Spellcraft or Knowledge(Arcana)

[toyrobots]

After going on at length telling my player how it is possible to have a Spellcraft skill dedicated to specific spell knowledge and spell identification, and Knowledge(Arcana) used for those thing specifically mentioned in the description (ancient mysteries, magic traditions, arcane symbols, constructs, dragons, magical beasts) but NOT for spell ID, he points me to the DC table for Knowledge(Arcana), which is a bunch of Spell identification DCs.

So which is it? If Knowledge(Arcana) allows for such extensive spell identification, what exactly is Spellcraft for?

[Aamaxu]

toyrobots wrote:

After going on at length telling my player how it is possible to have a Spellcraft skill dedicated to specific spell knowledge and spell identification, and Knowledge(Arcana) used for those thing specifically mentioned in the description (ancient mysteries, magic traditions, arcane symbols, constructs, dragons, magical beasts) but NOT for spell ID, he points me to the DC table for Knowledge(Arcana), which is a bunch of Spell identification DCs.

So which is it? If Knowledge(Arcana) allows for such extensive spell identification, what exactly is Spellcraft for?

Detecting magical properties. That's it I think.

[stardust]

You can use Spellcraft checks to identify spells as they are being cast, which helps for the purpose of dispelling them. Knowledge (Arcane) checks are used to identify spells that are already in effect.

Also, I would personally rule that a Knowledge (Arcane) check allows you to know about a particular spell or ritual, but that in order to perform an odd spell or ritual you have to use Spellcraft.

Spellcraft is also the main skill used in making magical items.

In other words, Spellcraft deals with the methods and modalities of transferring arcane energy while Knowledge (Arcane) is more about identifying what that arcane energy does. So for example, a Spellcraft check could be used to identify a magic item's properties, but if a wand is accidentally triggered and someone is effected by a magic effect as a result of it, a Knowledge (Arcane) check would identify what spell or magic effect it is.

[Doomed Angel]

I would venture and say that perhaps the table is wrong. All those knowledge checks look specifically to be Spellcraft Checks to me.

Then again, with a side by side comparison to the wording of Spellcraft and Knowledge Arcana (and their respective tables), I can see some subtle differences...

Edit: I take back my statement, that the table is wrong.

The PRD wrote:

Arcana:
Identify auras while using detect magic
Identify a spell effect that is in place
Identify materials manufactured by magic
Identify a spell that just targeted you
Identify the spells cast using a specific material component

Spellcraft:
Identify a spell as it is being cast
Learn a spell from a spellbook or scroll
Prepare a spell from a borrowed spellbook
Identify the properties of a magic item using detect magic
Decipher a scroll
Craft a magic item

The Detect Magic spell wrote:

3rd Round: The strength and location of each aura. If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Knowledge (arcana) skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura: DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + 1/2 caster level for a nonspell effect.) If the aura eminates from a magic item, you can attempt to identify its properties (see Spellcraft).

So Spellcraft, from what I gather, is more directed toward the technical aspects of magic, whereas K:Arcana is used for anything else. I can certainly see how the lines get blurred from time to time. Again, subtle differences, but differences nonetheless.

[Staffan Johansson]

I always saw Spellcraft as being about magic itself ("He's casting a fireball", "This wall was clearly the result of a Wall of Stone spell", "Let's see what this scroll says"), whereas Arcana was about the people, and a significant chunk of the monsters, using it ("That rune is used by the Mage's Order of Waterdeep", "That's a black dragon, it breathes acid").

I'm thinking maybe Arcana should be able to identify an item without using Detect Magic/Identify, but at a higher DC. More along the lines of "these snowflake patterns here indicate that it's a cold-based item, and the thread used shows that we have a pair of Boots of Winter" than actually looking at the magic aura.