Weaponized Monks


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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There is another thread in this forum regarding which classes people would like to see added to PFRPG, which I perused but didn't post in. I saw several ideas for new classes- Sword Saint, Kensai and Ninja- which to my mind all screamed 'Monk with sword.' (I do understand that other people probably have different visions for these proposed classes)

My question is: do other people think that it would be game breaking to allow monks to use non-monk specific weapons- including for flurry of blows, and Ki pool (if the weapon has the Ki enhancement)?

I would suggest feats such as Simple Weapon Mastery, Martial Weapon Mastery, Exotic Weapon Mastery which allow a monk to incorporate other weapons, and treat them as monk weapons. (these feat names are my names for hypothetical feats, If there are already feats with these names, I am not referring to those). So a monk with the right feats could treat any weapon as a monk weapon.

In all honesty, I admit that I am biased. I think all of the monk weapons are "dippy" (for lack of a better term), except maybe for the quarterstaff, which is hardly the best weapon in the game. Does anyone else think it would be cool to improve their weapon selection, or could it overpower the class in a disgusting fashion?

Scarab Sages

Dilvish the Danged wrote:

There is another thread in this forum regarding which classes people would like to see added to PFRPG, which I perused but didn't post in. I saw several ideas for new classes- Sword Saint, Kensai and Ninja- which to my mind all screamed 'Monk with sword.' (I do understand that other people probably have different visions for these proposed classes)

Is anyone working on pathfinderazing the oriental adventures classes and stuff?


IIRC there are some feats which allow the monk to use other weapons as monk weapons, somewhere in 3E. I remember a longsword one. I (personally) have no problem with it, for the cost of a feat (2 if you want to use an exotic wep).


Dilvish the Danged wrote:


My question is: do other people think that it would be game breaking to allow monks to use non-monk specific weapons- including for flurry of blows, and Ki pool (if the weapon has the Ki enhancement)?

Yes, it would be the end of roleplaying as we know it. Maybe life, too.

;-)

I don't think it would really unbalance the class. It means you don't need an amulet of mighty fists and use a magic weapon, but eventually, the unarmed monk damage will be better than that.

Unless you get some weirdo who finds broken combinations and plays them, you should be fine. If you get such a weirdo, I suggest torturing him to death as an example for others, and you should be fine.

Scarab Sages

Plus is sounds like either you or your player wants to play a character concept, as apposed to someone looking to cheat the rules. I always encourage creativity unless it ruins it for everyone.


@ Kae Yoss
Since Monks don't use shields, a monk has little reason not to select a two handed weapon, like a greatsword. Until he reaches 16th level, the sword outdamages the fist.


Abbigail the Glass wrote:
Plus is sounds like either you or your player wants to play a character concept

Haven't found a local game yet, but it is possible I will be DM'ing when I do.


mach1.9pants wrote:
IIRC there are some feats which allow the monk to use other weapons as monk weapons, somewhere in 3E. I remember a longsword one. I (personally) have no problem with it, for the cost of a feat (2 if you want to use an exotic wep).

Eberron had feats that allowed you to use the Longsword, Double Sword, or (GASP!) longspear. Must... not... gripe... about... monks... not... having... spears! Ok I'm good now.

The suggestion I had put forward would be to use a variant of monk that lost a lot of its unarmed damage (start at the base 1d2S/1d3M) and got a weapon of choice as a proficiency that counts as a monk weapon (maybe limit it some to avoid Greatswords and such if you want to avoid the anime). Allow them to Flurry of Blows, Ki Strike, Stunning Blow, etc through their specialized weapon.

I'd avoid the feat method because it makes doing things like taking a level of Fighter rather then taking the monk weapon feat and martial weapon for a longsword.

Dark Archive

Two options I'm seeing;

1) I'd be fine with a house-rule that each Monk at 1st level chooses a single weapon that his particular 'school' or 'style' teaches in addition to the traditional Monk weapons. This would be the 'something for nothing' option and I'm not sure whether or not I like it.

2) Alternately, it could be done as an Alternate Class Feature. The 'standard Monk package' would include Siangham, Nunchaku and Kama as special Monk weapons. A different Monk could choose a single spear, sword or other 'special Monk weapon' that he becomes proficient with, and able to Flurry with, instead of these three weapons. All other 'special Monk weapons,' such as the quarterstaff, sai, etc. would be available to all Monks.

He'd essentially be swapping out these three Exotic Weapon Proficiencies (Kama, Nunchaku and Siangham) and the ability to Flurry with these weapons and replacing them with a single other Simple (spear), Martial (longsword) or Exotic (spiked chain) Weapon proficiency and the ability to Flurry with that weapon.

IMO, the Kama, Nunchaku and Siangham kinda rot, and I'd happily trade the three of them for a reach weapon or a longsword, but it's still, mechanically, swapping three exotic weapon profs (and the ability to flurry with them) for a single simple, martial or exotic weapon prof, so it at least represents a sacrifice (which might become an issue if your Flurry choices no longer include B, S and P options for overcoming damage resistance).

Of course, there's already precedent for flurrying with ranged weapons (the shuriken), so the option of choosing the longbow as one's new weapon option is a wonky possibility...

The other, other option to weaponize a Monk would be to dip him in anthrax. :)


I fail to see how the longbow monk is so wonky. Historically the bow was a weapon used by some monastic orders (hence where the flavor for the Order of the Bow initiate class was picked up from.)

Granted if I remember right they were all about the slow perfect shots rather than a flurry though, so an interesting thing to do would be to apply the Beta Vital Strike chain to the bow's full attack action instead of a flurry.


It isn't only that the monk specific weapons stink, it's that to me, monks seem to lack variety, that other classes have. All of your features, except for bonus feats, are predetermined. Your choice of weapons is limited.

I wouldn't expect to see much diversity among monks played by different players. Most other classes offer many options -although paladins also seem fairly uniform to me.

Dark Archive

kyrt-ryder wrote:
I fail to see how the longbow monk is so wonky. Historically the bow was a weapon used by some monastic orders (hence where the flavor for the Order of the Bow initiate class was picked up from.)

I don't have a problem with it, and know enough about the use of the bow in eastern traditions to find it even to work thematically, but I imagine that a longbow-wielding Monk would probably mess with the expectations of some others.

It would make a neat sort of 'green arrow' build, particularly to mimic the female character from the Longbow Hunter miniseries. Martial artist / zen archer with a bow.


On the subject of weaponized monks, am I the only one who thinks that there should be a feat allowing monks to deal their unarmed damage through monk weapons?


I think that not being worse off for using a weapon, is a step in the right direction.

The last time I played a monk character (actually the only monk character I ever played), was AD&D. The AD&D monk added 1/2 his monk level to weapon damage, when using a monk approved weapon. This generally meant a monk was slightly more dangerous when armed, then when unarmed, at any level.

This feature was dropped entirely in 3ed and later versions of the monk. Hence, at high levels a monk is now better off punching, then grabbing a weapon and swinging/stabbing/bludgeoning a foe.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Campaign Setting has the Temple Sword as a monk weapon. Why they didn't include that in the PFRPG I don't know but it has the same stats as a longsword if memory recalls.

Liberty's Edge

Dilvish the Danged wrote:
There is another thread in this forum regarding which classes people would like to see added to PFRPG, which I perused but didn't post in. I saw several ideas for new classes- Sword Saint, Kensai and Ninja- which to my mind all screamed 'Monk with sword.' (I do understand that other people probably have different visions for these proposed classes)

Before I answer you post, I'd like to point out that "kensai" is the incorrect spelling. It should be "kensei". Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine.

That said, I had created a feat in 3.5 that allows a monk to use a non-monk weapon as if it were a monk weapon....

Weapon Flurry
Through monastic weapon training, you have mastered a fighting style that makes use of an unusual monk weapon. Choose one type of weapon, such as greataxe, for which you have already selected the Weapon Focus feat.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, flurry of blows class feature.
Benefit: You can treat the selected weapon as a special monk weapon, allowing you to perform a flurry of blows with it. You may only select a weapon with a damage value equal to or less than your base unarmed strike damage value. For example, Sajan a Medium 4th-level monk with a base 1d8 unarmed strike damage could select a flail (1d8 damage), a falchion (2d4) or any other weapon with an equal or less damage value with the Weapon Flurry feat, assuming he is also proficient with that weapon and has previously selected Weapon Focus for it.
Special: This feat can be taken multiple times, one for each weapon.

---

This may not be a perfect fit for what you're looking for, but I hope it helps.


Just a quibble, but 2d4 (damage range 2-8, average damage 5) is a greater damage value than 1d8 (damage range 1-8, average damage 4.5).


Azzy wrote:


Before I answer you post, I'd like to point out that "kensai" is the incorrect spelling. It should be "kensei". Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine.

No need to apologize. I also mis-spelled Weaponized in the thread title.

Many of the suggestions in this thread are close to what I am looking for, but I don't think I've found it yet. (BTW I like the fact that you recommend Great Axe inthe feat description).

Unfortunately, what I am hoping to discover an option for the Monk to be a truly effective weapon wielder, without overpowering the class or completely re-writing it. This may not be possible.

Liberty's Edge

I wouldn't allow a monk to flurry with a greatsword. For one thing, he's supposed to be making attacks "as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat". Should a 1st level monk get multiple attacks with a greatsword? I don't think so. If a fighter can't do it, I don't see why a monk should be able to.

The idea for a feat proposed by Azzy seems plausible, as a monk would have to be 12th level to be able to use a greatsword as a monk weapon.

Still, I have my doubts that flurrying with a greatsword is being suggested for roleplaying reasons.

It's your game, though, so do as you think best.


Dilvish the Danged wrote:
Azzy wrote:


Before I answer you post, I'd like to point out that "kensai" is the incorrect spelling. It should be "kensei". Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine.

No need to apologize. I also mis-spelled Weaponized in the thread title.

Many of the suggestions in this thread are close to what I am looking for, but I don't think I've found it yet. (BTW I like the fact that you recommend Great Axe inthe feat description).

Unfortunately, what I am hoping to discover an option for the Monk to be a truly effective weapon wielder, without overpowering the class or completely re-writing it. This may not be possible.

Define being an effective weapon wielder.

If they can flurry with it, its at a BaB of their class level -2, but for the extra attacks. So in terms of offense, they are on par with a fighter, possible a notch above, as a fighter has to duel wield to recieve the same number of attacks at the same BaB. Yes, thanks to a couple of his class features, the fighter has a few points more to hit and damage, but the monk has other abilities the fighter would be very hard pressed to duplicate.

Mmm...in damage terms...I'd say with flurry, they are good. Still a notch behind the fighter, true, but then, the fighter deals in two things, taking damage and dishing it out...combat is where fighters should be the gold standard, so unless you strip out some of the monks less combat oriented abilities, I'd say its fine as is.

I guess it all comes down to what your defining as being an effective weapon wielder.

If you really want...I can repost in here what I put in the other thread for Kensei (Azzy...don't be a spelling nazi...makes me a sad panda =P Had to retype that twice lol) does as a fighter with some monk abilities.

*Edit
Oh, and Heymitch...flurrying with a greatsword isn't that bad...the rules for a monk flurry specifically state you only add +str for damage regardless of how you wield the weapon. So its not that terribly bad.


Heymitch wrote:
Still, I have my doubts that flurrying with a greatsword is being suggested for roleplaying reasons.

I have my own issues with armed monks being less dangerous than unarmed ones for roleplaying reasons.

And for the record, I think that sans spending feats,monks should probably be stuck with monk weapons. Low level monks may not qualify for feats that let them use better weapons.

What I am looking for is a simple way for them to have the option of becoming either effective weapon wieders (with effective weapons), or effective unarmed grapplers (not punchers).

Liberty's Edge

Dilvish the Danged wrote:

Unfortunately, what I am hoping to discover an option for the Monk to be a truly effective weapon wielder, without overpowering the class or completely re-writing it. This may not be possible.

Consider giving the Monk/Kensei:

Level 1:
Signature Weapon (Weapon of Choice. Can now be used with flurry. Gain Weapon Focus feat for free)
Unarmed Strike Damage - Progresses half the speed (maximum would now be 1d10)

Level 4:
Ki Pool:
Make all damage reduction abilities apply to their signature weapon instead of unarmed strikes. This now means their unarmed strikes do NOT gain the benefit of overcoming DR as they progress.

As well, allow Ki Focus to be used for 1 Ki point per round, functioning just like magic item property of the same name. Can only be used with Signature Weapon

Level 6:
Add Weapon Specialization under bonus feat option list (for signature weapon only)

Level 10:
Add Greater Weapon Focus (Signature Weapon)

Now of course you might have people immediately reaching for like Greatsword to break the system at the beginning. To help impede such decisions I would make it so any Signature weapon does NOT benefit from 1.5 strength if used two handed or something like that.

Iono, just an idea lay out


Krigare wrote:


Define being an effective weapon wielder.

Fighter is liable to have a significantly higher attack bonus for his attacks and since the fighter has access to specialization & greater specialization, plus many more bonus feats to spend on power attack, cleave, etc., I would have to say that flurry of blows doesn't really even the score until high levels (like 12th or higher).

I haven't done any math on monk damage per round, so I can't say for sure. If anything you posted regarding Kensei applies here, please post it or link it.


Dilvish the Danged wrote:
Krigare wrote:


Define being an effective weapon wielder.

Fighter is liable to have a significantly higher attack bonus for his attacks and since the fighter has access to specialization & greater specialization, plus many more bonus feats to spend on power attack, cleave, etc., I would have to say that flurry of blows doesn't really even the score until high levels (like 12th or higher).

I haven't done any math on monk damage per round, so I can't say for sure. If anything you posted regarding Kensei applies here, please post it or link it.

This is how I'd do a Kensei. Its based off the 1st edition AD&D Kensei class from Oriental Adventures. Its a fighter variant, not a monk variant per se. As I put in the post earlier...I typed this up in word in about 10 minutes, with about 5 minutes or so of planning thought...so consider it a very rough alpha version that probably needs a bit of tweaking and polishing (and playtesting!!!) before I'd call it good.

Drop the fighters armor and shield proficiencies, the armor training and mastery abilities, the weapon training abilities (keeping weapon mastery though), and some of the bonus feats (like the one at 1st level, not sure about which others) and give them the Monks AC Bonus ability, and these:

Weapon of Choice
At 1st level, A Kensei must choose a weapon to master. This can be any weapon usable by a character of the Kensei’s size and race. If necessary, he gains proficiency in the weapon. This is the weapon the Kensei has chosen to master, and many of his class abilities only function when he uses a non-magical version of this weapon. His intense focus with this weapon grants him certain benefits. At 1st level, he may make an additional attack per round during the full attack option by taking a -2 penalty to all attack rolls that round. At 8th level, this ability improves, and he may make the additional attack when using a standard action to attack (still taking the -2 penalty). At 16th level, this ability improves again, allowing the Kensei to make an additional two attacks during a full attack action, the first at his base attack bonus, the second at his base attack bonus -5. He still takes a -2 penalty to all attacks during the round. Additionally, for every 5 levels gained, the kensei gets a +1 bonus to hit and damage with his weapon of choice.

Focused Training.
At 3rd level, the Kensei receives a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls when using his weapon of choice. This bonus increases by +1 at 7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th levels, for a total of +5 at 19th level. From this point on, any non-magical version of his weapon of choice is treated as a magical weapon for purposes of bypassing damage reduction .

Weapon Bond.
At 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th levels, the Kensei’s supreme skill with his weapon has allowed him to duplicate certain magical abilities normally applied to weapons. He can choose any ability from the following list, subject to any level restriction listed.
Bane
Distance
Ghost touch
Keen
Merciful
Mighty cleaving
Returning
Seeking
Throwing
Thundering
Vicious
Anarchic 9th
Axiomatic 9th
Disruption 9th
Holy 9th
Unholy 9th
Speed 13th
Vorpal 17th

*Edit: Oh...and actually, when using flurry, a monk is actually better dps than an equivilent level figther in some ways, as he gets the BaB of a fighter of his level, using TWF fairly appropriate for his level, and with his full strength mod on all the attacks, with no extra feat expenditure (which takes 2 feats for a fighter to do)


Krigare wrote:
Kensei stuff

What I am hoping to discover is a way to make a Monk function as a Kensei (or close enough until Paizo develops one), without changing the class. The problem with a chosen weapon at first level, as I see it, is that the character just might overshadow all other melee characters at low levels.

I could definately dig a monk-ish character class with a badass favored weapon at first level, and steadily accruing bonuses with said weapon. However, if the character also had all the same abilities as a monk of equal level, I think it would be overpowered. If it developed monk abilities at a reduced rate (1/2 level or level minus 3, or something), then it would be a whole nother class.


Dilvish the Danged wrote:
Krigare wrote:
Kensei stuff

What I am hoping to discover is a way to make a Monk function as a Kensei (or close enough until Paizo develops one), without changing the class. The problem with a chosen weapon at first level, as I see it, is that the character just might overshadow all other melee characters.

I could definately dig a monk-ish character class with a badass favored weapon at first level, and steadily accruing bonuses with said weapon. However, if the character also had all the same abilities as a monk of equal level, I think it would be overpowered. If it developed monk abilities at a reduced rate (1/2 level or level minus 3, or something), then it would be a whole nother class.

Assuming what I posted above isn't what your looking for, I'd say your looking at having to sub out a monks unarmed damage ability for getting proficiency with a weapon of the players choice and making it a monk weapon, with bonuses to hit and damage based on level (they would still lag behind fighters a bit, due to lack of greater weapon focus and both weapon specs, but youd's keep with weapon training at least. A minor tweak of the Ki ability (namely allowing its effects to apply a weapon instead of unarmed strike) would probably do it.

And you pretty much have a monk who can't win a fistfight easily, but he slices and dices pretty well.

Oh, and without altering flurry, at first level, his offensive potential at least is marginally better than a fighters on a full attack.

My only problem with it, that for soemthing like a Kensei, if you have to move and attack, the fighter all of a sudden massively outdoes you on offense. He not only has better damage potential, he is much more accurate. I suppose you could see that as a reasonable trade off, but to me it seems like an aweful big trade.


Oh, by the way: Am I the only one who thought the OP would be talking about shooting monks with catapults or ballistae when he read the thread name?


KaeYoss wrote:

Oh, by the way: Am I the only one who thought the OP would be talking about shooting monks with catapults or ballistae when he read the thread name?

Actually, I was thinking more along the line of giving them poison and disease attacks, area effect, and then using catapults, ballistae or flying calavary as a delivery system...but...whatever works =)


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Dilvish the Danged wrote:

It isn't only that the monk specific weapons stink, it's that to me, monks seem to lack variety, that other classes have. All of your features, except for bonus feats, are predetermined. Your choice of weapons is limited.

I wouldn't expect to see much diversity among monks played by different players. Most other classes offer many options -although paladins also seem fairly uniform to me.

Monk weapons are not ment for doing damage. As 1h weapons go the unarmed strike does more dmg than most weapons. I beleive you use the Monk weapons for disarm and trip attemps which can be used with your flury and interchangable with your unarmed strike. That being said a feat alowing 1h weapons to be used in fluries would be no problem. But I disagree that monk weapons stink. They are just not very good when attacking monsters with natural attacks.


I started a thread in homebrew section and posted my bright ideas for a feat chain that monks could follow to better their weapon prowess. Check it out and let me know what you think.

It's called Monk weapon feats-- Please critique. I can't get my browser to follow a link from this thread to that one, otherwise I would post the url.

In short, I made weapon wielding monk only versions of arcane strike, greater weapon focus, and weapon specialization plus a couple of other feats- including one that allows you to treat a weapon of your choice as a monk special weapon.

I also posted some guidelines as to how I think two handed weapons should work with flurry of blows.

Dark Archive

KaeYoss wrote:
Oh, by the way: Am I the only one who thought the OP would be talking about shooting monks with catapults or ballistae when he read the thread name?

Use a variation on Shrink Item to turn the Monk into a crossbow bolt and shoot them at the enemy, then cancel the spell and have him unleash the fury!


This is not a Monk focused wholly on using a weapon, but close enough that I'll share my thoughts.

Take Martial Weapon Prof: Glaive (to replicate the chinese Gundao) and Combat Reflexes. AoO your opponents as they come into reach and unleash Flurry attacks with your feet/knees/head/whatever once they get into melee range.

Only a theory so far, but the image is awesome enough in my (slightly disturbed) head.


Would it be terribly weird to change the monk weapon proficiency to all simple weapons, and allow the monk to flurry with simple weapons and the shuriken? This opens up a decent number of options, really.

Essentially, the monk weapons are all essentially better constructed versions of other simple weapons, with the exception of the nunchucks, which are essentially a light flail, a martial weapon.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
KaeYoss wrote:

Oh, by the way: Am I the only one who thought the OP would be talking about shooting monks with catapults or ballistae when he read the thread name?

I imagined an ogre beating on the party with their monk. :)

As to monk flurry, I prefer to just let the monk flurry with any weapon they are proficient with. Simple, and rewards multiclassing or, heaven help them, taking a feat.

Also, there were feats in 3.5 that let monks deal unarmed strike damage with special monk weapons. I think one was called Weapon Kata, and there was one in Dragon magazine.


Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

My thought on reading the title of the thread was also along the lines of turning a monk into a weapon. Possibly a poisonous gas (S.B.D.)

On topic however... How about a single feat that opens up the rest of the weapons a Monk is proficient with as monk weapons?

Example Feat wrote:

Weapon Style

Your monk order is one that focuses on attacks with weapons just as much as unarmed attacks.

Prerequisite: Monk
Benefit: You may now use the club, dagger, handaxe, javelin, shortspear, short sword, and spear as monk weapons.

Something sorta like that?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Lokie wrote:
Example Feat wrote:

Weapon Style

Your monk order is one that focuses on attacks with weapons just as much as unarmed attacks.

Benefit: You count any weapon you are proficient with as a monk weapon.

That's how I do it. Except it's a class feature and not a feat. :)


Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Lokie wrote:
Example Feat wrote:

Weapon Style

Your monk order is one that focuses on attacks with weapons just as much as unarmed attacks.

Benefit: You count any weapon you are proficient with as a monk weapon.

That's how I do it. Except it's a class feature and not a feat. :)

Add it to the "Bonus Feat" list a Monk can select from and that feat would become a "Class Feature" :D

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Lokie wrote:
Add it to the "Bonus Feat" list a Monk can select from and that feat would become a "Class Feature" :D

Just like "Natural Spell", amirite? CX


Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Lokie wrote:
Add it to the "Bonus Feat" list a Monk can select from and that feat would become a "Class Feature" :D
Just like "Natural Spell", amirite? CX

Bahh! Talking animals?!? Thats outrageous! :P


Dilvish the Danged wrote:

@ Kae Yoss

Since Monks don't use shields, a monk has little reason not to select a two handed weapon, like a greatsword. Until he reaches 16th level, the sword outdamages the fist.

Unless the monk is using amulet of mighty fists and wearing a monk's robe. Then I think unarmed strikes out-damage the current monk's weapon damage much earlier, like around 10 or 11.

Spend one feat and get the temple sword, enchant it, use power attack and save up for those other previously mentioned items(among others of course) for 7 or so levels.


Monks need all the help they can get, honestly enough.

What I've done: Monks can directly get their body enchanted as a weapon (no making them pay five times the amount other classes do to get their enchantments), they get proficiency in one extra weapon of their choice to make it into a monk weapon, and their monk weapons gain unarmed damage if they choose.

I've found they still don't overshadow fighters, and now they can not only finally hold their own, but they can also be personalized.

Then again, I typically give EVERY class weapon proficiency in one weapon of their choice. Most of the time, exotic weapons simply aren't all that better then their regular cousins.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
ProfessorCirno wrote:
Then again, I typically give EVERY class weapon proficiency in one weapon of their choice. Most of the time, exotic weapons simply aren't all that better then their regular cousins.

And like most melee bits, what weapon you're using is mostly unimportant once you get higher in level. It becomes about the static bonuses to damage you get on each attack rather than what type of die you're rolling.


Jason asked in a separate thread about what we'd like to see in the books beyond AGP and in another thread what we'd like to see as far as alternate class abilities go.

My response was the same in both :

More alternate class abilities.

I'd love to see an alternate class ability for the monk that gives light armor and martial weapons but takes away their built in AC bonuses. That would be a good way to simulate some of the more martial monk archetypes, and also some of the Anime type martial orders.

I'd also love to see an alternate class ability that replaces flurry of blows with a Zen Archery type ability, and puts in archery feats instead of the current unarmed feats.

I would also love to see a blended magic/monk type base class, similar to the way Inquisitor is done (similar in that it's a spontaneous caster (6 levels) mixed with a martial artist instead of ranger).


TriOmegaZero wrote:
ProfessorCirno wrote:
Then again, I typically give EVERY class weapon proficiency in one weapon of their choice. Most of the time, exotic weapons simply aren't all that better then their regular cousins.
And like most melee bits, what weapon you're using is mostly unimportant once you get higher in level. It becomes about the static bonuses to damage you get on each attack rather than what type of die you're rolling.

Yep.

If someone wants to use a cool exotic weapon, I say more power to them. In early levels it's what, an extra .5, 1 damage on average? That really doesn't add up too much at higher levels. Players shouldn't be punished for wanting to be cool, which is sadly what exotic weapon often comes out to be.

That said, I also frown on the "Like ___, but better!" exotic weapons, at least for the purpose of the freebie. 3.5 had a whole score of them in I think CWar.


ProfessorCirno wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
ProfessorCirno wrote:
Then again, I typically give EVERY class weapon proficiency in one weapon of their choice. Most of the time, exotic weapons simply aren't all that better then their regular cousins.
And like most melee bits, what weapon you're using is mostly unimportant once you get higher in level. It becomes about the static bonuses to damage you get on each attack rather than what type of die you're rolling.

Yep.

If someone wants to use a cool exotic weapon, I say more power to them. In early levels it's what, an extra .5, 1 damage on average? That really doesn't add up too much at higher levels. Players shouldn't be punished for wanting to be cool, which is sadly what exotic weapon often comes out to be.

That said, I also frown on the "Like ___, but better!" exotic weapons, at least for the purpose of the freebie. 3.5 had a whole score of them in I think CWar.

Traditionally, monks use LOTS of interesting weapons and even shields. Just not actual armor.

Trade your Monk's wisdom to AC bonus for Shield proficiency and adding the shield line of feats to their list of monk feats.

Allow a class of weapons to be used instead of Flurry of Blows as a class variant, then give the monk access to the fighter's weapon feats or alternately a ranger combat style in TWF. (They lose access to the Good BAB, but gain use of higher critical weapons or reach weapons)

Yes, monks SHOULD HAVE SPEARS!

Liberty's Edge

I've seen a lot of mention about monk temple swords in various posts. Is there some Open source location where I can see what the stats for this weapon is?


Nikolaus Athas wrote:
I've seen a lot of mention about monk temple swords in various posts. Is there some Open source location where I can see what the stats for this weapon is?

Here's the Golarion stats on the weapon;

Temple Sword: Typically used by
guardians of religious sites, temple swords have
distinctive crescent-shaped blades, appearing as an
amalgam of a sickle and sword. Many temple swords have
holes drilled into the blade or places on the pommel where
charms, bells, or other holy trinkets might be attached.
You can use a temple sword to make trip attacks. If someone
would otherwise trip you in retaliation, you can choose to
drop the temple sword to avoid being tripped.
A temple sword is a monk special weapon. This gives a
monk wielding a temple sword special options.

Not bad. Your monk still needs feats to optimize it. Stat-wise, it's a longsword.

Liberty's Edge

Ah ok - thank you sir

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