Clerics channel energy ability doesn't scale with level while paladins have theirs scaling. That means a level 16 paladin outchannel a cleric 20.
Is this working as intented, or am I missing something?
It looks like it.. but keep in mind that Paladins need to use up their Lay on Hands ability to use it. So he's essentially being taxed twice to use it.
The cleric's Channel Energy does increase with level. At level 20, both Paladins and Clerics heal for 10d6 points of damage. The Cleric can (probably) do it more times per day, though.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/cleric.html#channel-energy-cleri c
The cleric's Channel Energy does increase with level. At level 20, both Paladins and Clerics heal for 10d6 points of damage. The Cleric can (probably) do it more times per day, though.
Yes, channel energy scale in power the same way for both class.Yet a level 16 Paladin can channel energy up to 4 + Cha, while the 20 cleric can only do that up to the basic 3 + cha.
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The cleric's Channel Energy does increase with level. At level 20, both Paladins and Clerics heal for 10d6 points of damage. The Cleric can (probably) do it more times per day, though.
Yes, channel energy scale in power the same way for both class.Yet a level 16 Paladin can channel energy up to 4 + Cha, while the 20 cleric can only do that up to the basic 3 + cha.
4 + 1/2 Charisma, actually. 8 + Cha, then 2 charges per use.
So a level 16 Cleric with a 16 Charisma could channel 6/day.
A level 16 Paladin with a 16 Charisma would have 11 Lay on Hand uses, or could channel 5/day.
By level 20 the Paladin would have equal uses, not more. 13 uses of Lay on Hands, or 6 uses of Channel Energy. And he has to wait until then to even equal the Cleric uses. Levels 1 - 17 the Paladin will have less uses than a level 1 Cleric with equal Charisma.
It's also expected that he's unable to keep his Charisma as high as the pure caster. The Paladin needs to also worry about Strength and Constitution. The clerics main worries, being a full caster, are Wisdom and Charisma, and so can focus on them more.
Your God of Knowledge,
Nethys
4 + 1/2 Charisma, actually. 8 + Cha, then 2 charges per use.
So a level 16 Cleric with a 16 Charisma could channel 6/day.
A level 16 Paladin with a 16 Charisma would have 11 Lay on Hand uses, or could channel 5/day.
By level 20 the Paladin would have equal uses, not more. 13 uses of Lay on Hands, or 6 uses of Channel Energy. And he has to wait until then to even equal the Cleric uses. Levels 1 - 17 the Paladin will have less uses than a level 1 Cleric with equal Charisma.
It's also expected that he's unable to keep his Charisma as high as the pure caster. The Paladin needs to also worry about Strength and Constitution. The clerics main worries, being a full caster, are Wisdom and Charisma, and so can focus on them more.
Your God of Knowledge,
Nethys
Ooops, forgot to divide the Charisma, you are right Paladin can only hope to catch the cleric by level 20 ... and I guess it's fair at that level.
I disagree on the paladin inability to keep his Charisma as high as a pure caster. Head slot works for Wisdom and Charisma, Cleric needs both while Paladin needs mainly to worry about Charisma on that slot (well can be argued).
Clerics only have one feat for extra channels, Paladin can get more with Extra Lay hands.
Sure it mainly depends on the builds, but I was just wondering if Paladins being better at channeling energy than cleric at any point was surprising. Though it's slightly harder than I thought at first.
Extra Channel
You can channel divine energy more often.
Prerequisite: Channel energy class feature.
Benefit: You can channel energy two additional times per day.
Special: If a paladin with the ability to channel positive energy takes this feat, she can use lay on hands four additional times a day, but only to channel positive energy.
I was reading the extra channel and extra lay on hads feats and noted that you cant pick extra channel more than once because it dosent say it in the Special section of the feat, is this correct? IIRC you could take extar turning more than once before.
Quandary: Note, the last bit isn't even strictly necessary. If you have Channel Energy class Feature, with this Feat, you can Channel Energy 2 more times. Doesn't matter if you normally convert Rage Points into Channel Energy somehow, you now can Channel Energy two more times/day.
It is somewhat necessary. If the lay on hands points granted by this feat were not specifically set aside for channeling energy, it would outclass the Extra Lay on Hands feat, since Paladins would just take Extra Channeling and use those points to use their lay on hands AND channeling, as opposed to only being able to use it for channeling.
Where outside that "Special" section is ANY mention of Lay on Hands?
Where outside that "Special" section is ANY mention of Lay on Hands?
It's not unreasonable to assume that someone would backtrack it out if that wasn't there.
"Okay, i can use channel energy 2 more times per day. 1 channel energy is 2 lay on hands. So 2 channels = 4 lay on hands. Sweet, that's more then the extra lay hands feat
I agree, it's basically a no-brainer however.
Cleric CHA bonus translates directly to uses, while the Paladin is 1/2 CHA bonus, but the Paladin gets better with level. I wonder if having the Paladin grow more effective with channeling relative to the Cleric with increased level was intentional?
Cleric CHA bonus translates directly to uses, while the Paladin is 1/2 CHA bonus, but the Paladin gets better with level. I wonder if having the Paladin grow more effective with channeling relative to the Cleric with increased level was intentional?Off topic just a little but, what happens if you multi-class CL/PL
Do you add the dice for healing / Damage?
While the "paladin uses her level as her effective cleric level when channeling positive energy," neither class says anything about stacking with other classes that channel energy. The few prestige classes that do stack (Holy Hindicator) specifically say they stack.
So, no, Cleric and Paladin channel wouldn't stack. You would have two separate abilities. One 3+CHA times per day at your Cleric level, and one (Pal level+CHA)/2 at your Paladin level.
The few prestige classes that do stack (Holy Hindicator) specifically say they stack.
How does Holy Vindicator stack with paladin levels? Because it doesn't say that Lay On Hands stacks, it just says that channel energy does. So does that mean you don't get more uses but the uses you do have get stronger as if you were a cleric of your combined paladin+vindicator level?
The few prestige classes that do stack (Holy Hindicator) specifically say they stack.How does Holy Vindicator stack with paladin levels? Because it doesn't say that Lay On Hands stacks, it just says that channel energy does. So does that mean you don't get more uses but the uses you do have get stronger as if you were a cleric of your combined paladin+vindicator level?
Holy Vindicator does not stack with Lay on Hands. It does not increase your dice nor does it give more uses per day. It DOES however stack with channel energy. So channel energy still costs 2 uses of Lay on Hands(and you don't get anymore of those), you would add you HV levels and Pal levels when determining your effective cleric level for the effectiveness of channel energy (i.e. how many dice and the DC)
So a Pal 8/HV 5 with an 18 CHA would get 8 uses of Lay on Hands. He would Lay on Hands for 4d6. The DC for his Lay on Hands (if he used it to damage undead) would be 18.
He would Channel Energy as a 13th level Cleric. 7d6 with a DC of 20. He would only be able to Channel Energy a maximum of 4 times per day, only have 8 uses of Lay on Hands.