The chase looks interesting and exciting, you could have your players on the edge of their seats.
Share your descriptions for some of the skills checks of the chase.
The chase looks interesting and exciting, you could have your players on the edge of their seats.
Share your descriptions for some of the skills checks of the chase.
Some of the obstacle stuff used on the cards (used about 20 cards total), but had introduced two branching areas (one with a shorter far more difficult route; one with an extra card to circumvent a mean obstacle and one area where two cards could be bypassed near the en d through extreme skill checks ).
Group consisted of two high-skill characters (rogue and swordsage), and a fairly mobile priest. The sorceress, focused on socials and looking alluring was a total washout and had difficulties not falling off the first roof^^Always gave a description of the obstacle first, then a skill and (DC). Also kept an open mind for quick-thinking alternative ways to overcome the obstacle - basically a good solution they presented with 10 secs of encountering the obstacle.
- "Firewalls - Difference in Roof heights" (climb or height jump-up // acrobatics down)
- "Rotten roof/loose shingles" (Acrobatic-Balance or Reflex save to avoid breaking through the spars and getting stuck)
- "Steep incline" ( Acrobatics balance or Climb check to negotiate )
- "Rack of chimneys blocking path" ( Escape artist to squeeze through or climb over the tops)
- "Cuppola-roof" (climb-over or balance around.. with bonuses for small size)
- "Jump the backroad" (Jump or couple of Fort saves for Endurance to run the long way around swiftly)
- "Ladder bridge" (Jump to bypass or acrobatics - down/ climb up.. bonus for small size given due to mass )
- "Cutting corners" (jump over intervening courtyard or run another card )
- "Slide down the laundry line" (laborious double Climb down or dashing slide on weak drying lines with fresh laundry - Acrobatics and Reflex save)
- "Narrow Gap" ( perception check to spot a narrow gap to avoid another obstacle)
- "Clouds of soot" (smoking chimney bellowing sooty smoke - perception check to pass through safely and reorient oneself or Acrobatic slide downroof plus balance check in the scuppers to bypass)
- "Picked a bad landing spot" (Jump with reflex save... followed by climbing up again )
- "Rooftop garden" ( Dashing through for some minor damage from branches and Reflex save to avoid being dazed for a round or Acrobatics - tumble )
- "Rainbarrel-Deluge" ( Trinia overturning a cistern/rainwater-barrel, making an incline slippery or washing a close pursuer off it - climb checks, plus possible Reflex )
- "Flung across the road" (very difficult - DC 25 methinks - jump, but circumvented 2 cards). Character actually proposed resolving it by using his whip as a swinging rope^^ and climbing to the roof.
- "Jump or topple" (Jump over gap or topple a rooftop shack's boards to cover it - STR-test for the later)
- "Pigeon birdcages" ( Acrobatics to avoid entanglement and pecking birds or AE effect magic to "eliminate" the hassle... or circumvent by running around this on an extra card... I also included an evilly minded birdkeeper sleepily coming out of his shack.)
My group had skills around 7 ranks (or 4 ranks in PF-RPG + class-skill boni) and pretty good stats (Dex between 14 and 18 being key), with one character having Skill Focus : Acrobatics and some minor skill boosting items available (around +3 to skills). The BETA-rules travel domain, as well as the increased landspeed offered by that easing the jumps helped the cleric of Cayden quite a bit to keep up.
so I planned difficulties between 12 (easy) 15 (no sweat) 18 (wait a second) and 21 (hold your breath). One or two really spectacular ones besides with major gains (like crossing the road) , but major risk of falling too ( we assumed approximately 40' height for the chase)
Still, the out-skilled character found the chase.... exclusive. fortunately he found fun in distracting the Hellknights who were hot on the heels of the PCs entering the house.
Two of the characters being clad in stylish black outfits with neckerchiefs and rapiers seeded some wonderful "Blackjack strikes again" rumors, too
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I laid the cards out as they each approached them. Trinia was being chased by a half orc fighter in heavy armor and a paladin in heavy armor and a wizard, it was left to the wizard to catch the girl. Surprisingly, no one fell, though paladin had a few close calls, but Erun our wizard was able to catch her rather quickly. It was a lot of fun.
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I laid the cards out as they each approached them. Trinia was being chased by a half orc fighter in heavy armor and a paladin in heavy armor and a wizard, it was left to the wizard to catch the girl. Surprisingly, no one fell, though paladin had a few close calls, but Erun our wizard was able to catch her rather quickly. It was a lot of fun.
Trina acted first and got to the wizard's maximum range... he cast sleep and she started rolling down the rooftop asleep.... they barely made it to the ground fast enough to catch her her after she fell and woke up.
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I just ran my groups chase seen Saturday night. It ended up being a very dramatic chase as three members of the party are fairly acrobatic and were able to make many of the difficult DCs. Others found the chase to be entirely boring, sadly, including our Monk, Cleric, and Barbarian. None of them had the skills to keep up it seems, and the Monk kept rolling low on his checks. It was almost comical watching who should've the best at the Shingles Chase fall from the rooftops after missing his checks by 10+ on at least three occasions. The Cleric and Barbarian didn't even try, feeling that even the DC 15 obstacles were too difficult.
They managed to catch Trinia and turned her over to the guard, despite her attempts to persuade them to let her go.
Since our sessions tend to be fairly short it was the only event we managed to pull off (Bi-monthly meetings for only five hours means its taken us a long time to even make it this far into EoA). The party is eager for an actual dungeon now. Can't wait for the next part.
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The patient presented with a rash, and complained of extreme sensitivity and pain in a broad area on one side of the body for the past three days. This was accompanied by a slight fever and headaches.
Oh... sorry—I thought you said "share your shingles case descriptions."
O_o
Oh, perhaps I could use this in "Seven Days". The doctor's diagnosis could add a very creepy aire to the game. hehehe
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I added in some nifty stuff, I wanted my PCs to be able to use some of their charisma/intelligence/strength based skills.
"Rooftop Party - The PC has found themselves running through a rooftop party. The bouncer is not happy. Succeeding at a Diplomacy Check (DC 15) allows the PC to pass through the party and use the shortcut"
"Water Tower - There is a water tower on the rooftop below, if the PC swims across (Swim DC 15) it they'll have a short time of it."
"Thugs - There's a group of lowlife criminals standing between the PCs and Trinia (they like her and let her through automatically) it's a DC 15 Intimidate Check to get past them"
"Clothesline Zip - The PC grabs a nearby pair of pantaloons and zips across a clothes line which reaches over an alley (Acrobatics DC 10)"
"Clothesline Swing - The PC breaks off a nearby clothesline and swings across to a nearby building (Acrobatics DC 15)"
My group unfortunately managed to bypass pretty much the entire thing by the sorceress casting Sleep on the first round and Trinia failing her Will save :/
They did like the concept of the cards and the skill checks though, so the time I spent getting everything nicely printed and balanced wasn't entirely wasted ;)
My group was discouraged after seeing some of the DCs. Though that did not matter in the end because the sorcerer hit Trinia from the street, reducing her Strength to 2...
Two players were less then thrilled by the prospect of running along rickety rooftops and chose to take to the streets, what made them even less thrilled.
:(
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DC 10-20 discouraged your PCs?
You're saying that they chose not to give chase because it seemed too hard?
Can you imagine them later in the path?
I can imagine them facing off against the queen later in the Path. "Wait we'd have to infiltrate a big old dungeon filled with MONSTERS to get a sword to bypass her regen? Why don't we just move to Magnimar? No crazy queens there."
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DC 10-20 discouraged your PCs?
You're saying that they chose not to give chase because it seemed too hard?
Can you imagine them later in the path?
** spoiler omitted **
Actually, the same thing happened with many of my PCs. Half were equipped for the job with *some, but not all* of the skills necessary, the other half basically followed on foot at street level. Those who did give chase were really divided in their results. One was fast enough to keep up, one struggled a little, and another was just plain unlucky.
Oh, and some DCs go as high as 25 if I remember correctly, but I wouldn't let my players know the DCs ahead of time either. They made their decisions based on their assumptions of the DCs being high.
Yes the DCs did discourage them and somehow, I don't dare to think beyond the end of SD2tG...
Running and jumping (Acrobatics and Acrobatics) is not for Clerics and Sorcerers.
The real problem was that they had trouble envisioning the whole scene and that Trinia got hit by a Ray of Enfeeblement, letting her move only one roof and even that only barely.
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I ruled that there'd be heavy penalties for shooting at her from the street. Between cover due to angle of fire, concealment thanks to hanging washing, it was better for the P.Cs to give chase from the rooftops rather than fire from the street. Plus by throwing in skill checks beyond dex ones the players almost always had an option their characters favoured.
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Our party failed epically at this scene :-/
My rogue/barbarian fell off and was knocked unconscious after only a few rooftops.
This is the big thing though. I don't own the adventure, so I can only speak from the perspective of a player and from what our DM told us afterward...but Trinia was impossible to catch.
She had used a potion or a spell or both on herself...I want to say they were something like jump and expeditious retreat. It was ridiculous. She moved one or two rooftops every single round, while our most acrobatic PC was struggling to move one rooftop each turn.
Did anyone else have this issue? Our DM told us afterward that he looked at her equipment and stats, and realized she had these really useful items/spells for running away, and that it made total sense for her to use them when she heard us coming.
It was a really neat alternative to a combat encounter, but it was exceedingly difficult for us.
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She is a challenge, but she is not impossible...for most parties. She does indeed have buff's and a few other tricks up her sleaves, like the Feat Shingle Runner from the players guide. I am running the AP for 2 groups and both caught her, the first party she made it nearly to the end. The second party caught her pretty early.
I ran a practice scene of that a dozen times before I introduced it to the players. I made a pretty average party stat wise and make up wise. A light fighter and a rogue, a heavy fighter, a Cleric in armor and a mage. The cleric and the heavy armored fighter could do little but try to keep up. The Wizard used some spells but usually also was trying to keep up. The Light fighter and the rogue caught her about 2 out of 3 times. The encounter seems to favor Barbarians of all things. They have good moves, good skill checks in the necessary skills and when they catch up to her they can usually grapple her pretty well.
I came to the conclusion that on average a party should catch her a little over 3 out of 4 times so a DM may have to adjust some stuff to match their party. If the party is all armored up, with little in way of range attacks (not neccessarily lethal attacks but something at range) The second party has a two-weapon fighter/rogue and a straight rogue who caught her and laid into her with subdual attacks and their sorcerer kept pelting her with magic missile until she went down.
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A cleverly designed character can keep up and even catch her, and she's even more likely to be caught if utilizing the PFRPG rules.
I ran some similar playtests using my own party's stats to figure out if it was possible after I initially ran it and it seemed pretty 50/50 but that is still far from impossible. Luck is still a big factor. I'm really tempted to suggest that the event either have slightly easier DCs or be longer. Either will help make skillful characters more useful.
She had used a potion or a spell or both on herself...I want to say they were something like jump and expeditious retreat. It was ridiculous. She moved one or two rooftops every single round, while our most acrobatic PC was struggling to move one rooftop each turn.
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** spoiler omitted **
She had used a potion or a spell or both on herself...I want to say they were something like jump and expeditious retreat. It was ridiculous. She moved one or two rooftops every single round, while our most acrobatic PC was struggling to move one rooftop each turn.
Maybe I was misremembering the mechanics. I'm pretty sure if you try to move 2 or 3 roofs and fail the check(s), you stay where you are.
So, I think what was happening was that Trinia was moving 2 or 3 rooftops every turn (with ~100% chance of success), and the acrobatic PC was having to attempt the same thing to keep up, but he was failing checks more often than not, and thus not moving off the rooftop he was on. Or something like that. Like I said, it would've been more clear to me if I was a DM and not a player at the time.
When the DM first laid out the encounter, I was like "awesome." But by halfway through it, I realized it was an exercise in futility, as we were making checks to move at a rate of X, and she was automatically moving at a rate of 2X.
Maybe our DM was calculating her skill bonuses wrong, who knows...I think she had an Acrobatics score of 30+.
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Maybe I was misremembering the mechanics. I'm pretty sure if you try to move 2 or 3 roofs and fail the check(s), you stay where you are.
You only stay on the card that you reached, you still do the cards one at a time with the option of moving multiple cards. If you try to move three cards you succeed on all but one check you move all but one card.
When the DM first laid out the encounter, I was like "awesome." But by halfway through it, I realized it was an exercise in futility, as we were making checks to move at a rate of X, and she was automatically moving at a rate of 2X.Maybe our DM was calculating her skill bonuses wrong, who knows...I think she had an Acrobatics score of 30+.
Technically, if you follow the description given for how the encounter works she will only move multiple cards if the PCs are within a card of her, she otherwise only moves one at a time which is a freebie.
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You only stay on the card that you reached, you still do the cards one at a time with the option of moving multiple cards. If you try to move three cards you succeed on all but one check you move all but one card.
[...]
Technically, if you follow the description given for how the encounter works she will only move multiple cards if the PCs are within a card of her, she otherwise only moves one at a time which is a freebie.
>.> Okay, it sounds like our DM was going hard on us. Maybe he didn't read the encounter carefully. Of course it didn't help that we were consistently rolling <10 on Acrobatics checks.
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>.> Okay, it sounds like our DM was going hard on us. Maybe he didn't read the encounter carefully. Of course it didn't help that we were consistently rolling <10 on Acrobatics checks.
I know my party can feel you pain. Our monk, who should've been the best for catching Trinia kept rolling really low and falling from the rooftops. Our Ranger/Rogue and Fighter/Scout were the two who managed to keep up mostly, the Ranger/Rogue actually catching her.
The chase looks interesting and exciting, you could have your players on the edge of their seats.
Share your descriptions for some of the skills checks of the chase.
The chase lasted two rounds thanks to Majenko the pseudodragon poking what's her name and dropping her with the poison.
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The chase lasted two rounds thanks to Majenko the pseudodragon poking what's her name and dropping her with the poison.The chase looks interesting and exciting, you could have your players on the edge of their seats.
Share your descriptions for some of the skills checks of the chase.
*facepalm* That totally never even occurred to us...