Is there anyway you guys could offer a low cost bundle the PDF and print copies?
I have subscribed but would want to pick up the previously released Pathfinder Companions in print and pdf but don't want to pay full price for both.
Or offer a PDF at reduced cost for those who purchased the print from your website already.
This should be a big winner for Paizo. I want to give you more money for a product I already own.
Director of Sales
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Is there anyway you guys could offer a low cost bundle the PDF and print copies?
I have subscribed but would want to pick up the previously released Pathfinder Companions in print and pdf but don't want to pay full price for both.
Or offer a PDF at reduced cost for those who purchased the print from your website already.
We have explored the option of offering something like this in the past, however, we have never done so and do not currently plan on doing so in the future.
The problem with offering a discount on back PDFs is that it devalues the free PDF you get as a subscriber bonus. While we certainly love selling the back volumes and PDFs, having subscribers for future books allows to have the best possible predictions for future print runs, revenue stream, and inventory levels. Our intention is to do as much as we can to encourage everyone to subscribe early and get that PDF for free. We are never going to punish people for not having subscribed, but neither do we ever want to punish people for having been a subscriber. The best way to do this is to defend the sanctity and the value of the free PDF as a subscriber premium.
Thanks,
cos
Was I seeing things, or did Lisa have a post (regarding the $9.99 PFRPG PDF) in here that got eaten by the goblins?
The problem with offering a discount on back PDFs is that it devalues the free PDF you get as a subscriber bonus. While we certainly love selling the back volumes and PDFs, having subscribers for future books allows to have the best possible predictions for future print runs, revenue stream, and inventory levels. Our intention is to do as much as we can to encourage everyone to subscribe early and get that PDF for free. We are never going to punish people for not having subscribed, but neither do we ever want to punish people for having been a subscriber. The best way to do this is to defend the sanctity and the value of the free PDF as a subscriber premium.
I don't mean to stir things up, but I have a couple of questions, since I've asked a similar question in the past...
Doesn't that fly in the face of earlier comments that I saw from someone (Vic or Erik? Don't remember, my search-fu is weak.) that stated that the FLGS is the bulwark of the hobby, and integral to the success of all publishers, including Paizo?
This answer also seems to reinforce the opinion of people like Marcus King of Titan Games (who's earlier regarding PDFs I didn't agree with) that the FLGS is being undercut - in this case, seemingly true. This is a direct DISincentive to purchase product from my FLGS.
Certainly, I was discouraged from purchasing/pre-ordering PFRPG from my local dealer due to the PDF benefit of the subscription.
I don't even know if you folks have a complete run of printed back issues of the APs, but the fact that I can only get the PDFs by paying 70% of cover price effectively means that I won't buy either now, which is sad for me, and a lost sale for you. Lisa's post had mentioned the $9.99 PDF, but currently, that's a unique deal. If the rest of the PDFs were priced at 20% - 50% of cover, I'd be far more inclined to purchase them (and the print material they supplement).
Finally, I'm curious - regarding your statement about predictions - am I reading too much into this, or are you implying that you sell more copies of your publications directly than you do via distributors? If this is, in fact, what occurs, is this cause of what seems to be a lack of motivation to implement a system of getting the PDFs via a retailer?
I know you guys can't control Amazon's pricing, but, at least in the case of Paizo's PDF bonus for subscribing/buying direct, that really seems to be a one-two punch to purchasing from my FLGS. As much as I'd like to support my local store for carrying your product, I actually end up being the one to lose out if I do so. :(
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Chief Technical Officer
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I don't mean to stir things up, but I have a couple of questions, since I've asked a similar question in the past...
Doesn't that fly in the face of earlier comments that I saw from someone (Vic or Erik? Don't remember, my search-fu is weak.) that stated that the FLGS is the bulwark of the hobby, and integral to the success of all publishers, including Paizo?
There is a delicate balance to strike here. We do our best to support local game stores; many of our strategies are weighed heavily to that end, and you'll be seeing many more such strategies in the future. However, we also have to support ourselves, and our subscription model is, quite frankly, what has allowed Paizo to exist through some very difficult times. Having a predictable minimum monthly revenue stream is essential to our ongoing existence, and the subscriber perks we provide are most certainly designed to keep subscriber numbers at a high enough level to assure that we can stay in business even if everything else falters for a while.
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Director of Sales
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Finally, I'm curious - regarding your statement about predictions - am I reading too much into this, or are you implying that you sell more copies of your publications directly than you do via distributors? If this is, in fact, what occurs, is this cause of what seems to be a lack of motivation to implement a system of getting the PDFs via a retailer?
You're reading too much into this.
Keep in mind that my answer above (as well as what I'm writing right now) is not all of the information.
As far as implementing a system of getting PDFs via retail... there is not a lack of motivation so much as a lack of ability. We have explored this option before and it is always hung up on issues with security and up-front cost. We have not found a good way to deliver PDFs to FLGS customers in a secure fashion without exorbitant up-front material, labor, and opportunity costs. So far, these costs and associated risks have always outweighed the potential benefits. For just a hint of one of the myriad problems with this, see my response in this thread and realize that any change in this direction would first require a fundamental re-write of our entire subscription, payment method, and PDF distribution system. And that's just to start thinking in this direction. I'm not saying that it'll never happen, but I'm saying that doing so would be a huge undertaking for our company.
I hope that this puts your mind at ease, at least a little bit.
Thanks,
cos
It does, and I appreciate the reply from both of you.
Backing away from the PDF retail distribution issues, and addressing the bundling desire, I'm just curious if some balance could be found in protecting the sanctity/value of the subscriber benefit, while at the same time, working out a deal for someone who wants to buy up your back catalog - not giving the PDFs to a bundle buyer for free, but at a discount beyond the 30% off cover price?
I don't want to sound like a petulant child, as there's absolutely no spite intended whatsoever when I say that if I can't get a deal on the PDFs by purchasing the print copies here, then I'll either not purchase them (the PDFs), or possibly not purchase the print copies at all (I do want the PDFs that much, but I can't justify $120 for the print APs, and another $84 for the PDFs - multiplied by 4).
I do want the past APs, and I'd like to hop on the current AP subscription, and will probably do so at some point, but that point isn't right now - there's enough "backstock" of other gaming material that is out of print, and I'd like to secure some of that before it's nigh-impossible to find (or find for a reasonable price), so that's commanding my dollar right now.
The back issues of the APs are something on my buy-list, but the PDFs are a critical part of that. Given that there's no bundle option to save a few bucks, I look at options other than paizo.com to buy them. Buying them here would happen, were there a deal put together (i.e. "Buy all 6 issues of "Curse of the Crimson Throne", and get the PDFs for 50% off!" or something similar). As there isn't, I end up looking elsewhere, and find them cheaper.
Dollar doesn't completely rule, but it is a large incentive - the PDFs are here, they'll continue to be here, if/when I decide to buy them. The hypothetical package deal virtually ensures that happen, and a lot sooner.
What about some kind of coupon in the books that you can redeem for a free pdf download?
That way people who pay the full cost in the local game store will have a bonus.
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What about some kind of coupon in the books that you can redeem for a free pdf download?
That way people who pay the full cost in the local game store will have a bonus.
Because then people browse the book in the bookstore and remove the coupon (or write down the code if you're using a passcode system) then download the book.
Now the book is worth less (because it doesn't have the coupon), OR the guys that does buy is screwed out of his discounted PDF. This puts the publisher (Paizo) in the position of having to deal with on irate customer (didn't get what he paid for) and having to decide whether it's worthwhile to track down the dishonest customer (the guy that stole the coupon).
You can sort of avoid all that by shrinkwrapping the book. The problem is that customers can't thumb through it and see the contents (puts customers in the position of having to buy something "sight unseen") AND you miss out on all the people that would have been swayed solely based on the strength of the content. Paizo (Vic I think) has mentioned in the past that they want people to be able to crack open the book and thumb through it in the store.
-Skeld, the unofficial answerer
One thing I do want to mention is that we usually send out a Christmas card each year that has a one-time discount code that you can use on Paizo PDFs amongst other things. The extra discount might be what you are looking for to make the purchase of back issue PDFs more palatable.
-Lisa
Could the Christmas card code be somehow linked/listed in purchases or somewhere online in the accounts menu? I know I got one, and I'm pretty certain it expired by now, but part of why I didn't use it was that I had a catastrophic email program meltdown shortly after receipt.
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One thing I do want to mention is that we usually send out a Christmas card each year that has a one-time discount code that you can use on Paizo PDFs amongst other things. The extra discount might be what you are looking for to make the purchase of back issue PDFs more palatable.
-Lisa
AWSOME!!!
Been looking at how to get all the past AP PDF's. I know you guys had a sale going on in April for "PDF LOVE" but I couldn't do it do to ALMOST graduating from college, one more year, and a (at the time) 12 month old (who is going to inherit all my gaming stuff, including my Sultan Gaming Table!!! By the way that is how I convinced my wife into letting me get the table. :O) )
At any rate looking forward to the Christmas card....by the way my birthday is Christmas does this mean a bigger discount? Joke!
Sean
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Lisa & Vic -
Catalyst Games has come up with some method for selling PDFs at FLGS's. Maybe you guys should find out how they're going about it.
-Skeld the Generally Helpful
Edit: With Linky Goodness.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Lisa & Vic -
Catalyst Games has come up with some method for selling PDFs at FLGS's. Maybe you guys should find out how they're going about it.
-Skeld the Generally Helpful
Edit: With Linky Goodness.
Interesting. There's more information on their implementation here.
I like a lot about it. The biggest problem I see is getting stores to sign up for it, so let's see if they're able to get sufficiently more than their 9 alpha test stores.
One thing I do want to mention is that we usually send out a Christmas card each year that has a one-time discount code that you can use on Paizo PDFs amongst other things. The extra discount might be what you are looking for to make the purchase of back issue PDFs more palatable.
-Lisa
Something to look forward to. This will be my first year to get one.
Has that been a fixed discount for everyone, or is it for example scaled based on how many subscriptions one has?
Wait, come to think of it, why would this be my first year to get one, given that I was a Charter subscriber to the AP line? Hmmm...
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Chief Technical Officer
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One thing I do want to mention is that we usually send out a Christmas card each year that has a one-time discount code that you can use on Paizo PDFs amongst other things. The extra discount might be what you are looking for to make the purchase of back issue PDFs more palatable.
-Lisa
Something to look forward to. This will be my first year to get one.
Has that been a fixed discount for everyone, or is it for example scaled based on how many subscriptions one has?
Wait, come to think of it, why would this be my first year to get one, given that I was a Charter subscriber to the AP line? Hmmm...
It's been a fixed discount. 2007 was the first year, and we would have shipped a printed card along with, oh... probably Pathfinder 4. Last year was an e-mail, with the title "Holiday wishes from your friends at Paizo Publishing!" I see we sent it to you on December 23.
Last year was an e-mail, with the title "Holiday wishes from your friends at Paizo Publishing!" I see we sent it to you on December 23.
And now I see that I used it two days later. Color me embarrassed.
I presumably got the card in 2007 as well, but my Order History suggests I blew my chance to use it. Never again!