Acrobatics versus CMD

[elnopintan]

Reading the skills chapter i've come to this rule.
For me it seems a bit weird. Now tumbling against a Dragon or a Giant is more difficult due to the Size modifier and the Strength modifier.

[Nethys]

Yes.

Your God of Knowledge,
Nethys

[toyrobots]

elnopintan wrote:

Reading the skills chapter i've come to this rule.

For me it seems a bit weird. Now tumbling against a Dragon or a Giant is more difficult due to the Size modifier and the Strength modifier.

I think it is a bit weird too, but convenient.

If it really bothers you, use 10 + Melee attack bonus instead (+ dex too if you like). That should reverse the role of size in the equation.

[elnopintan]

One of the main issues I see about this new approach to Tumble (Acrobatics) using CMD is that Size Modifier is included in the DC, but not included in the skill roll.
Every other uses of CMD are against CMB and both include Size Modifier, wich is more balanced (two contendents of the same size negate the bonus to each other).

[King of Vrock]

Tumbling is no longer automatic... which is all good in my book.

--Vrock that Kick!

[elnopintan]

I like the idea of Tumble DC scaling with attack bonus, but I don't see why only the size of the defendant is applied.

[Ravingdork]

A friend of mine, new to Pathfinder, was asking about this as well. Why did they pick something as weird as CMD? Wouldn't having it opposed by CMB or something similar have made more sense?

[0gre]

elnopintan wrote:

I like the idea of Tumble DC scaling with attack bonus, but I don't see why only the size of the defendant is applied.

It is a simplification. It's the most accurate way to model things without creating yet another target number you have to track.

[Quantum Steve]

I like that tumbling isn't automatic, but I don't like that tumbling past a T-Rex is harder than past a Vampire Shadowdancer. At the very least the size bonus should be reversed.

[LoreKeeper]

I think it is very appropriate as is. And there's nothing wrong with a skill being used against CMD. See for example Escape Artist vs Grapple CMD.

[wraithstrike]

Quantum Steve wrote:

I like that tumbling isn't automatic, but I don't like that tumbling past a T-Rex is harder than past a Vampire Shadowdancer. At the very least the size bonus should be reversed.

You also have to bypass a larger area. I think making a smaller number of tumbles is easier than making a larger number of tumbles which is what happens with larger creatures.

[Quantum Steve]

wraithstrike wrote:

Quantum Steve wrote:

I like that tumbling isn't automatic, but I don't like that tumbling past a T-Rex is harder than past a Vampire Shadowdancer. At the very least the size bonus should be reversed.

You also have to bypass a larger area. I think making a smaller number of tumbles is easier than making a larger number of tumbles which is what happens with larger creatures.

I guess I can see that. It just seems it should be easier for, say a gnome, to tumble through the legs of a big dumb dinosaur with stubby little arms than past a DEXy Shadowdancer; and one with the Vampire template to boot.

[Nidome]

wraithstrike wrote:

You also have to bypass a larger area. I think making a smaller number of tumbles is easier than making a larger number of tumbles which is what happens with larger creatures.

Actually it would make more sense if the size modifier was applied to the creature tumbling rather than the creature being tumbled past.

After all, it should be more difficult for a large creature to tumble though an opponent than a medium creature of the same skill.