Which god would be most likely have a tiefling paladin fighting for his / her cause?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

Silver Crusade

Besides Sarenrae. I know that's probably the most obvious choice, but I'm trying to branch out and show some gods other than ol' Dawnflower some love with my Golarion PCs.

The character is going to be for the Council of Thieves AP. I know Iomedae is going to be the easy choice simply because of the location, but I was wondering if anyone had any inspiration for other choices.

I know a sizable portion Erastil's church in Varisia had a real hate on for lycanthropes at least. That has me a bit suspicious that they would be so accepting of a tiefling(not that their approval matters compared to Erastil's, but even he's pretty "old fashioned", eh).

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Shelyn would, I think, without question. If she saw a good soul in the demonic exterior, she wouldn't hesitate to call on them.


Mikaze wrote:

Besides Sarenrae. I know that's probably the most obvious choice, but I'm trying to branch out and show some gods other than ol' Dawnflower some love with my Golarion PCs.

If god did not exist, Tiefling would have to invent him...

How about this: A new god or demi-god, known by few so far, save those Tiefling and other tormented folk who have found faith strong enough to counter their heritage and the usual mistreatment of their peers. The new god could be a Tiefling hero who endures a great series of trials and challenges to demonstrate that the powers of order and good can drive darkness and chaos from the heart of anyone who possesses free will, even one so affected as a Tiefling. Pick a name - Balcazar the Redeemed, or some such. Create a suitable series of trials which aspiring paladins and clerics might seek to emulate. Have the PC worshipers start spreading the word of a god who welcomes even the most troubled soul who has but to chose the righteous path and demonstrate their choice by thought, word and deed.

Who knows. Perhaps word of Balcazar the Redeemed might reach the ears of the Pathfinders, who would likely order an investigation to seek evidence or information about his ascension... Such a god might even inspire enough followers within Cheliax to mount a serious challenge to the realm's diabolic rulers.

Just a thought :)

Dark Archive

Erastil is the god of community and family. If a family took in (or birthed) a tiefling child, and was willing to keep that child safe and part of their community, because of Erastil's dogma that family is precious (even if the child didn't look exactly how the parent(s) might have preferred, and made the neighbors a little uncomfortable at first), that tiefling child might grow up with a deep respect for the religious teachings that led to him/her being accepted by the family and (eventually) embraced as part of the community and not 'cast out' as 'devil-tainted.'

Such a tiefling might be quite a bit 'better-adjusted' than those who grew up in more militant, less community-oriented churches, who are more likely to be on the front lines of the Mendevian campaign (such as that of Iomedae) and might regard fiend-taint as a stain or fault that the Paladin should be struggling to overcome.

Really, any of the gods (that allow Paladins) could probably be made to fit the concept. The only one that doesn't immediately leap to mind for me is Torag, and that's more a failure of imagination on my part than any unworkability in the concept.

Abadar's fixation on law above all else might result in a tiefling orphan being raised no differently than any other foundling, as a show of how literally the clergy take their duty, but the tiefling might eventually become aware of this, that he/she's not 'just another member of the congregation' but a shining example of how 'fair' his benefactors are... He/she might grow to hold them in contempt, for thinking of him/her more as a 'mission' or a symbolic gesture and not a flesh-and-blood person.

"Oh, we're totally fair and neutral. See, we even have a tiefling right here in church, given the same opportunites as any other person." [trots out token tiefling to be gawked over, earning the clergy praises for their broad-mindedness]

Lots of fun RP potential, no matter which way you go.

The Erastilian Paladin might be somewhat wide-eyed, in this first visit to the 'world beyond the village walls,' and a bit naive, repeatedly disappointed that the 'world outside' doesn't seem quite as accepting and friendly as the home and family they've left behind.

The Abadarian Paladin might seek to prove their worth, not to the clergy who raised them (since they don't even like those people), but to themselves.

The Iomedan Paladin might feel that their fiendish heritage is something that they have to fight against every day, and that every challenge is another chance to 'atone' for the 'sin' of being born different.

And Torag? Maybe the tiefling grew up working in a smithy, cloven hoof disguised as a club foot, and sooty complexion (and scent) easily explained away as a byproduct of working the forge all day. Handsome clean-limbed human knights came in and out, day after day, and glistening armor and powerful blades left in their hands. Sometimes, when the mastersmith was away, you would strap an ill-fitting breastplate onto your lanky body, and swing away with a freshly-forged blade, dreaming of being a knight, like the ones you served. A Paladin of Torag, come to visit your master (who generally kept you out of sight of 'company,' as your appearance would lead to questions that he had long since grown tired of answering), saw you playing dress up and surprised you. Startled, weapon clattering to the floor and apologizing profusely, your fears were soothed when the aging Paladin admitted that he had come to town seeking a new squire to mentor, and while your previous master was quite skilled at beating crude black ore into shining deadly steel, he had a different talent, and if you were willing to seek a new master, he would forge *you* into a knight the likes of which the world had never seen!

I knew something would come to me for Torag!

And wow, a decade of never having the slightest desire to play a tiefling, and now I've pretty much sold myself on the idea!

As if I don't have enough flipping character ideas I'll never have time to play! Stoopid brain.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

A drunken paladin of cayden Cailean! Drinking the pain of his\her demonic taint away!

Scarab Sages

I think Iomedae would make an interesting Teifling Paladin patron, you would instantly be distrusted by your entire order, only Iomedae would trust you...

Sovereign Court

Shelyn still loves her brother so she is the most obvious god who looks for redemption in the supposedly tarnished.

I can also imagine Andoletta as a Tiefling's patron.

Dark Archive

Does Nethys have paladins?


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
A drunken paladin of cayden Cailean! Drinking the pain of his\her demonic taint away!

I've been trying that for years :)


Sarenrae, Godess of Redemption.

Grand Lodge

nightflier wrote:
Does Nethys have paladins?

well, I suppose any deity COULD have a paladin. There is no alignment restriction to keep a paladin's alignment close to his deity's (like ther cleric does). So I suppose even Asmodeus and Rovagug COULD have LG paladins. I have no idea why... but not against the rules anyway.

Personally I always applied the cleric alignment restriction to the paladin, that is if a LG cleric could not follow the deity neither could a paladin. However, that is a houserule and not supported by the RAW.


nightflier wrote:
Does Nethys have paladins?

The Campaign Setting states Iomedae, Erastil, Torag, Sarenrae, Abadar, Irori, and Shelyn call paladins. It also mentions that paladins "who serve no specific god" are more commonplace than the last three dieties listed; I've always thought this indicated paladins that serve an ideal, in the same way that a cleric can.

I doubt Nethys would call paladins; the deity himself embodies the conflict of law and chaos, to the point where I can't see him giving one or the other enough attention to call champions that embody either. His followers don't really fit the term "servants" anyway, at least not in the manner that a paladin would. They're too concerned with attaining personal power, for whatever motivations drive each individual.

Even if Nethys were to call paladins, the class would have to be somewhat modified. Paladins are direct agents of their patron, but Nethys supports both chaotic and evil spellcasters as readily as those walking the path of law and goodness; he just wants magic to be used, and doesn't care how or why someone does so. Such an individual would also have difficulty gaining support from and operating within the church, as its hierarchy is based on an individual's ability to use magic; such a paladin, with his meager magic-using abilities, may easily find himself serving under a high-ranking priest of evil or chaotic alignment by the simple fact that clerics casts spells better than paladins.

Liberty's Edge

Xaaon of Xen'Drik wrote:
I think Iomedae would make an interesting Teifling Paladin patron, you would instantly be distrusted by your entire order, only Iomedae would trust you...

David Weber played with this concept in the War Gods series, along with the idea of a barbarian (society) paladin and a reluctant paladin. Lots of potential. :)


I'd like to turn this question upside down.

What god would refuse to accept a tiefling paladin fighting for their cause?

It's a rhetorical question, or rather I pose it as a thought exercise.

The way I view it, a paladin is making a life commitment to their faith. What may be most important is how sincere that commitment actually is, and that is something intimate between deity and paladin.

Back in the olden days of 1st edition, Clerics and Paladins had to donate a percentage of their earnings to the faith. I don't propose to return to those rules, because I don't think they worked as intended. However, what that tithe was supposed to represent is important for the flavor of the paladin class. The paladin has ceased to live their life for their own sake, but in service to a higher cause.

So it depends on if the deity is prepared to say "no thanks" to that deep level of commitment and service based upon appearance and lineage.

Maybe they would. That's for each GM to decide for themselves.

******

In my campaign I would say most, if not all, gods (who have paladins) could look past it. That is not to say that other NPCs and characters would understand and accept it. As GM, I would also be watching the player to make sure that the tiefling was sincere in this relationship with their God. I'm not talking about extra rigid enforcement of the Paladin's Code, but rather plain ol' fashioned sincerity on the part of the player. The Paladin Code of course would still apply, but at the heart of it the player has to understand the class.

I just can't see Gods dismissing loyal soldiers that are of the caliber to become paladins on race alone.

[EDIT: For the purposes of this post, I'm not entering into the part of the discussion of what gods can have paladins. My post assumes we're talking about gods whose alignments can support the paladin class as written. I.e. Lawful Good, Chaotic Good, and maybe Lawful Neutral]

Grand Lodge

Heaven's Agent wrote:
nightflier wrote:
Does Nethys have paladins?

The Campaign Setting states Iomedae, Erastil, Torag, Sarenrae, Abadar, Irori, and Shelyn call paladins. It also mentions that paladins "who serve no specific god" are more commonplace than the last three dieties listed; I've always thought this indicated paladins that serve an ideal, in the same way that a cleric can.

I doubt Nethys would call paladins; the deity himself embodies the conflict of law and chaos, to the point where I can't see him giving one or the other enough attention to call champions that embody either. His followers don't really fit the term "servants" anyway, at least not in the manner that a paladin would. They're too concerned with attaining personal power, for whatever motivations drive each individual.

Even if Nethys were to call paladins, the class would have to be somewhat modified. Paladins are direct agents of their patron, but Nethys supports both chaotic and evil spellcasters as readily as those walking the path of law and goodness; he just wants magic to be used, and doesn't care how or why someone does so. Such an individual would also have difficulty gaining support from and operating within the church, as its hierarchy is based on an individual's ability to use magic; such a paladin, with his meager magic-using abilities, may easily find himself serving under a high-ranking priest of evil or chaotic alignment by the simple fact that clerics casts spells better than paladins.

Or would Nethys have Paladins AND Black Guards???

Grand Lodge

Watcher wrote:


[EDIT: For the purposes of this post, I'm not entering into the part of the discussion of what gods can have paladins. My post assumes we're talking about gods whose alignments can support the paladin class as written. I.e. Lawful Good, Chaotic Good, and maybe Lawful Neutral]

Nothing says Neutral Good, Neutral and heck nothing actually says Lawful Evil CAN'T have LG paladins. I can see LE gods having paladins just to tear them down.

Why would a LG paladin worship a LE god? No idea, but nothing in the rules says that it is impossible. Not that I would allow it in my game... but just to play devil's advocate, there is no rule to say it is impossible.

Silver Crusade

Thanks folks. I just wanted some ideas to bounce around in my head, for inspiration and such.

I kind of have a creeping fondness for the idea of a Shelynite or Erastillian paladin, and Andoletta really gave me a neat visual to work with...

Set wrote:
Abadar's fixation on law above all else might result in a tiefling orphan being raised no differently than any other foundling, as a show of how literally the clergy take their duty, but the tiefling might eventually become aware of this, that he/she's not 'just another member of the congregation' but a shining example of how 'fair' his benefactors are... He/she might grow to hold them in contempt, for thinking of him/her more as a 'mission' or a symbolic gesture and not a flesh-and-blood person.

Ha, this is frighteningly close to an NPC character concept I've been knocking around for something.

Spoiler:
From the same batch of NPCs as the aasimar Calistrian prostitute. Tiefling paladin again. Taken in as a child by an orphanage run by the church of Abadar. His devout nature gets noticed, some priests have a brilliant idea of demonstrating Abadar's greatness and their own generosity by molding him into a paladin. Tiefling can't shake the feeling that he's seen as more of a trophy or experiment than a person, and the faith of Abadar had been leaving him cold for a while. Cue him converting to Sarenrae's worship before taking his final vows as a paladin.

Krome wrote:


Nothing says Neutral Good, Neutral and heck nothing actually says Lawful Evil CAN'T have LG paladins. I can see LE gods having paladins just to tear them down.

Why would a LG paladin worship a LE god? No idea, but nothing in the rules says that it is impossible. Not that I would allow it in my game... but just to play devil's advocate, there is no rule to say it is impossible.

Sure.. :)

But that's a sidetrek to my actual post. Feel free to explore, but I'm not going with.

Contributor

Watcher wrote:
Krome wrote:


Nothing says Neutral Good, Neutral and heck nothing actually says Lawful Evil CAN'T have LG paladins. I can see LE gods having paladins just to tear them down.

Why would a LG paladin worship a LE god? No idea, but nothing in the rules says that it is impossible. Not that I would allow it in my game... but just to play devil's advocate, there is no rule to say it is impossible.

Sure.. :)

But that's a sidetrek to my actual post. Feel free to explore, but I'm not going with.

All you need is an Asmodean or Lamashtan heresy--one about Asmodeus being all about the Pride of honorable service or Lamashtu being the benevolent mama of all monster-kind--and you can easily have a tiefling paladin.

The question is, is the God/dess on the other end of the line actually Asmodeus or Lamashtu, or some other god who's sensed the good soul offering the prayers and has been answering the evil god's unopened mail.

C.S. Lewis does a take on this with the Paladin of Tash in "A Horse and His Boy" who gets told by Aslan that he's actually been worshipping Aslan all these years, rather than the evil god Tash, while conversely, all the evil prayers addressed Aslan were being opened by Tash, so it all worked out.

But with Asmodeus, a tiefling paladin makes perfect sense: He's the god of pride and contracts as much as tyranny and slavery, and if the letter of the deal says that he needs to support a paladin in his utter goodness, well then, that's what the contract states.

Lamashtu is a little more difficult, but then again, she's nuts.

It might be a more difficult question in whether a good god could sponsor a blackguard.


Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:

[

All you need is an Asmodean or Lamashtan heresy--one about Asmodeus being all about the Pride of honorable service or Lamashtu being the benevolent mama of all monster-kind--and you can easily have a tiefling paladin.

The question is, is the God/dess on the other end of the line actually Asmodeus or Lamashtu, or some other god who's sensed the good soul offering the prayers and has been answering the evil god's unopened mail.

C.S. Lewis does a take on this with the Paladin of Tash in "A Horse and His Boy" who gets told by Aslan that he's actually been worshipping Aslan all these years, rather than the evil god Tash, while conversely, all the evil prayers addressed Aslan were being opened by Tash, so it all worked out.

But with Asmodeus, a tiefling paladin makes perfect sense: He's the god of pride and contracts as much as tyranny and slavery, and if the letter of the deal says that he needs to support a paladin in his utter goodness, well then, that's what the contract states.

Lamashtu is a little more difficult, but then again, she's nuts.

It might be a more difficult question in whether a good god could sponsor a blackguard.

With respect, I pretty much reject everything you and Krome have said. Not in my campaign. For me, a paladin requires a god that is no more than one alignment away from Lawful Good. No evil or chaotic neutral god need apply. I respect that you guys see it otherwise, and I understand what you're saying, but I would never consider your interpretation.

Likewise, a completely flat "no, not ever" to good gods with blackguards. :)

******

But the distinction, I would not have a good diety reject a sincere tiefling *PC* who wanted to be a paladin. That's part and parcel with not forcing an alignment based solely on the race that the player chose.

EDIT: I'll give you credit for the Narnia reference though! Aslan repeats that sentiment in The Final Battle.

Dark Archive

Watcher wrote:
I respect that you guys see it otherwise, and I understand what you're saying, but I would never consider your interpretation.

That 'interpretation' happens to be the rules. A Paladin can serve any god he/she wants, of any alignment, or none at all, so long as their own personal behavior fits within the tenets of law and good, and they limit working with evil people (which means that he can't *hang out* with his evil god, but how often does that happen?).

Does it make sense? Not on the face of it, but it could do something that should not be punished, but in fact, rewarded, inspire the creation of an unorthodox and complex character, with some really interesting role-playing opportunities. If it's not illegal or unbalancing, and the player seems interested in the challenge, it might be worth encouraging creative thinking and deep roleplay opportunities, instead of tossing another roleplay restriction / choice limitation onto what is already the most restrictive class option.

Silver Crusade

I'm not a fan of using the idea freely, but it does open up the awesome possibility of a paladin trying to redeem his own god, whatever that would mean for one's setting.

Now I'm thinking of Small Gods...

Contributor

Watcher wrote:

Likewise, a completely flat "no, not ever" to good gods with blackguards. :)

******

But the distinction, I would not have a good diety reject a sincere tiefling *PC* who wanted to be a paladin. That's part and parcel with not forcing an alignment based solely on the race that the player chose.

EDIT: I'll give you credit for the Narnia reference though! Aslan repeats that sentiment in The Final Battle.

Fair enough, but it begs the question of whether the gods can open each other's mail. If you have some goblin somewhere, who's never heard of any of the gods of good, but is good himself, and starts worshipping the benevolent aspect of Lamashtu (which she doesn't have, but he doesn't know that) would Iomedae possibly pick up the phone? And if she appeared in a vision, would it be as some human or elven chick, or as the benevolent goblin mama the good goblin conceives of Lamashtu as?

Sovereign Court

Set wrote:
Watcher wrote:
I respect that you guys see it otherwise, and I understand what you're saying, but I would never consider your interpretation.
That 'interpretation' happens to be the rules....

Did everyone read today's blog post?

Dark Archive

Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
If you have some goblin somewhere, who's never heard of any of the gods of good, but is good himself, and starts worshipping the benevolent aspect of Lamashtu (which she doesn't have, but he doesn't know that) would Iomedae possibly pick up the phone? And if she appeared in a vision, would it be as some human or elven chick, or as the benevolent goblin mama the good goblin conceives of Lamashtu as?

And now I want to commision Butterfrog to draw up a stern-looking goblin female dressed up as Iomedae, with tiny breastplate and longsword...

Not that Iomedae would be the most likely one to pick up that confused Lamashtan's call. Desna, Sarenrae or Shelyn would be more likely, and picturing any of those three appearing as goblinized versions of themselves is equally hilarious. :)

Dark Archive

GeraintElberion wrote:
Set wrote:
That 'interpretation' happens to be the rules....
Did everyone read today's blog post?

Yup. And anyone is completely free to put whatever shiny new restrictions, limitations or requirements they wish on the Paladin, or any other class.

You can even have a house rule that they all have to worship one specific god. Or only gods that are completely lawful *and* good (no Abadarites, or Shelynites, which kinda makes sense, if one is supposed to only associate with like-minded people, working with a whole *church* full of LN or NG people, and even being expected to follow their orders and respect their heirarchies, would probably get annoying and 'irreconcilable difference-y'...).

Or you can house rule that Paladins can't ever use missile weapons.

Or that they lose their Paladin powers if they ever retreat from battle, or 'fight dishonorably' by attacking something that isn't at least equal to their CR (or use a magic weapon vs. an opponent that doesn't have one, or has one that is clearly inferior / outmatched), or break the 'laws' of the local devil-worshipping slave-owners.

I've seen some of these done (most, actually) in the past, and, IMO, they didn't make the game more fun for either player or DM.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

GeraintElberion wrote:
Set wrote:
Watcher wrote:
I respect that you guys see it otherwise, and I understand what you're saying, but I would never consider your interpretation.
That 'interpretation' happens to be the rules....
Did everyone read today's blog post?

No. Why? ;P


Same here, Watcher, re the paladin and the alignment of his/her deity.

It's been a while since I've read A Horse and his Boy, but memory says it's a stretch to say that the character was a paladin of Tash. He was definitely a worshiper of Tash, but in an extremely relativized way. You have to accept the premise that you could be consciously a worshiper of one being, but to that through ignorance, one's worship was actually directed to another being. If one was a paladin, it would be like appearing to be a paladin of one (evil) god, only to be a paladin of another (good) god...which would bring us back to no paladins of evil gods. (Simplified for ease of argument. Read nothing into leaving lawfulness out of the discussion.)

Still, I'll go further and give double credit for the Narnia reference. ;)


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Aroden reborn of course...come to fulfill the prophesy of his return and restoring the gl;ory of Cheliax... and what a beautiful Epic Level campaign this would inspire


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Not that Arodens dead...he just came out on the wrong side of a deal with Asmodeus and part of the deal was Asmodeus gets 100 years free reign in Cheliax to prove the corruptibility of man...while Aroden knows that a core of the people will never turn from the light....


Set wrote:
That 'interpretation' happens to be the rules.

And that's cool. Again, I have to watch myself posting late at night because I get short tempered.

(I really threw a hand grenade in the Cleric Heavy Armor thread, fortunately it was ignored)

Let me refine my answer, I'm not comfortable with the RAW being so loose.. because frankly I don't come across many players who will play the sophisticated level of roleplay that you're alluding to.. I'm not saying my players are bad at all, but that takes a great player.

In a way, I have to watch my players for making decisions that go against roleplaying for the sake of mechanical advantage. The Paladin is a strong class, especially now in my opinion, and I feel the Code & Alignment is part of the balancing aspects of the class. EDIT: It's not completely mistrust of the players, but they're learning the value of story versus optimization.. and they're not all on the same level.

Now let me clarify, I *do* support the modification that was made in who the paladin can associate with.. That makes sense.

But evil or chaotic neutral gods with paladins? I have to house rule to disallow that. If I had an exceptional player with an exceptional storyline in mind, and I had faith that this wasn't some clever munchkinism on their part.. I would allow it. But you see, it's easier to make a special exception than it is to make it an open rule. For me anyway.

@ Kevin Murphy, you do make an interesting point regarding "who can open each other's mail", I'll have to think about that! :)


Mairkurion {tm} wrote:

Same here, Watcher, re the paladin and the alignment of his/her deity.

Thanks. I see Set's point, but there is a 'chicken and the egg' paradox in what he's saying. For me at least.

If you openly allow it, will that availability be the catalyst that creates a deep roleplaying experience? Or does there have to be a willingness to engage in that deep creative roleplaying first, in order for it to work?

I guess I'd rather have a player come to me with a special idea and ask special permission, then have to turn down a bunch of bad character concepts in hopes that one of them might be good.

Dark Archive

Watcher wrote:
And that's cool. Again, I have to watch myself posting late at night because I get short tempered.

Ditto. I re-wrote my response like five times, because it was needlessly provocative. :)

Watcher wrote:
In a way, I have to watch my players for making decisions that go against roleplaying for the sake of mechanical advantage. The Paladin is a strong class, especially now in my opinion, and I feel the Code & Alignment is part of the balancing aspects of the class. EDIT: It's not completely mistrust of the players, but they're learning the value of story versus optimization.. and they're not all on the same level.

This was very much the case back in 1st edition, when the Paladin (and, later, the Cavalier-Paladin) was a Fighter with a bunch of extra super-powers.

These days, a Paladin is pretty tough, but so is a Barbarian or Fighter, and they *don't* have this extra balancing alignment / code of conduct thing. (Back in the day, the Barbarian also had a 'hates magic and magic items' clause, ostensibly to balance out their super-powers over a Fighter, that's long gone, and yet the Paladin 'fluff' remains, despite the Paladin not being mechanically all that.)

"Watcher wrote:
If I had an exceptional player with an exceptional storyline in mind, and I had faith that this wasn't some clever munchkinism on their part.. I would allow it. But you see, it's easier to make a special exception than it is to make it an open rule. For me anyway.

That makes sense. And, despite my argumentative tone, I would also assume (if not be bothered enough to write it down as a rule) that Paladins are expected to follow good and lawful gods (not just good *or* lawful gods, since the idea of a person who could lose his Paladin status by hanging out with the wrong people actively reporting to a LN heirarchy and serving a god who could give a crap about good, such as Abadar, feels like a similar violation of the spirit of the class). Orders of Abadarian or Shelynite Paladins wouldn't exist. Individual Paladins of Abadar or Shelyn might, but they would be PCs and other 'special individuals' who are bucking the tenets of their faith and, to the heirarchy of their churches, engaging in a mild form of 'heresy.' (By promoting good over law, in the case of Abadar, or by self-imposing all sorts of excessive and unnecessary laws and codes of behavior, to the more free-spirited Shelyn.)


Ah-HA!

Dark Archive

Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
Ah-HA!

A-Ha!

Contributor

You could also have have the evil god pulling a "Green Ranger" gambit.

To describe the trope, it's a standard of anime, and not just done with the Power Rangers. I've seen it several other places as well, but it goes like this: There is at least one noble warrior (read: Paladin) with kewl magikal powerz that come from some enlightened source of good magic (as with any paladin). The Powerz of Eeeevil see this, and rather than try to corrupt the paladin, look around and either go after the paladin's nebbishy fanboy friend, who is jealous of his kewl powerz (and thus guilty of the sin of Envy) or else go after the Lancelot figure, the paladin's rival who's an even better warrior who's the paragon of all virtues save one, that being humility, because he's got one big-ass honking case of Pride (which is also a sin) coupled with a tact-deficiency. The Powerz of Eeeeevil then give the fanboy or rival the full package of paladin powerz, except they also want him to destroy the paladin or do some other evil deed, and when he suddenly wises up to this and refuses, they pull the rug out from under him by revoking all of his kewl powerz. In theory, the sidekick or rival is supposed to be so enamored of the kewl powers that he becomes a blackguard to keep them, but in practice, what happens with this trope is that the paladin always saves him, and having had extreme aversion-therapy to the sin of Envy or Pride respectively, is finally pure enough to become an actual paladin. The Powerz of Goooood then surprise the original paladin by having his sidekick or rival now converted to a full paladin to fight at his side.

I'd see Asmodeus as being perfectly willing to do a Green Ranger Gambit with a tiefling, especially if there were some reasonable chance of return on investment and getting a blackguard out of the deal, rather than a redeemed paladin as always happens with the happy endings the bards like to sing about.


Watcher wrote:


Nothing says Neutral Good, Neutral and heck nothing actually says Lawful Evil CAN'T have LG paladins. I can see LE gods having paladins just to tear them down.

Given that Paladins fall for performing any evil act, and that Evil gods are likely to demand evil acts as part of their worship, there seems to be a reason Evil gods can't have paladins.

Unless the world has a god who is the personification of Law and Good I see paladins as being more loyal to those principles that to any individual god.


pjackson wrote:
Watcher NEVER wrote:


Nothing says Neutral Good, Neutral and heck nothing actually says Lawful Evil CAN'T have LG paladins. I can see LE gods having paladins just to tear them down.

Given that Paladins fall for performing any evil act, and that Evil gods are likely to demand evil acts as part of their worship, there seems to be a reason Evil gods can't have paladins.

Unless the world has a god who is the personification of Law and Good I see paladins as being more loyal to those principles that to any individual god.

Pjackson, I agree with you 100%.

You have mistakenly put my name on that quote. Those are not my words, and I don't support or agree with what they say. In trimming the quotes back, you got the wrong person.

Not that I'm mad about it, and I happy for others to adopt that stance.. I just don't want others to address me directly replying to that position.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Lost Omens Campaign Setting / General Discussion / Which god would be most likely have a tiefling paladin fighting for his / her cause? All Messageboards

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