Who can wield a Rod / Staff / Wand


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

Ok, I always got confused in 3.5 and now in PFRPG as to who (as in class) can use a rod, a staff and a wand. I was told at one stage only wizards/sorcerers could wield one of them and I can't seem to find a clear indication in the book if this is the case. Can any class use all of them?

cheers
BC

Liberty's Edge

Rods can be used by anyone. Metamagic rods generally only provide a benefit to spellcasters.

Wands and Staves are spell-activation items. They can be used regularly by classes who have the spells in them on their spell list and who can cast them (i.e. right level, high enough ability score, etc). However, the Use Magic Device skill makes it possible for anyone to use them.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
stardust wrote:

Rods can be used by anyone. Metamagic rods generally only provide a benefit to spellcasters.

Wands and Staves are spell-activation items. They can be used regularly by classes who have the spells in them on their spell list and who can cast them (i.e. right level, high enough ability score, etc). However, the Use Magic Device skill makes it possible for anyone to use them.

Thanks! Thought that was the case just wanted clarification :-)


stardust wrote:


Wands and Staves are spell-activation items. They can be used regularly by classes who have the spells in them on their spell list and who can cast them (i.e. right level, high enough ability score, etc).

Not quite - according to the PRD they are spell trigger items and

"Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin. The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity."

In other words the only requirement is for the spell to be on the class spell list, you do not actually to be of a level to cast the spell (or even able to cast spells in the case of paladins, rangers and the like) nor do you require a stat high enough to cast the spell in the wand/staff.

Liberty's Edge

Huh... okay, thanks for clarifying that for us.

Scarab Sages

Skullking wrote:
stardust wrote:


Wands and Staves are spell-activation items. They can be used regularly by classes who have the spells in them on their spell list and who can cast them (i.e. right level, high enough ability score, etc).

Not quite - according to the PRD they are spell trigger items and

"Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin. The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity."

In other words the only requirement is for the spell to be on the class spell list, you do not actually to be of a level to cast the spell (or even able to cast spells in the case of paladins, rangers and the like) nor do you require a stat high enough to cast the spell in the wand/staff.

This is correct. A 1st level Ranger, for example, can use a Wand of Cure Light Wounds with no problem.

Your God of Knowledge,
Nethys

Liberty's Edge

Okay, does that mean that a sorcerer that has a traditionally nonarcane spell on their spell list (for example a Celestial bloodline Sorcerer), can use wands with those spells. (for example, bless)?

A related question. If a Celestial (or other) bloodline Sorcerer has access to spells that are normally on divine spellcaster lists, are the spells treated as arcane or divine?


Most RODS are also melee weapons, as club or light mace. RODS can be used by everyone, but that has been covered.

WANDS & STAVES can be used by ANYONE with a high enough USE MAGIC DEVICE skill, but if you have the spell on your spell list, you do not require a USE MAGIC DEVICE skill check. (Ex: A 1st level Paladin, who can't even cast spells, could use a Wand of Cure Serious because it is on his 4th level spell list.)


stardust wrote:
Okay, does that mean that a sorcerer that has a traditionally non-arcane spell on their spell list (for example a Celestial bloodline Sorcerer), can use wands with those spells. (for example, bless)?

ABSOLUTELY YES those spells are considered ON YOUR LIST.

*Honestly if it is on the caster's list, its easier to just say YES. Why unnecessarily complicate FUN?

stardust wrote:


A related question. If a Celestial (or other) bloodline Sorcerer has access to spells that are normally on divine spell caster lists, are the spells treated as arcane or divine?

The spell would be cast as the same FORM as the the caster, arcane or divine.

Side Note: A Celestial Sorcerer with CRAFT WAND would create an ARCANE "Bless" Wand.

*Other Side Note: A Bard, by the rules, cannot technically use a regular DIVINE wand or scroll of Cure Light Wounds, despite it being on his list as he is an ARCANE caster. **See statement above.


stardust wrote:

Okay, does that mean that a sorcerer that has a traditionally nonarcane spell on their spell list (for example a Celestial bloodline Sorcerer), can use wands with those spells. (for example, bless)?

A related question. If a Celestial (or other) bloodline Sorcerer has access to spells that are normally on divine spellcaster lists, are the spells treated as arcane or divine?

A Sorcerer with spells available to them from other class' spell lists still treat them as arcane spells. EDIT: And, as already explained, they are now on your class spell list, so you can use items with those spells in them.

Liberty's Edge

Daniel Moyer wrote:
stardust wrote:
Okay, does that mean that a sorcerer that has a traditionally non-arcane spell on their spell list (for example a Celestial bloodline Sorcerer), can use wands with those spells. (for example, bless)?

ABSOLUTELY YES those spells are considered ON YOUR LIST.

*Honestly if it is on the caster's list, its easier to just say YES. Why unnecessarily complicate FUN?

stardust wrote:


A related question. If a Celestial (or other) bloodline Sorcerer has access to spells that are normally on divine spell caster lists, are the spells treated as arcane or divine?

The spell would be cast as the same FORM as the the caster, arcane or divine.

Side Note: A Celestial Sorcerer with CRAFT WAND would create an ARCANE "Bless" Wand.

*Other Side Note: A Bard, by the rules, cannot technically use a regular DIVINE wand or scroll of Cure Light Wounds, despite it being on his list as he is an ARCANE caster. **See statement above.

Okay, so if the celestial bloodline sorcerer found a divine wand of bless (i.e., a wand created by a divine spellcaster), she wouldn't be able to use it?

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

stardust wrote:
Okay, so if the celestial bloodline sorcerer found a divine wand of bless (i.e., a wand created by a divine spellcaster), she wouldn't be able to use it?

This situation came up in my game where the party found a wand of dispel magic that had been created by a cleric, and we had to determine if the wizard in the party would be able to use it. Turns out there is no distinction between "arcane" and "divine" in the creation or use of a wand; the only requirement is that the spell be on the user's spell list. Unless the item itself specifies that it can only be used by one or the other, that sorcerer would be just fine.


stardust wrote:
Okay, so if the celestial bloodline sorcerer found a divine wand of bless (i.e., a wand created by a divine spellcaster), she wouldn't be able to use it?

Honestly, I wish I hadn't posted that at all, I knew it was going to be the one thing people would focus on, out of the ENTIRE post. Go with what Mattrex said and as I said, DON'T OVER COMPLICATE FUN. You're Bards and Celestial Sorcerers in the world will be thankful.

On Spell List = Yes
Use Magic Device(skill check) = Yes


So a high UMD can obviously use a staff, but what about recharging? Is there a way to emulate that piece with a scroll of the right type and a staff to add another charge to the item?

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Daniel Moyer wrote:
*Other Side Note: A Bard, by the rules, cannot technically use a regular DIVINE wand or scroll of Cure Light Wounds, despite it being on his list as he is an ARCANE caster. **See statement above.

Where is this rule? I can't find it under Magic Items or Bards.


delabarre wrote:
Daniel Moyer wrote:
*Other Side Note: A Bard, by the rules, cannot technically use a regular DIVINE wand or scroll of Cure Light Wounds, despite it being on his list as he is an ARCANE caster. **See statement above.
Where is this rule? I can't find it under Magic Items or Bards.

Only scrolls (being the only, current, spell completion item type) have the requirement for spell type (arcane or divine) - no other items have that requirement that I am aware of.

So, wands, staves and any other related items merely require that the spell be on your spell list.

PRPG page 458: "Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell." However, you do have to determine what spell(s) is (are) in the item first, or trust to a blind UMD activation.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Turin the Mad wrote:
Only scrolls (being the only, current, spell completion item type) have the requirement for spell type (arcane or divine) - no other items have that requirement that I am aware of.

PRPG p. 221: "Only characters who have the spell (in its divine form [emphasis mine]) on their class spell list can cast a divine spell from a scroll."

So, no love for bards or celestial sorcerers with clerical scrolls.

But wands and staves are good to go!

Liberty's Edge

According to the PF core rulebook regarding scrolls, in order to cast a scroll the spell must be: of the correct type (arcane or divine), and on the users class spell list, and the user must have the requisite ability score. p.490

The way I read that is that if a detect magic scroll was created by a cleric, a wizard who has that spell on his/her class list, still could not cast it, because it is a divine scroll.

Wands and spell trigger activation do not specify type, just that the item can be used by anyone whose class can cast that spell. It does say that activating a spell trigger item is simpler than activating a spell completion item, though.

However it does also say that a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know and a special word is needed. p.458

shrug

I'm not sure exaclty how to interpret that.

Liberty's Edge

On further research:

In the Rules of the Game: Using Magic Items part 2 article, it does clarify this for 3.5E. It specifically states that it does not matter if the item is arcane or divine.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Dark Minstrel wrote:
I'm not sure exaclty how to interpret that.

You interpret it as written.

P. 496 (Wands) outsources the activation rules to the standard rules for spell trigger items (p. 458, Using Items), except for adding the stipulation that the wand must be pointed.

P. 458 does not include a rule barring arcane spell trigger item use from divine casters or vice versa. Absent this explicit rule (as is found on p. 490 for scrolls), there is no such rule.

Ergo, anyone can use a wand, and if you have the stored spell on any spell list, you may do so without rolling UMD.

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