The DC of spells cast from wands and scrolls


Rules Questions


What ability modifier do you use to calculate this? The minimum required of the crafter (e.g. 13 for a third level spell) or that of the person actually using the items?
Or is it that of an average spellcaster who puts all of their ability score increases into their casting ability score (e.g. NPC Wiz 1 has 15 Int, Wiz 5 has 16 for CL 5th scroll like fireball)?

I am of course only asking about scrolls purchased and not crafted by the player's themselves, which I would assume use the player's own DC for the spell.

Is there a concrete answer for this in the rulebook that I just can't find? If not I think the third of the options given above is probably the one I'll use.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
vagrant-poet wrote:

What ability modifier do you use to calculate this? The minimum required of the crafter (e.g. 13 for a third level spell) or that of the person actually using the items?

Or is it that of an average spellcaster who puts all of their ability score increases into their casting ability score (e.g. NPC Wiz 1 has 15 Int, Wiz 5 has 16 for CL 5th scroll like fireball)?

I am of course only asking about scrolls purchased and not crafted by the player's themselves, which I would assume use the player's own DC for the spell.

Is there a concrete answer for this in the rulebook that I just can't find? If not I think the third of the options given above is probably the one I'll use.

I don't think there is a rule. When computing item DCs I usually assign a flat +3 ability mod to the anonymous crafter, +4 if the item is particularly high-level.


The 3.5 rule (and there was one), was use the minimum ability score required, for ALL items created, players with 30 Int's or otherwise. Every scroll of fireball was DC 14, every wand of phantasmal killer was DC 16.

The exception was and is staves, which use the wielder's caster level, casting stat, and feats, so long as their better.

I recall a preview stating that staves have remained the same, but have not gotten to that section in the new book yet. I doubt it has changed.

Easy formula is 10 + 1.5*spellLevel (round down).


From ye book:

"Saving Throws Against Magic Item Powers
Magic items produce spells or spell-like effects. For a saving throw against a spell or spell-like effect from a magic item, the DC is 10 + the level of the spell or effect + the ability modifier of the minimum ability score needed to cast that level of spell. "

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems.html


Majuba wrote:
The 3.5 rule (and there was one), was use the minimum ability score required, for ALL items created, players with 30 Int's or otherwise. Every scroll of fireball was DC 14, every wand of phantasmal killer was DC 16.

I'm pretty sure this was for "off-the-shelf" items, and seem to recall from DMG or FAQ or somewhere that items crafted by "known persons" (in-game NPCs or PCs) would use their modifier. Can't find it quickly, though.

Magic in my world is a little more rare and so a little more personal, so maybe it's just me, though I sincerely recall reading something like this.

Of course, since you can apply Metamagic Feats you can always Heighten the DC, but this increases the price accordingly.

FWIW,

Rez

Scarab Sages

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It is the minimum ability modifier. The DCs for wands, scrolls, etc. are as follows:

1st: DC 11
2nd: DC 13
3rd: DC 14
4th: DC 16
5th: DC 17
6th: DC 19
7th: DC 20
8th: DC 22
9th: DC 23

Wands, Scrolls, and other magic items are always at this DC (unless stated otherwise), regardless of the ability score of their creator. Staves are an exception to this rule, and it is what makes them so valuable, they may use the wielder's ability score, caster level, and other modifiers to affect the saving throw DC.

Your God of Knowledge,
Nethys


Thanks for all of the help and reference, I just couldn't find it in the book.


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For those of you that like me have the book the page in question is 459, in chapter 15 under the title Saving throws against magic item powers .

There is a handy reference table in the back, which specifically has a listing for "Save throws... against magic items", I find using that reference table is very handy.

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