Question to developers about the Prestige Classes featured in Pathfinder.


Rules Questions


Yo Developer Dudes and Dudettes. I'm curious as to why you didn't include some of the other Prestige Classes from the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide? Most notably missing seems to be the Archmage Blackguard, and Hierophant. I'm curious as to why you guys decided not to include them? Planning on revising them later? Do tell as inquiring minds want to know. ^_^


Berselius wrote:
Yo Developer Dudes and Dudettes. I'm curious as to why you didn't include some of the other Prestige Classes from the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide? Most notably missing seems to be the Archmage Blackguard, and Hierophant. I'm curious as to why you guys decided not to include them? Planning on revising them later? Do tell as inquiring minds want to know. ^_^

I'll tackle some of this. 1 was space issue. Another was Archmage and Hierophant are titles and should nor just be PRC, any high level wizard has the right to call himself an archmage.

And the blackgaurd I believe they have plans for full 20 level class for him


Berselius wrote:
Yo Developer Dudes and Dudettes. I'm curious as to why you didn't include some of the other Prestige Classes from the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide? Most notably missing seems to be the Archmage Blackguard, and Hierophant. I'm curious as to why you guys decided not to include them? Planning on revising them later? Do tell as inquiring minds want to know. ^_^

It was my understanding that the Hierophant and Archmage were simply prestige classes that made you a "SUPER CLERIC" or "SUPER MAGE." All of the included prestige classes allow you to accomplish a specific goal that isn't available by core rules and provides a unique path for your character, rather than just buffing the crap out of your already acquired abilities.

Also, yeah, I believe Jason stated that Blackguard would be a base class.


I tried to play a Mystic Theurge in our Beta campaign but I had to give it up. It is just far too underpowered. With spell DCs the way they are, I couldn't effect anything being 2 full spell levels behind the curve. A reasonable house rule we came up with was to divide the spell points that a single class caster would normally have between the two caster classes. That makes the class competitive. But it's just simply not competitive as written.


Fatman Feedbag wrote:
I tried to play a Mystic Theurge in our Beta campaign but I had to give it up. It is just far too underpowered. With spell DCs the way they are, I couldn't effect anything being 2 full spell levels behind the curve. A reasonable house rule we came up with was to divide the spell points that a single class caster would normally have between the two caster classes. That makes the class competitive. But it's just simply not competitive as written.

Mystic Theurge is one of those classes that's impossible to balance due to player's perceptions on the class. It's written as "two casting classes at the same time" which makes people shout "broken!" But you have to divine your casting stat between the two, suffer a 3 level lag on spell progression, and leave with only one class after the 10 levels. Mystic Theurges aren't offensive casters- as you stated, the DCs are usually low due to level lag and the fact that you've now got 3 stats to worry about (Wisdom, Intelligence/Charisma, Constitution). Mystic Theurges are the ~ultimate~ utility casters. They have the right spell for every situation, and can out-buff/heal any caster, hands down. They just don't have striking power, and that's what a lot of people look for when they look at casters.


I'm doing a mystic theurge (type... slight alteration, I don't get the combine spell stuff, but my animal companion and familiar combine and stack as a druid and sorcerer), and am not having problems with it, but I didn't choose spells that give a save throw in general.


Sean FitzSimon wrote:
Mystic Theurges are the ~ultimate~ utility casters. They have the right spell for every situation, and can out-buff/heal any caster, hands down. They just don't have striking power, and that's what a lot of people look for when they look at casters.

Yes it totally is. It was pretty good for that - but you have to be in a party that already has the cleric and a wizard roles filled for it to work. It's a "bonus" class - meaning that if you already have enough characters in your party to cover the bases and you have room for an extra character, this class is ok.

It can't out buff/heal the cleric because it's two spell levels behind (in fact, it can't even keep up with the damage that's coming at the party at any given level). But it shouldn't be able to given that it's splitting it's focus. But only being able to cast flaming sphere and cure moderate wounds at best at 8th level when pitted against CR 8-10 monsters is ... well... uncompetitive.


Abraham spalding wrote:
I'm doing a mystic theurge (type... slight alteration, I don't get the combine spell stuff, but my animal companion and familiar combine and stack as a druid and sorcerer), and am not having problems with it, but I didn't choose spells that give a save throw in general.

The arcane hierophant? That's what I'm playing.


Sean FitzSimon wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
I'm doing a mystic theurge (type... slight alteration, I don't get the combine spell stuff, but my animal companion and familiar combine and stack as a druid and sorcerer), and am not having problems with it, but I didn't choose spells that give a save throw in general.
The arcane hierophant? That's what I'm playing.

Yes and no, we dropped the BAB and skill points down, and knocked out all that stuff about channeling animals and plants. much more akin to the mystic theurge now.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The mystic Theurge is quite powerful as the buffer/healer/fixer. But you are correct from a pure 'rate everything a character does by damage the damage it does' the Theurge is very underpowered. However, if the rest of the party can cover the damage the Mystic Theurge can remove all other obstacles. I have DM'd for one who tripped up every clever thing I brought to the table. The key, that we noticed, was Quicken Spell. Between the feat and a couple of rod's the character was able to provide buff's, heals (at range with spectral hand) and answers for those annoying things high level critters and casters did. Then a few times when things got angry at him and brought that anger to him, he just popped away one way or another and let the rest of the party take care of it. Over all I didn't find it any more powerful than the rest of the party because he rarely did any damage what so ever. The thing he brought to the table was freeing/enhancing the other party members to bring their skills to bear.

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