking so:

1. The calculations are easy and anyone can do them.
2. The calculations are difficult but I'm extremely intelligent so it's very easy for me to get the right answer.
3. The calculations are difficult and I'm not smart enough to realize how wrong my calculations are.
4. I'm sure there are more reasons I could add but I don't have enough time to calculate them all.
5. I don't have time to do #4 above but I have time to calculate the other stuff?
6. One sided conversations with yourself on the internet probably indicates an imminent onset of insanity.
7. C is for cookie, that's good enough for me.

Silver Crusade

Ahh, if you are just using PHB1 and 2, then that is easier, although the racial paragon paths are in PHB2...

It's the ones in the Power series books (not even mentioning Dragon articles) that start to make things more complicated. Not to mention those books contain a large number of epic destinies.


Celestial Healer wrote:

Ahh, if you are just using PHB1 and 2, then that is easier, although the racial paragon paths are in PHB2...

It's the ones in the Power series books (not even mentioning Dragon articles) that start to make things more complicated. Not to mention those books contain a large number of epic destinies.

I grabbed all the races, classes, paragon paths, and epic destinies from the Compendium and came up with a number of potential combinations in excess of 22 million. It should be more, actually, since I didn't bother calculating hybrid classes against each other (since you pick a combination of two), though I didn't limit paragon paths based on class or race (it's a huge hassle for the handful of race-specific paragon paths out there, and pretty much anyone can qualify for any class-specific paragon path through multiclass feats).

Either way, it's a very very very large number.


Scott Betts wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:

Ahh, if you are just using PHB1 and 2, then that is easier, although the racial paragon paths are in PHB2...

It's the ones in the Power series books (not even mentioning Dragon articles) that start to make things more complicated. Not to mention those books contain a large number of epic destinies.

I grabbed all the races, classes, paragon paths, and epic destinies from the Compendium and came up with a number of potential combinations in excess of 22 million. It should be more, actually, since I didn't bother calculating hybrid classes against each other (since you pick a combination of two), though I didn't limit paragon paths based on class or race (it's a huge hassle for the handful of race-specific paragon paths out there, and pretty much anyone can qualify for any class-specific paragon path through multiclass feats).

Either way, it's a very very very large number.

An infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of typewriters will eventually create all 22 million+ combinations...

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