I "know" why Spiked Chain was nerfed!


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I just figured it out, and it makes a lot of sense.

"Great Cleave" (and maybe Whirlwind Attack) allows him multiple attacks.

Think of this scenario:
After the cleric casts his Bless spell, and the Bard does his bardsong, the mighty 18 Str fighter with his +2 Spiked Chain is has enlarged by the party wizard.

Now the mighty fighter runs into the middle of a crowd of 12 enemy. On either side of him, they are 3 rows deep, at 10', 15', and 20' away from him.

Using Power Attack, Cleave, and Great Cleave, he hits the first, which allows him to hit the second, which allows him to also attack the third, which may allow him to get all the way to an attack against the 12th.

And while not all combats involve hordes, having an enlarged fighter with a spiked chain and great cleave means he's goign to be hitting everything withing a 25' radius from his center as long as he doesn't miss.

Sure, he could use a pole arm with reach, but that doesn't allow him to hit the 32 squares immediately next to him.

It makes the S.C. the "Must Have" weapon for Great Cleave fighters, even if they aren't enlarged.

I no longer have a problem with the S.C. being nerfed since they've changed the way cleave works.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Just as a note the targets of Cleave/Great Cleave must be adjacent to the first target so it won't be 25' radius of the attacker.

Edit: it would still be a nasty situation however.


Chovesh wrote:
Sure, he could use a pole arm with reach, but that doesn't allow him to hit the 32 squares immediately next to him.

Of course, he could have always taken improved unarmed as a feat instead of EWP(Spiked chain). Then with a normal reach weapon and his unarmed, he would threaten just as many squares as he would have with a spiked chain.


Cleave, Great Cleave, and especially Whirlwind attack have been around for a long time, so that's probably not what broke it, though I think they definitely contributed.

I think the addition of Lunge was the biggest contributor alongside these other feats.

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