Channel Energy Stacking? Paladins & Clerics


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

The damage for channel energy is level based, so I was wondering if the cleric and paladin levels would stack for determining the dice used for the ability?

I assume that they don't, since they use different mechanics to activate (and Paizo is pretty good about including rules about abilities that stack).

I know the players of divine characters in my campaign will ask this for certain, so I thought I'd double check before I give them my interpretation of this.


NO, I believe they SHOULD stack.
I can't remember where exactly this is written in the rules, but Abilities granted by 2 different classes DO stack those Class Levels for purposes of that ability (i.e. Uncanny Dodge w/ Rogue & Barbarian).
Paladins DO have the Channel Energy ability, and it isn't a different mechanic for them to use,
they just ACCOUNT for it slightly differently:
Like Specialist Wizards need double the slots to cast 'opposed' Schools.

This makes a Paladin/Cleric multiclass SOMEWHAT viable, though the spell progression isn't compatable.

Grand Lodge

Quandary wrote:

NO, I believe they SHOULD stack.

I can't remember where exactly this is written in the rules, but Abilities granted by 2 different classes DO stack those Class Levels for purposes of that ability (i.e. Uncanny Dodge w/ Rogue & Barbarian).
Paladins DO have the Channel Energy ability, and it isn't a different mechanic for them to use,
they just ACCOUNT for it slightly differently:
Like Specialist Wizards need double the slots to cast 'opposed' Schools.

This makes a Paladin/Cleric multiclass SOMEWHAT viable, though the spell progression isn't compatable.

The problem is that the lay on hands mechanic has its number of uses calculated different from the cleric's channel energy. So it is a different mechanic to channel energy for paladins, as they use lay on hands charges to do it. I don't believe they should stack, for that reason.


But they ARE granted the Channel Energy class feature.
I'm not saying their USAGES are calculating as if Paladin levels were Cleric levels,
but the effect/ strength of their Channel Energy, WHICHEVER Class' "pool" they are tapping into to activate it.
Channel Energy is already equally strong for a Cleric of X level as a Paladin of X level.
"A paladin uses her [paladin] level as her effective cleric level when channeling positive energy."

I don't see how it's any different than Barb&Rogue Uncanny Dodge,
or Druid+Ranger Animal Companions (probably the most relevant example)

Grand Lodge

Quandary wrote:

But they ARE granted the Channel Energy class feature.

I'm not saying their USAGES are calculating as if Paladin levels were Cleric levels,
but the effect/ strength of their Channel Energy, WHICHEVER Class' "pool" they are tapping into to activate it.
Channel Energy is already equally strong for a Cleric of X level as a Paladin of X level.

I just don't see how it's any different than Barb&Rogue Uncanny Dodge, Druid+Ranger Animal Companions, or Specialists casting Opposed Spells @ Double Cost (still count as being able to cast X spell, i.e. for PrC or Reserve Feat like having at-will fire attack if at least 1 Fire spell is memorized)

EDIT: Gah, I am in error. It is, of course, only 3+(paladin level/4)+Cha mod+(Cha mod/2) uses per day, which isn't so bad. You still end up with more uses per day by multiclassing than you do in either single class, though, which is why I don't think it's the same thing as stacking uncanny dodge and the like, where you end up with an identical 'level' of uncanny dodge by either single-classing or multi-classing between classes that grant uncanny dodge.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Quandary wrote:
I don't see how it's any different than Barb&Rogue Uncanny Dodge, or Druid+Ranger Animal Companions (probably the most relevant example)

One difference is that in Uncanny Dodge, they specifically mention that it can stack.

The ranger's ability also fails to mention whether it stacks or not, and says that it "functions like the druid animal companion ability". Going by the literal interpretation of this, it refers to it as a separate ability (which then would not stack). (Which would then likely mean that a Paladin's mount would not stack with a ranger's animal companion, also).

I'm quite surprised that they didn't specifically say that animal companion levels stack.

If there is a rule that states somewhere that class abilities stack, then please point me to it. Otherwise, my understanding of the RAW concept, is that unless it says you can stack them, you can't.

I would like to see them stack and may house rule it anyways -- but it seems that my list of Pathfinder house rules has now tripled in size from my 3.5 house rule list.

Scarab Sages

Currently, Channel Energy functions like a multi-classing spellcaster. They do not stack. A cleric/paladin may have more uses, but it will have less dice than a pure cleric or a pure paladin. Similar to a sorcerer/wizard. More spells, lower overall spell level.

Your God of Knowledge,
Nethys

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document wrote:


When a paladin reaches 4th level, she gains the supernatural ability to channel positive energy like a cleric. Using this ability consumes two uses of her lay on hands ability. A paladin uses her level as her effective cleric level when channeling positive energy.

Essentially the effects are the same, but the number available do not stack. Track the available uses separately.

The Cleric gets 3+Cha modifier uses per day.

The Paladin can use Channel Energy up to Lay On Hands/2 per day. Every time the Paladin uses Lay On Hands, that affects the number of Channels available.

So, if a Cleric/Paladin uses Channel Energy it is important to track from which class the Channel comes from.

Now, the Channel Energy is the same as regards feats or other modifiers.

Just track the source separately and you are fine.


@Kor: Read the Druid section, it specifically mentions other classes with Animal Companions 'stacking' for determining the 'level' of the Companion. Paladins Companion uses the same rules, but with ADDITIONAL special abilities based on Paladin level.

Grand Lodge

While I appreciate the sidetrek to Animal Companions it doesn't really affect the discussion of Channel Energy.

The two can't "stack" simply because the source for the number of uses is different. IF Paladins gained the Channel Energy based upon 3+Cha modifier then sure they would stack.

However, the Paladin gets his based upon the number of Lay on Hands available. A 10th level Paladin with Cha of 16, gets 8 uses of Lay on Hands, which means 4 uses of Channel Energy. But if the Paladin uses a single Lay on Hands, that number is reduced and should be tracked separately.

The Cleric gets 3+cha regardless of level. So a Cleric 5/Paladin 10 with Charisma 16 needs to track them separately. He gets a maximum of 10 (6 from Cleric and 4 from Paladin) uses a day, but any use of Lay on Hands affects that amount available.

They should be tracked separately.

**EDIT**
Fixed math number... duh couldn't add 6+4! lol

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