Okay, first shot at a quick-fix...I just deleted the Portrait print view.
Landscape Character Sheet File: PRPG_CS_v_0_7_14_1_Landscape.zip
Any luck with this one working?
Loving the landscape setup.
Been hoping for a while you might add a Ray to the weapons list for us magic users. I add it in myself of course, but would be nice to not have to with each new release.
Keep on rockin!
Loving the landscape setup.
Been hoping for a while you might add a Ray to the weapons list for us magic users. I add it in myself of course, but would be nice to not have to with each new release.
Keep on rockin!
Thanks, both for checking out the landscape format and for reminding me! I've added Ray as an option under Magical Attacks.
Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder
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Hey!
I just wanted you to know that I have been using a version of this ever since September 2009. I use it for my characters in the games I play at the Paizo office....so folks there do see your handiwork.
I'm just starting a high-level campaign with SKR, playing a noble drow inquisitor 10/assassin 3. Sort of bummed that the BETA inquisitor isn't quite finished yet. But, for the most part, this character sheet has worked really well for me. Good stuff! Thanks!
Hey!
I just wanted you to know that I have been using a version of this ever since September 2009. I use it for my characters in the games I play at the Paizo office....so folks there do see your handiwork.
I'm just starting a high-level campaign with SKR, playing a noble drow inquisitor 10/assassin 3. Sort of bummed that the BETA inquisitor isn't quite finished yet. But, for the most part, this character sheet has worked really well for me. Good stuff! Thanks!
Hey, that's cool to hear! You're in luck, too, in that finishing out the APG classes is my next big push before I cut a new version to the Pathfinder DB. I'm aiming to have all APG classes fully functional next week.
Thanks!
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The landscape sheet doesnt seem to be working right. Putting in my dwarf monk, and it is messing up all my stat scores. 25 point buy, level 4 and when I add my strength bump for 4th level, it ups my wisdom and charisma and lowers my strength and dex. Doing the exact same setup in the portrait sheet works fine.
The landscape sheet doesnt seem to be working right. Putting in my dwarf monk, and it is messing up all my stat scores. 25 point buy, level 4 and when I add my strength bump for 4th level, it ups my wisdom and charisma and lowers my strength and dex. Doing the exact same setup in the portrait sheet works fine.Hmm, I'm not seeing this. I did the following:
- Set abilities to 14 for all except Charisma (just to use the 25 points up)
- Set Race to Dwarf
- Entered 4 levels of Fighter
- Set 4th level ability bump to Strength
Str 15
Dex 14
Con 16
Int 14
Wis 16
Cha 8
Can you run through just those steps and see if it works?
Erian, great spreadsheet! My group and I have been working with your sheet for a while now. I just downloaded the newest version we were using a much older one and your new one fixed most of the issues we have seen.
Good to know, and I look forward to any other findings. With such long-term use, I would be particularly interested in your group's thoughts on the landscape versus portrait approach (with the note that the landscape in a final version would support portrait printing, but data entry would be on the "wide screen" tab)
A couple of things that I have noticed are you are able to select feats at a level in which you don't have a level choosen. Example would be if you were a 1st level fighter you can choose feats for level 2,3,4 and they won't be red as long as you qualify for them even though you haven't selected a class for level's 2,3,4.
True, I do not validate the order of feat selection at this time. This has other implications, such as the fact that you can put in 15 levels of Fighter and then put a feat in at 1st level that has a pre-req of BAB +15. In this sense, some of the slicker character creation programs have a definite edge, but of course the nearest one size-wise I know of is over 8 MB and requires macros. I've been thinking through some basic validation logic I might build in to correct this overall issue, but haven't implemented anything as yet.
Also, I don't believe the +1 modifier for crit is working from the level 20 fighter class abilities. I have a Bastard Sword wielded. 1d10 19-20 x2 and when I select all 20 levels of fighter the Bastard sword remains at x2. From what I can tell it appears that the rest of the fighter abilities come across fine.
Thanks
Jeff
I'll check on this one--I don't recall building in that logic so it's likely not even in place rather than being broken.
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The landscape sheet doesnt seem to be working right. Putting in my dwarf monk, and it is messing up all my stat scores. 25 point buy, level 4 and when I add my strength bump for 4th level, it ups my wisdom and charisma and lowers my strength and dex. Doing the exact same setup in the portrait sheet works fine.Hmm, I'm not seeing this. I did the following:After this, on the Front tab I have:
- Set abilities to 14 for all except Charisma (just to use the 25 points up)
- Set Race to Dwarf
- Entered 4 levels of Fighter
- Set 4th level ability bump to Strength
Str 15
Dex 14
Con 16
Int 14
Wis 16
Cha 8Can you run through just those steps and see if it works?
Well it worked, and then for fun I redid my dwarven monk and it is working fine now. Very odd, I tried a few times last nite and it didnt work each time, then today it works lol. Sorry about the false flag! :)
In addition, please hammer on the Monk flurry of blows a bit
Is there a way to show all interative attacks for flurry of blows? I'm playing a level 6 monk, with 16 Str, weapon focus (unarmed) and a +1 enhancement bonus on unarmed attacks, so the sheet correctly displays my attack bonus with an unarmed strike as +9. (4 BAB + 3 Str + 1 weapon focus + 1 bonus.) Though I'd like it to show the iterative attack bonuses (+9/+9/+4). Am I doing something wrong?
In addition, please hammer on the Monk flurry of blows a bitIs there a way to show all interative attacks for flurry of blows? I'm playing a level 6 monk, with 16 Str, weapon focus (unarmed) and a +1 enhancement bonus on unarmed attacks, so the sheet correctly displays my attack bonus with an unarmed strike as +9. (4 BAB + 3 Str + 1 weapon focus + 1 bonus.) Though I'd like it to show the iterative attack bonuses (+9/+9/+4). Am I doing something wrong?
Set one weapon block to wield as "primary" and another to wield as "off-hand," with "flurry of blows" set as an option for both. You'll then have all attacks for both hands.
I purposefully split this to work the same as two-weapon fighting, because sometimes a monk flurries with different weapons in each hand.
APG Class update...Cavalier is complete and Oracle is about 50% (I'm updating these two since they're already in the sheet first, then going alphabetically). I'll put out an iteration every two classes for you guys to check.
Got to use 7_14 last weekend.
1) We ran into an issue where after saving the file, all the drop downs on the Character Options tabs stopped working. I can send some of the bad files to you for testing. Re-keying into a fresh copy got rid of the problem.
2) Landscape sheet was popular, but we'd like a bit less on it so that it prints 'cleanly' without having to set it to 57%. (We like landscape sheets in general because they're more map-friendly).
3) Better documentation of how to enter a custom race and custom class would be very nice. We're doing an Iron Kingdoms campaign, and have a Gobber in the party and two cranky gun-mages. (We're going to be boosting the Gun Mages up a bit because they suck compared to Pathfinder base classes.)
4) On weapon selection on the front: Could you put a switch which selects which weapon list is being used? Having to scroll past all the natural attacks to get to the Martial weapons is annoying when building a bunch of melee characters. EG, create lists for All Martial and the various class specific ones, and have the drop down populate from that.
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Sorry if that sounds stupid, no offence intended at all, but when do you think you will have a fully working version ? At least for the basic options (player handbook)?
My players are not good at computing things, and it'd really really help me to have a reliable resource.
Sorry to have to ask, but I am really busy IRL just now, so I can't follow through your updates, even though I am sure the work is great.
Sorry if that sounds stupid, no offence intended at all, but when do you think you will have a fully working version ? At least for the basic options (player handbook)?
My players are not good at computing things, and it'd really really help me to have a reliable resource.
Sorry to have to ask, but I am really busy IRL just now, so I can't follow through your updates, even though I am sure the work is great.
Pretty much every version from 7_5 onwards is feature complete for basic PFRPG classes. The current version, linked in Erian's profile, is very complete, but needs a bit of debugging.
Got to use 7_14 last weekend.
1) We ran into an issue where after saving the file, all the drop downs on the Character Options tabs stopped working. I can send some of the bad files to you for testing. Re-keying into a fresh copy got rid of the problem.
Do send me some of those so I can check them out...
2) Landscape sheet was popular, but we'd like a bit less on it so that it prints 'cleanly' without having to set it to 57%. (We like landscape sheets in general because they're more map-friendly).
Yes, my goal on the first pass was to make sure I didn't miss anything but I'd definitely like to get it to a more legible screen-size. Do y'all have any specific suggestions on changes (and this applies to all users, of course)?
3) Better documentation of how to enter a custom race and custom class would be very nice. We're doing an Iron Kingdoms campaign, and have a Gobber in the party and two cranky gun-mages. (We're going to be boosting the Gun Mages up a bit because they suck compared to Pathfinder base classes.)
Definitely agree here.
4) On weapon selection on the front: Could you put a switch which selects which weapon list is being used? Having to scroll past all the natural attacks to get to the Martial weapons is annoying when building a bunch of melee characters. EG, create lists for All Martial and the various class specific ones, and have the drop down populate from that.
I'm hoping the Dynamic List options will help out here. I'm looking for the right balance between showing the options. A person might, for instance equip a non-proficient weapon so I don't want to auto-filter those out. However, a switch for All, Qualified, Simple, Martial, and Exotic might work.
Pretty much every version from 7_5 onwards is feature complete for basic PFRPG classes. The current version, linked in Erian's profile, is very complete, but needs a bit of debugging.Sorry if that sounds stupid, no offence intended at all, but when do you think you will have a fully working version ? At least for the basic options (player handbook)?
My players are not good at computing things, and it'd really really help me to have a reliable resource.
Sorry to have to ask, but I am really busy IRL just now, so I can't follow through your updates, even though I am sure the work is great.
As AAG notes, the answer depends on what you mean by "fully working version" since the sheet as-is is fully functional from a core PRPG perspective.
I think perhaps you mean specifically the APG classes? If that is the case, my goal is to have them all complete by next week--I was shooting for this week but hadn't anticipated my second week of recovery from surgery being worse than the first. I hope to complete the Oracle today, so you folks will at least have fully functional cavaliers and oracles to test out.
Once I've got the APG classes complete, I'll be sending an update to the Pathfinder Database as the new baseline and all test versions will build from that release.
I did some work with the newest versions and it's looking great. The flurry of blows seems to be working perfectly now. I love the Landscape version. The only issue was that with my particular printer/computer configuration, the first page printed out on two pages, with only a black line on the second page, so maybe it's just a skotch too big?
There must be an errant Page Break on that tab. I'll fix that before release.
What are other folks' thoughts on the Landscape view (esp. if you are typically a Portrait view fan)?
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Wow ! That's great.
Better than I thought. I'll give it a serious look this week end.
Should help me tremendously. Some of my players are really lousy at maths and have trouble levelling up, and keep pestering me about helping them, but I have my hands full just with preparing the scenarii for the campaign.
Thanks a lot again.
WAs a bit difficult for me at first, but now that I'm into it ...
I just noticed the Shield bonus is not updating properly when I select any kind of shield on the front page.
For the record, I am using Excel 2003. Should I upgrade to 2007 ?
It should work regardless of version. My guess is that the Shield? selector directly beneath the overall AC bonus is set to No. This switch was present so the sheet could show a shield being carried by the character but not wielded. Since I'm able to move the shield block to the Front tab with the landscape view, I'll likely move the Shield? selector to be in that block.
And I'm putting the finishing touches on the Oracle now...
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Erian--
To your question about Portrait V Landscape, as someone who prefers Portrait (typically) I have to say I'm quite impressed with the new Landscape layout, and some of my players have switched to it.
However, I still prefer the Portrait layout and the location of the various boxes (but maybe I've just gotten used to them since I've used your sheet in Portrait since it came out).
Off Topic: Is there/will there be a "Gestalt" option or way to implement it? I have one campaign I run with only 3 PCs, so I've allowed the players to use the Gestalt rules from 3.5e, in the HeroForge excel sheets it can be done, but I've not messed around with your sheets yet to try to import that functionality. If not, no big deal.
Btw, sorry to hear about your surgery woes, hope it all turns out well and as painlessly as possible.
Thanks again for your continued work and I look forward to the addition of the APG classes. ;)
VtM
Erian--
To your question about Portrait V Landscape, as someone who prefers Portrait (typically) I have to say I'm quite impressed with the new Landscape layout, and some of my players have switched to it.
However, I still prefer the Portrait layout and the location of the various boxes (but maybe I've just gotten used to them since I've used your sheet in Portrait since it came out).
Off Topic: Is there/will there be a "Gestalt" option or way to implement it? I have one campaign I run with only 3 PCs, so I've allowed the players to use the Gestalt rules from 3.5e, in the HeroForge excel sheets it can be done, but I've not messed around with your sheets yet to try to import that functionality. If not, no big deal.
Btw, sorry to hear about your surgery woes, hope it all turns out well and as painlessly as possible.
Thanks again for your continued work and I look forward to the addition of the APG classes. ;)
VtM
Thanks for the kind words, and glad to here the group is liking the sheet! For your own preferences (and since you're the first that's favored the Portrait version since release) I'm wondering if you prefer it specifically for data entry/computer use, or more as a print version? Do you use the sheet at the actual game table? These are the kinds of questions that will help me nail down the best compromise for all parties...
For gestalt, right now the best way to handle it would be a Custom Class (I know, I know, it's not nearly as easy to use as I'd like either). I'll think on options that might support this, but it'll be a while down the road from getting in some other mechanics like magic item and spell effect automation.
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Erian,
Good question.
To clarify, I definitely prefer portrait for the data entry. I think it "flows" slightly better than the landscape version--but again, it's also what I've gotten accustomed to with your sheets(portrait layout).
Landscape seems to utilize the printed sheet better--meaning more compact to display needed information--but when I switched my players to the Landscape format (along with my own character sheets in the two PF campaigns I play, and my full-NPC sheets)I think we got a little "lost" looking through the new format since the old one was pretty ingrained in us by now (started using your sheet in...late summer, August maybe?).
It does help with table space for the map since room is at a premium, but some people (I think) are just used to portrait format sheets since that's the common layout for most character sheets they've used previously and in whatever other games they came from.
It's definitely not to say anyone in my group dislikes the Landscape view, I think it's just something to adjust to since the portrait view feels more "normal". As such, I went back to the Portrait sheet for my characters, 2 of my 3 players switched back, but I kept the Landscape for those NPCs requiring a full sheet.
...if that helps. ;)
I'll play around with the Custom for the gestalt players, thanks for the suggestion!
VtM
Erian--
To your question about Portrait V Landscape, as someone who prefers Portrait (typically) I have to say I'm quite impressed with the new Landscape layout, and some of my players have switched to it.
However, I still prefer the Portrait layout and the location of the various boxes (but maybe I've just gotten used to them since I've used your sheet in Portrait since it came out).
Off Topic: Is there/will there be a "Gestalt" option or way to implement it? I have one campaign I run with only 3 PCs, so I've allowed the players to use the Gestalt rules from 3.5e, in the HeroForge excel sheets it can be done, but I've not messed around with your sheets yet to try to import that functionality. If not, no big deal.
Btw, sorry to hear about your surgery woes, hope it all turns out well and as painlessly as possible.
Thanks again for your continued work and I look forward to the addition of the APG classes. ;)
VtM
Thanks for the kind words, and glad to here the group is liking the sheet! For your own preferences (and since you're the first that's favored the Portrait version since release) I'm wondering if you prefer it specifically for data entry/computer use, or more as a print version? Do you use the sheet at the actual game table? These are the kinds of questions that will help me nail down the best compromise for all parties...
For gestalt, right now the best way to handle it would be a Custom Class (I know, I know, it's not nearly as easy to use as I'd like either). I'll think on options that might support this, but it'll be a while down the road from getting in some other mechanics like magic item and spell effect automation.
Any chance you;ll be adding the Character Classes and Drawbacks from Tome of Secrets (my players love the drawbacks)
Good Feedback
Thanks! I'm continuing to tweak the landscape view, so I'll be interested to know if that helps things flow. I'll keep doing both versions for a while to see how things turn out...
Any chance you;ll be adding the Character Classes and Drawbacks from Tome of Secrets (my players love the drawbacks)
Yep, I got the Tome of Secrets when they had their $1 sale and it's on my list to add in the next round.
I prefer the data entry in the Portrait sheet, and use the Landscape sheet for playing on the table, where it's more friendly to the map and has more things visible that are useful.
I would recommend the 'rule of thirds' on the landscape sheet for print out:
Put all the combat related stuff on the left edge: What armor is worn, weapons wielded, ammo. AC and initiative and things that modify it go HERE.
Put the attributes and saving throws and 'miscellaneous stuff' in the middle. Put the saving throw boxes on the left edge of this section.
Put the skills section on the right hand section.
This way, when you're playing (and have the inevitable bit of note paper laying around) you can cover the part of the sheet that's not relevant to what you're doing right now. Cover the skills and you're good for combat. Cover the combat stuff and you're good for the skills.
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Hi !
Sorry to bother you, but I can't seem to be able to use the spells sheet whatever the caster class I take.
Everything is empty, plus I can't manually modify the spells DC or the number of spells per day :(
(I think that I'm supposed to write my spell list manually and I finally found there is a 'key ability' drop down menu, but do I have to write how many spells I have each level or is it auto-calculated ?)
Also, on the A&F tab, some of the class abilities are 'too wide' and can't be read in the text box :( (I'm a Bard 4)
Well, I've managed to drive myself to irritation by saving over my last good copy of the sheet that had the final oracle in it as I was working on some tweaks/ideas for the landscape view...
In order to not keep folks waiting, I've uploaded the "half-baked" version for some review and comments since the cavalier should be fully functional and the oracle is simply lacking automation/updates in the mysteries (admittedly a big piece of that class).
I'm shooting for the design goals AAG laid out for going with thirds. My goal here is to create a sheet that is useful for data entry/game use at the table from a laptop. This one can display at near-100% size and covers almost all of the information on the previous landscape view. It seems a bit "busy" right now, however, and may need more white space to make things more legible.
Landscape Character Sheet File: PRPG_CS_L_v_0_7_15_1.zip
Hi !
Sorry to bother you, but I can't seem to be able to use the spells sheet whatever the caster class I take.
Everything is empty, plus I can't manually modify the spells DC or the number of spells per day :(
(I think that I'm supposed to write my spell list manually and I finally found there is a 'key ability' drop down menu, but do I have to write how many spells I have each level or is it auto-calculated ?)
Also, on the A&F tab, some of the class abilities are 'too wide' and can't be read in the text box :( (I'm a Bard 4)
The majority of the spell sheet is not automated, i.e. it will not auto-populate spells based on class selection and such. Some fields, like the DC, are Protected so the formulas don't get overwritten, but you should definitely be able to modify Spells Per Day, as that is an open field. The Abilities and Feats tab will calculate your spells known/spells per day. For that text not displaying, what application and OS are you using? I've had another user report this in the past, but we could never replicate the issues and so I couldn't find a resolution.
I like the layout of the new landscape page.
I'll have to print it out and try it at the table to see how it works in play, but it has the bulk of what I'm looking for organized nicely. On the screen, it looks pretty busy.
I think the busy look has more to do with your use of black fills and lines to offset things than the amount of text there. Consider using the following color coding:
Black background with white text for major dividers.
Dark gray background with white text for mid-level dividers
Light gray background with black text for low level dividers.
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The majority of the spell sheet is not automated, i.e. it will not auto-populate spells based on class selection and such.
Ok. Got bad habits using Heroforge ^^
For that text not displaying, what application and OS are you using?
Office 2003 on WinXP64.
It does display, but the right part is truncated :(*Edit* I may have trouble with my ftp, so just wait until it works :p
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I like the "idea" of sectioning in the new landscape format but to be honest, I like the first attempt better.
I like the longer weapon blocks in first vs what seems crammed-in-to-tight-a-space feel the other has.
My eyes naturaly go top left for Character names, ability, ect... and then down and to right for juicy stat blocks and fun.
I am a more profile guy for the character sheet but I must admit I'm liking the landscape form more and more.
My 2 scents would be to keep it closer to the first itteration than the new one.
Great stuff man, truly good work. I can't wait for all new classes to be in. Then of course Gencon will arrive and have changed/tweeked everything again.
I have finally recovered from my overwrite debacle, so here is the Oracle with full automation:
Landscape Character Sheet File: PRPG_CS_L_v_0_7_15_2.zip
Obviously any feedback on the Oracle and Cavalier will be appreciated as I move on to the other classes (looking to catch back up and knock out both Alchemist and Inquisitor today).
This sheet also incorporates the suggestions AAG had for the Landscape view, and I'm definitely listening to all feedback as this evolves.
For the portrait fans, don't worry--I haven't abandoned that view yet. Once I get the APG classes nailed down, I'll do a final version for both landscape and portrait to post to the Pathfinder DB. I figure that's the best way to get broad feedback on the two versions. After that, I'll tally up the likes vs. dislikes and maintain one version going forward.
Office 2003 on WinXP64.
It does display, but the right part is truncated :(** spoiler omitted **
*Edit* I may have trouble with my ftp, so just wait until it works :p
I'm at a loss on this one--as before, can anybody else using Office 2003 confirm this problem? I've been unsuccessful in figuring out a fix since I can't seem to duplicate the issue...
Just as a word of advice, Erian:
Doing page layout in Excel is like drawing blueprints with rulers made out of Jell-O. Trust me, I've done it. :)
You are often better going with a smaller font and MORE white space than a larger font and less white space for legibility.
You should figure out what the 'read priority' is for the sheet (I like what you've got) and use differences in shading for hinting and organization. Subtle changes in color can be quite profound in making things stand out.
For example, making tables with light gray - 25% - fills, black text, and white borders, can be MUCH easier on the eyes than the traditional black border around white cells with black text, because the black-white-black gives no place for the eyes to 'rest' while it tries to guide them to the text (with the borders) sitting at the same intensity level.
What happens if you get rid of all the internal borders on the weapon groupings? (Each weapon get a border, but all the internal cell borders go away.)
Hmm, I took another shot with one of the weapon blocks to see if I'm understanding better what you're saying, AAG. Also, feel free to slice-and-dice the layout/format in a sample copy and shoot it back to me if I'm still not quite on to what you mean.
I didn't hit my mark for getting the Alchemist done, but I did complete the Inquisitor. In the process I realized I hadn't put the Teamwork feats in place that the Cavalier would need, so you'll now find those in the sheet as well.
Landscape Character Sheet File: PRPG_CS_L_v_0_7_15_3.zip
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I must say I do like this 3rd version better than second.
I will say that I would like it more if the "Center" portion of layout would be on the Left and the page Built from left to right.
Its how the people most read. Left to right and top of page down. Thats just my point of view but I gotta say its coming along great.
Erian-
Just tried this sheet...
Weird effect with the Point Buy stuff. Out of the box, every entry or selection you make in the Point Buy section results in a 'No Points Left' messsage. Only by setting all abilities to 7 was I able to reset the counter so that I could make entries.
Maybe the form is in an odd state?
Thanks. Love the sheet!
-Pel
Hmm, I took another shot with one of the weapon blocks to see if I'm understanding better what you're saying, AAG. Also, feel free to slice-and-dice the layout/format in a sample copy and shoot it back to me if I'm still not quite on to what you mean.
I didn't hit my mark for getting the Alchemist done, but I did complete the Inquisitor. In the process I realized I hadn't put the Teamwork feats in place that the Cavalier would need, so you'll now find those in the sheet as well.
Landscape Character Sheet File: PRPG_CS_L_v_0_7_15_3.zip
I will say that I would like it more if the "Center" portion of layout would be on the Left and the page Built from left to right.Its how the people most read. Left to right and top of page down. Thats just my point of view but I gotta say its coming along great.
I'm looking at the functionalist perspective on this - and there are really three functions of a character sheet in this game:
Combat Stats
Non-Combat Stats
Dossier Information.
I think that some method of highlighting (and Erian and I are working on that) will get rid of the "But the name! It's NOT top left! It's WRONG!" complaints. :)
In reality, you don't read a character sheet like you read the page of a book; you read it like a map, or you read it like a graphical diagram. Things need to be easily recognized and found, and their logical grouping needs to be spotted before you focus in enough to read.
I'm just trying to cure Erian of his "Everything MUST have a black border around it, or the words will ESCAPE!" habit. :)
I must say I do like this 3rd version better than second.
I will say that I would like it more if the "Center" portion of layout would be on the Left and the page Built from left to right.
Its how the people most read. Left to right and top of page down. Thats just my point of view but I gotta say its coming along great.
Thanks for the feedback. Note that one of my design goals with the sheets is to keep them as modular as possible--you can, for instance, select columns A through AM and cut-paste it at column CA. Everything will move without breaking the sheet. The major blocks (e.g. General Combat) are also self-contained so you can move them around.
Now, with that said I'm definitely not set on what the final columns will contain, so do keep poking at the sheet and providing comments. The current arrangement is based on AAG's concept of being able to cover either the left or right column when not in use to maximize table space (see his post). So far my tests for this show it is actually pretty efficient, but I want to keep hearing from folks on this since the "look and feel" of a sheet is often the first (and possibly last!) thing people judge it on for whether or not they'll even try it out...
Erian-
Just tried this sheet...
Weird effect with the Point Buy stuff. Out of the box, every entry or selection you make in the Point Buy section results in a 'No Points Left' messsage. Only by setting all abilities to 7 was I able to reset the counter so that I could make entries.
Maybe the form is in an odd state?
Thanks. Love the sheet!
-Pel
I am not seeing this error with v.0.7.15.3, although I did notice that I left my BETA Oracle test data in place (so Wisdom has a 16 instead of the default 10). If I change Wisdom to 10, then it shows 15 points left. Can you retry this from a clean copy? Can anyone else confirm any issues with this?
I'm looking at the functionalist perspective on this - and there are really three functions of a character sheet in this game:
Combat Stats
Non-Combat Stats
Dossier Information.I think that some method of highlighting (and Erian and I are working on that) will get rid of the "But the name! It's NOT top left! It's WRONG!" complaints. :)
In reality, you don't read a character sheet like you read the page of a book; you read it like a map, or you read it like a graphical diagram. Things need to be easily recognized and found, and their logical grouping needs to be spotted before you focus in enough to read.
I'm just trying to cure Erian of his "Everything MUST have a black border around it, or the words will ESCAPE!" habit. :)
It's true, they will escape! You've obviously never had errant words running all over your character sheet, knocking over your mountain dew and stealing dice...
;^)
In truth, the original state of the sheet is based on having it appear as close to a "standard" character sheet as possible, as I've found most long-time gamers are more comfortable with that view. Now, the logic will probably still hold true when I put a portrait "print" tab in the landscape file. But for the landscape view I do believe revisiting the design in order to better maximize space and ease use in play is something we need to consider. In my next increment (with the alchemist in place...) I'm going to have the information in various formats for folks to consider. As noted above, do please keep pounding on this, though. I get my first shot at game use for the landscape version this weekend as I ramp up my Legacy of Fire campaign, so I'll have feedback from my home game folks as well...
Just because the standard character sheet hewed to a design aesthetic from 3.0/3.5, which carried over from 2.0, which carried over from 1.0, doesn't mean it's the right decision for usability.
For example, I really like your skill organization system much better than the Pathfinder one.
The shorter skill list means that you can get away with using the landscape view and not have two columns of skills.
Oh, I agree we don't have to "do what we've always done because that's the way it's always been" but I'm definitely mindful of the impacts shifting too far away from expectations (at least too fast...) can have on new folks trying out the sheet. If they take one look and never give it a shot, that's a failure--I know I've certainly done this before on some sheets that may actually have been very useful/powerful.
Now, with that said I think the landscape work is coming along nicely, and I've been fiddling today with a mix of your suggestions and some tweaks based on how the printed version looks. This one "feels" right on my eyes both on screen and printed, so I'm eager to see how it goes over.
Landscape Character Sheet File: PRPG_CS_L_v_0_7_15_4.zip
In addition to the formatting changes, the alchemist is now fully functional. As I had to build a list of discoveries for selection, I also implemented the dynamic list feature as a test run. It worked nicely and so I've got the rogue talents and rage powers rebuilt to use this as well. I think folks will find the new lists much nicer. My next shot is going to be toward feats and weapons, providing lists for qualified only vs. all depending on a selector. I believe this will also let me dynamically build the feat groups for combat, teamwork, metamagic, etc.
And of course I'm chugging away to get the summoner and witch in place, then the APG Beta will be done! The summoner may drive me toward fixing the Companion tab as well, since that's such a major part of the class. This will obviously benefit the characters with animal companions/familiars as well.
I am not seeing this error with v.0.7.15.3, although I did notice that I left my BETA Oracle test data in place (so Wisdom has a 16 instead of the default 10). If I change Wisdom to 10, then it shows 15 points left. Can you retry this from a clean copy? Can anyone else confirm any issues with this?
Ok. Maybe it was because I did not have my coffee first thing this morning, but it is working just fine now.
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In addition to the formatting changes, the alchemist is now fully functional. As I had to build a list of discoveries for selection, I also implemented the dynamic list feature as a test run. It worked nicely and so I've got the rogue talents and rage powers rebuilt to use this as well. I think folks will find the new lists much nicer. My next shot is going to be toward feats and weapons, providing lists for qualified only vs. all depending on a selector. I believe this will also let me dynamically build the feat groups for combat, teamwork, metamagic, etc.
Awesome to see the alchemist in there finally. Playing an alchemist 2/rogue 1 in my game now and loving to be able to use this sheet for him. Quick question I have after a quick glance over, is there anything planned for the "spells & effects" section for mutagens? My plan was to make two version of the sheet, with and without mutagens, and have both printed out for ease of access.
Also, adding the bombs causes the sheet to go wonky, see a bunch of "#"s in a lot of skill boxes, speed, AC, CMD, and various boxes of the weapon section that I used for the bomb. Changing it to a normal weapon causes the values to go back to normal. I can get a screen shot if that would help. Ill try making a new sheet and see if I can reproduce the error.
*edit* quick check on the same sheet has the error for anything listed under "magical attacks" Going to try a fresh sheet now to see if I can reproduce these errors.
Ok. Maybe it was because I did not have my coffee first thing this morning, but it is working just fine now.
Good to hear...keeping that java flowing, man! I recommend Kenya AA.
Awesome to see the alchemist in there finally. Playing an alchemist 2/rogue 1 in my game now and loving to be able to use this sheet for him. Quick question I have after a quick glance over, is there anything planned for the "spells & effects" section for mutagens? My plan was to make two version of the sheet, with and without mutagens, and have both printed out for ease of access.
Yes indeed, my intention is to have all spells and class abilities as selections in the Spells and Effects section. So, you can apply a mutagen, rage, be hasted, and be enlarged all at the same time. Once I get the APG classes done and post the next major release, getting these spells/effects and the conditions all in tables and functional is on my to-do list. I can build the basic structure of how this will work prior to that release for folks that want to fiddle around and add things before I get it built.
Also, adding the bombs causes the sheet to go wonky, see a bunch of "#"s in a lot of skill boxes, speed, AC, CMD, and various boxes of the weapon section that I used for the bomb. Changing it to a normal weapon causes the values to go back to normal. I can get a screen shot if that would help. Ill try making a new sheet and see if I can reproduce the error.
*edit* quick check on the same sheet has the error for anything listed under "magical attacks" Going to try a fresh sheet now to see if I can reproduce these errors.
Aw nuts, it's because those "items" don't have the weight properly listed as 0. This messes up encumbrance, which flows to armor check penalty, which flows to AC/skills/etc. Put a weight of 0 on those and it should work fine. I also noticed I need to set the type to Ranged rather than Light.
I will probably change some of the colors a bit, but you got my gist.
I recommend that the 'print' version of the Portrait page be as Old School as you like. Black lines hemming in all the words. Heck, if you can get Excel to look like 9 pin dot matrix outputs, even better. :)
Actually...
I have a suggestion.
Once you've got the layout finalized, I'll tweak it in Excel 2007 to use the color palette that's available (much more conducive to subtlety than what's in 2003 and earlier), and will cut and paste the layout from that page only onto an *.xlsx sheet.
Someone can then select from the *xlsx sheet and copy, then go back to your latest version and select the landscape page, and choose "Paste Special" to get the subtler hues in place, if they're using Excel 2007 or later.
This could be distributed in the zip file if you wish.
Actually...
I have a suggestion.
Once you've got the layout finalized, I'll tweak it in Excel 2007 to use the color palette that's available (much more conducive to subtlety than what's in 2003 and earlier), and will cut and paste the layout from that page only onto an *.xlsx sheet.
Someone can then select from the *xlsx sheet and copy, then go back to your latest version and select the landscape page, and choose "Paste Special" to get the subtler hues in place, if they're using Excel 2007 or later.
This could be distributed in the zip file if you wish.
Sure, that'd be great. I would like to use the greater variety from 2007 onward, but don't want the baseline distributed version "guessing" at things for earlier versions or for OO.
Thanks!
Almost there...Summoner is done, although the Eidolon automation is not in place as yet. I'm going to knock out the Witch before tackling that.
Landscape Character Sheet File: PRPG_CS_L_v_0_7_15_5.zip