Glossary Invisibility table


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

Most of the RPG is looking consistent and very well done. I've found very few holes that I'd have a problem with. One thing did stick out however: In the Glossary, there is a discussion about Invisibility.

The discussion talks about both noticing that an invisible creature is there and pinpointing their location.

The table's progression of modifiers doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, and I'm not sure if it is meant to notice that an invisible creature is there, or to pinpoint their location (I'm tending towards pinpoint, since talking would make it very easy to notice someone...).

In any case, the modifiers become more and more negative as a creature is moving faster, then become REALLY negative the moment the creature stops. Then there is a Steath Check +20 for using Stealth, etc. Trying to make heads or tails of this table, I don't feel that it makes its purpose clear. The heading is "Perception" - is this a modifier to the DC, or the penalty to the check? Do any of these circumstances stack? Are some numbers negative when they should be positive, etc.

Any amount of clarification would be appreciated, along with some examples. Thanks!


I thought that was a little confusing as well. In the actual descriptions, it simply states that if you are standing still you get a +20 to your stealth rolls, and if you are moving, you get a +10 to your stealth rolls while invisible.

The table seems to make this more confusing than the description does.

Liberty's Edge

Okay, how I understand it is this.

An invisible creature has a base perception DC of 20 to be noticed and 40 to be pinpointed.

If the invisible creature is in combat or speaking, it can be noticed automatically, and pinpointed with a DC of 20.

If the invisible creature is moving at half speed, it can be noticed with a DC of 15 and pinpointed with a DC of 35.

If the invisible creature is moving at full speed, it can be noticed with a DC of 10 and pinpointed with a DC of 30.

If the invisible creature is running or charging, it can be noticed automatically and pinpointed with a DC of 20.

If the invisible creature is not moving but engaged in some noisy activity, it can be noticed and pinpointed automatically. So for example an invisible barbarian trying to break through a door. (Still gets total concealment)

If the invisible creature is using stealth, an gets a stealth check of 14 (for example), it can be noticed with a DC of 34, and pinpointed with a DC of 54. (I don't think they intended that extra +20 in the chart).

If the invisible creature is 60 feet away, and not doing anything at all, it can be noticed with a DC of 26, or pinpointed with a DC of 46.

If the invisible creature is behind a door, but otherwise acting normal, it can be noticed with a DC of 25, and pinpointed with a DC of 45.

If the invisible creature is behind a stone wall, but otherwise acting normal, it can be noticed with a DC of 35, and pinpointed with a DC of 55.

EDIT: The only thing I don't get about this is the stealth thing, but maybe it's referring to things that are invisible all the time (like ghosts).

Grand Lodge

stardust wrote:

Okay, how I understand it is this.

An invisible creature has a base perception DC of 20 to be noticed and 40 to be pinpointed.

If the invisible creature is in combat or speaking, it can be noticed automatically, and pinpointed with a DC of 20.

If the invisible creature is moving at half speed, it can be noticed with a DC of 15 and pinpointed with a DC of 35.

If the invisible creature is moving at full speed, it can be noticed with a DC of 10 and pinpointed with a DC of 30.

If the invisible creature is running or charging, it can be noticed automatically and pinpointed with a DC of 20.

If the invisible creature is not moving but engaged in some noisy activity, it can be noticed and pinpointed automatically. So for example an invisible barbarian trying to break through a door. (Still gets total concealment)

If the invisible creature is using stealth, an gets a stealth check of 14 (for example), it can be noticed with a DC of 34, and pinpointed with a DC of 54. (I don't think they intended that extra +20 in the chart).

If the invisible creature is 60 feet away, and not doing anything at all, it can be noticed with a DC of 26, or pinpointed with a DC of 46.

If the invisible creature is behind a door, but otherwise acting normal, it can be noticed with a DC of 25, and pinpointed with a DC of 45.

If the invisible creature is behind a stone wall, but otherwise acting normal, it can be noticed with a DC of 35, and pinpointed with a DC of 55.

EDIT: The only thing I don't get about this is the stealth thing, but maybe it's referring to things that are invisible all the time (like ghosts).

Pretty much how I see it. But that Stealth check is even higher. Base DC 40 to pinpoint, plus Stealth check plus 20. so a stealth roll of 14 adds 34 to a base DC of 40, so to PINPOINT that stealthy rogue you need to get a Perception (DC 74), then 50% miss chance!.

Liberty's Edge

Krome wrote:
stardust wrote:

Okay, how I understand it is this.

An invisible creature has a base perception DC of 20 to be noticed and 40 to be pinpointed.

If the invisible creature is in combat or speaking, it can be noticed automatically, and pinpointed with a DC of 20.

If the invisible creature is moving at half speed, it can be noticed with a DC of 15 and pinpointed with a DC of 35.

If the invisible creature is moving at full speed, it can be noticed with a DC of 10 and pinpointed with a DC of 30.

If the invisible creature is running or charging, it can be noticed automatically and pinpointed with a DC of 20.

If the invisible creature is not moving but engaged in some noisy activity, it can be noticed and pinpointed automatically. So for example an invisible barbarian trying to break through a door. (Still gets total concealment)

If the invisible creature is using stealth, an gets a stealth check of 14 (for example), it can be noticed with a DC of 34, and pinpointed with a DC of 54. (I don't think they intended that extra +20 in the chart).

If the invisible creature is 60 feet away, and not doing anything at all, it can be noticed with a DC of 26, or pinpointed with a DC of 46.

If the invisible creature is behind a door, but otherwise acting normal, it can be noticed with a DC of 25, and pinpointed with a DC of 45.

If the invisible creature is behind a stone wall, but otherwise acting normal, it can be noticed with a DC of 35, and pinpointed with a DC of 55.

EDIT: The only thing I don't get about this is the stealth thing, but maybe it's referring to things that are invisible all the time (like ghosts).

Pretty much how I see it. But that Stealth check is even higher. Base DC 40 to pinpoint, plus Stealth check plus 20. so a stealth roll of 14 adds 34 to a base DC of 40, so to PINPOINT that stealthy rogue you need to get a Perception (DC 74), then 50% miss chance!.

That seems like overkill to me, and it doesn't go with the perception skill, that says a creature's invisibility makes the perception DC +20. not +40 or +60 to pinpoint. I think they accidentally repeated the Stealth +20 thing on the invisibility chart, and that's way too much.

An invisible rogue making a Stealth 14 check, 30 feet away and moving at half speed, would have a notice DC of 32, and a pinpoint DC of 52. I think if we added an extra 20, that would make it impossible to even notice them (which is a little too nice for rogues. There needs to be at least some chance that a guard will hear or notice something unusual (a breath, a footstep, a heartbeat).

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