Sean Bean heads cast for HBO's A Game of Thrones


Television

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"Promise me, Ned . . ."


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Seeing as how most of their children are younger than Jon, she obviously didn't resent him too much ;)

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
MeanDM wrote:
Edit: I read the other posts. I don't know, Cat was incredibly loyal, and was perfectly capable of keeping that secret. He hurt her and John for years over a secret that he could have at least told Cat. Even if he didn't tell John because telling kids to keep secrets is usually useless, at least Cat would have understood that Ned was the man she thought she was marrying. There is nothing in her character that indicates that she couldn't avoid endangering John and Ned.

While being Loyal, she was also driven excessively by her emotions. Her grief over Bran caused her to eat up the lies that Littlefinger fed her about Tyrion, starting the War of Five Kings. She regretted it even before getting to the Eyrie.

Her emotions set Jaime Lannister free in the Riverlands, leading to the exodus of the Karstarks and northern lords which was a contributing factor to the Red Wedding. This same decision also set up Roose and his awful awful son to ruling the North post Stark.

Cat's emotions even continued after death, as she raised as Lady Stoneheart and existed soley as a method of revenge and hatred against the Freys.

Maybe Ned could have seen trusting her with the secret he kept from everyone. Or maybe, as the years went on and he saw how her emotions turned Jon into a facet of loathing, he couldn't bear to add that secret to her emotional arsenal. In the post Bran grief, when she was not in her sorts, that little secret gets out, and gets to Robert's ear, and Jon is killed in the King's hate fueled fury.


It's not that I'm going to favorite every single post from now on, it's just that the last few have made good points.


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Hitdice wrote:
It's not that I'm going to favorite every single post from now on, it's just that the last few have made good points.

Hitdice confirmed as Tsundere!

"I just favorited your posts because I wanted to... It's not like I like you or anything... Baka!"

XD


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or Tacticslion :)

Paizo Employee Developer

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Anyone else expect to see some of Bran's time-travel visions provide some clarity on the issue? When he looked back into the past, the first thing I thought was that he'd see the truth of Jon's birth as a means of revealing it to the audience, but not be able to tell anyone else cause he's alone north of the Wall.


GM Niles wrote:
Bolton has always been reasonable...He just operated on his own levels of reasonability. Ramsay...he's just nuts.

Yeah...Roose's intentions may not always be good, but he goes about them more reasonably than most. Hell, the reason he betrayed Rob Stark is that Rob refused to listen to reason.


Mark Moreland wrote:
Anyone else expect to see some of Bran's time-travel visions provide some clarity on the issue? When he looked back into the past, the first thing I thought was that he'd see the truth of Jon's birth as a means of revealing it to the audience, but not be able to tell anyone else cause he's alone north of the Wall.

Yes, but not this early in the season...


I'm hoping Ramsey dies in an anti-climatic way. Like when whoever coems to deal with him arrives at Winterfell, they dicover it almost abandoned with just Ramsey, his dogs and 20 good men frothing about how he is the Warden of the North, return his bride, etc.. Cue all the arrows and he gets tossed into a pile with his dogs.


Eh...if we are going for "Awesome ways to murder Ramsey", my vote is death via Giant punting.

Roose's death was the most "shocking" moment of the ep for me, although I knew it was coming this season and since season 4 they have been building up his inevitable betrayal. I don't think Roose was stupid exactly, but mostly far to overconfident; Roose has, probably since Ramsay could barely walk, alternated between cutting Ramsay down and making him feel insignificant, and then building him back up. I think he was just confident that he was emotionally in a place where the idea of him betraying him just was inconceivable.

I like that the series seems on trajectory to finish, and all that entails, but I do worry they are rushing a bit too much. Tyrion's decision to free the dragons or Davo's being all pro Jon Snow resurrection seemed kind of sudden, and I am not really sure why Davos in particular was so gung-ho about that. There really wasn't a whole lot of scenes last year with those two, nor much to establish why Jon is snow important.

For a show rushing through things, could have used more development there, and you certainly could have cut "random guy getting killed by Frankengregor" or the really drawn out "Ramsay deals with Walda" situation in this episode to build upon that more.


Kryzbyn wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
Anyone else expect to see some of Bran's time-travel visions provide some clarity on the issue? When he looked back into the past, the first thing I thought was that he'd see the truth of Jon's birth as a means of revealing it to the audience, but not be able to tell anyone else cause he's alone north of the Wall.
Yes, but not this early in the season...

Also, the trees can only remember what one of the god-trees saw, IIRC.

But more importantly... That would be a lame way of making the reveal. I think it'd be better to use Howland Reed to reveal that secret... He's the father of Meera and Jajen (the two who siblings who helped bring Bran to the three-eyed crow) and the one living man who was present when Ned last saw Lyana.


Lemmy wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
Anyone else expect to see some of Bran's time-travel visions provide some clarity on the issue? When he looked back into the past, the first thing I thought was that he'd see the truth of Jon's birth as a means of revealing it to the audience, but not be able to tell anyone else cause he's alone north of the Wall.
Yes, but not this early in the season...

Also, the trees can only remember what one of the god-trees saw, IIRC.

True for books but I don't think the show is going with that interpretation (I don't think I have heard them say that Bran can only see through trees on the show).

My guess is that they are streamlining it and probably not going to introduce Howland Reed at all, and use visions to get that and similar info across.


MMCJawa wrote:

True for books but I don't think the show is going with that interpretation (I don't think I have heard them say that Bran can only see through trees on the show).

My guess is that they are streamlining it and probably not going to introduce Howland Reed at all, and use visions to get that and similar info across.

To be fair, we haven't heard much of anything about Bran in the shows... He didn't even appear last season.

Well... They did decide to finally bring Theon's uncle into the scene... They might be willing to make other super-late character introductions. Specially if it's one that hasn't shown up in the books either. :P


MannyGoblin wrote:
I'm hoping Ramsey dies in an anti-climatic way. Like when whoever coems to deal with him arrives at Winterfell, they dicover it almost abandoned with just Ramsey, his dogs and 20 good men frothing about how he is the Warden of the North, return his bride, etc.. Cue all the arrows and he gets tossed into a pile with his dogs.

He's been built up too much as johns evil twin. Bastard born to a noble house, want to take up winterfel, and he even has some doggies for ghost to go canine a canine with.


Yeah I think Ramsay is toast this season, and probably will go out in a big battle.

All his spontaneous cruelty and chaotic evil ways is going to lead to his downfall by further alienating the Northern Houses, which are probably going to be won over by Sansa for Team Stark this season.

I just wonder how the hell or even if the Freys are going to enter into this?


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On a food cart :)


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MMCJawa wrote:


For a show rushing through things, could have used more development there, and you certainly could have cut "random guy getting killed by Frankengregor" or the really drawn out "Ramsay deals with Walda" situation in this episode to build upon that more.

Walda and son were dead the instant the blade entered Roose's ribs. 'Bring them to me.' would be just as effective. I mean, Ramsey is too bugnuts whacko to even consider keeping Walda around as a hostage, what do people expect to happen. A twist that I would have liked is the Maester slipping some painless poison to Walda and son before downing it himself.


MMCJawa wrote:
I just wonder how the hell or even if the Freys are going to enter into this?

Maybe as revenge on Walda's death? The Frey really don't like being cheated...


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Huh. So the Karstarks have wanted to be wardens in the north/kings in the north for 500 years, and you're relying on them to keep you in power...

I just hope the doggie lives. He was cute.


Lemmy wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
I just wonder how the hell or even if the Freys are going to enter into this?
Maybe as revenge on Walda's death? The Frey really don't like being cheated...

Ramsay could just tell them they were killed, pointing the finger at other Northerners. While mentioning that if the Boltons go down, who do you think will be next on the "North Remembers" hitlist. It's going to come down to whether or not the Northern lords or some faction of them rise in rebellion BEFORE Bolton goes after Jon.

I just have trouble seeing the Frey's entering an alliance with any of the "good guys" in this situation. Ep 9 is suppose to feature the biggest battle scene yet in GoT history. Doesn't seem like it would be very dramatic if it's Boltons vs practically everyone else in or near the North.


Heck, Ramsay could spread the word that Theon killed Walda and Roose Jr during his escape with ("kidnapping" of?) Sansa. That could preserve the Bolton alliance with the Freys, and distract the Freys by pitting them against the Iron Islands.


MannyGoblin wrote:

Walda and son were dead the instant the blade entered Roose's ribs. 'Bring them to me.' would be just as effective. I mean, Ramsey is too bugnuts whacko to even consider keeping Walda around as a hostage, what do people expect to happen. A twist that I would have liked is the Maester slipping some painless poison to Walda and son before downing it himself.

Yeah but then how could HBO have included more torture porn? That scene was the only scene I disliked in the episode... it seemed rather pointless.

I even stomached the "let's burn alive a small child so we might win a battle" scene because it kinda made sense to show it happening. But the "let's show dogs ripping apart a mother and her newborn"...c'mon HBO.


To be fair, they didn't actually show the dogs ripping her apart. Not that that the sound effects weren't more than enough.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
MMCJawa wrote:

Eh...if we are going for "Awesome ways to murder Ramsey", my vote is death via Giant punting.

Roose's death was the most "shocking" moment of the ep for me, although I knew it was coming this season and since season 4 they have been building up his inevitable betrayal. I don't think Roose was stupid exactly, but mostly far to overconfident; Roose has, probably since Ramsay could barely walk, alternated between cutting Ramsay down and making him feel insignificant, and then building him back up. I think he was just confident that he was emotionally in a place where the idea of him betraying him just was inconceivable.

I like that the series seems on trajectory to finish, and all that entails, but I do worry they are rushing a bit too much. Tyrion's decision to free the dragons or Davo's being all pro Jon Snow resurrection seemed kind of sudden, and I am not really sure why Davos in particular was so gung-ho about that. There really wasn't a whole lot of scenes last year with those two, nor much to establish why Jon is snow important.

For a show rushing through things, could have used more development there, and you certainly could have cut "random guy getting killed by Frankengregor" or the really drawn out "Ramsay deals with Walda" situation in this episode to build upon that more.

Particularly since in the books, Davos is nowhere near there at the time John dies. I mean, I know they are modifying and condensing storylines (and I am fine with that), but sometimes the choices they make in doing so really puzzle me.


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Link to a site that has the differences between the show and book

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I think the reason they put Davos as the plot mover is that he's a pretty popular character who, while being morally gray, is very genuine and relateable. He is an everyman amongst gods and kings and that resonates a bit.


archmagi1 wrote:
I think the reason they put Davos as the plot mover is that he's a pretty popular character who, while being morally gray, is very genuine and relatable. He is an everyman amongst gods and kings and that resonates a bit.

What this guy said....Davos is likable and doesn't have any major character flaws, which is in short supply in GoT right now.


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archmagi1 wrote:
I think the reason they put Davos as the plot mover is that he's a pretty popular character who, while being morally gray, is very genuine and relateable. He is an everyman amongst gods and kings and that resonates a bit.

Oh come on, in this setting he qualifies as lawful good.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
archmagi1 wrote:
I think the reason they put Davos as the plot mover is that he's a pretty popular character who, while being morally gray, is very genuine and relateable. He is an everyman amongst gods and kings and that resonates a bit.

I get that. What puzzles me more, is that by doing so, they show some real changes in his character with no discernible reason. He was incredibly disturbed by the idea of the smoke demon, and has distrusted Melisandre throughout, so having him be the one that recommends the res seems odd. Add to that, and I am not sure where he would have even heard about Berric's resurrection. The fact that he should be doing something else that seems like it might be plot important matters less. They have shown with the treatment of the election of the king of the Ironborn that moving things around time-wise doesn't really change much.


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You can drink poison, not freeze to death in your skivies in canada, and give birth to a shadow demon thing that can assassinate people. Can you raise the dead seems like a reasonable question.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Its entirely possible that its the honor of the nights watch that fuels the magic of the wall, in which case re assembling them would be a bad thing.

I don't think that's ever really been suggested. If that was true, the Wall would have started crumbling as the numbers of the Night's Watch came down (the NW has lost 90% of its numbers in just 300 years). The magic of the Wall is inherent to the structure itself and whatever the children of the forest did to it.

Quote:
Anyone else expect to see some of Bran's time-travel visions provide some clarity on the issue? When he looked back into the past, the first thing I thought was that he'd see the truth of Jon's birth as a means of revealing it to the audience, but not be able to tell anyone else cause he's alone north of the Wall.

Yup:

Spoiler:
The trailer for next week's episode suggests we might even see it then.

Quote:
Also, the trees can only remember what one of the god-trees saw, IIRC.

In the books, yes. Clearly not in the TV series, as there is no weirwood in Winterfell's courtyard.

Quote:
I just wonder how the hell or even if the Freys are going to enter into this?

Spoiler:
There's a storyline at the Twins later this season. You can see it in some of the full-season previews. It's got some people curious about what's going on there.

In the books, yes. Clearly not in the TV series, as there is no weirwood in Winterfell's courtyard.

There's no weirwood Trunk.

Bet you the roots go that far.


BigNorseWolf wrote:


You can drink poison, not freeze to death in your skivies in canada, and give birth to a shadow demon thing that can assassinate people. Can you raise the dead seems like a reasonable question.

That's almost a direct quote from that scene in the show...


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Thinking on how Cleganebowl might happen,

From the pre-season teaser where Cersei says 'I choose violence' I am guessing that The Sparrows try taking Cersei away again and Ser Strong hacks them apart. Cue the gathered Lannister forces/goldcloaks/kingsguard who are about to charge the Sparrow base when the High Sparrow comes out and lays down an ultimatum, if he is cut down the people of King's Landing will riot and KL will burn so he wants a trial. Cue a kangaroo court where he demands trial by combat. Cersei appoints Strong and out comes Hound as HS's champion.


Oooh @Mannygoblin that's an awesome theory...and would be completely badass too!

Sovereign Court

MannyGoblin wrote:

Thinking on how Cleganebowl might happen,

From the pre-season teaser where Cersei says 'I choose violence' I am guessing that The Sparrows try taking Cersei away again and Ser Strong hacks them apart. Cue the gathered Lannister forces/goldcloaks/kingsguard who are about to charge the Sparrow base when the High Sparrow comes out and lays down an ultimatum, if he is cut down the people of King's Landing will riot and KL will burn so he wants a trial. Cue a kangaroo court where he demands trial by combat. Cersei appoints Strong and out comes Hound as HS's champion.

Hound is dead. Also, he wouldn't stand a chance against frankengregor

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

The show skipped the whole Sept commune from the books that people think the Hound lives from. I don't think they'll pull a thread from season 4 that they didn't touch on all last season or in the previews. I mean, Brienne and Pod could still stumble across it on their way back south, but i see that as a stretch. I think it will be confessed and repented Knight of Flowers vs Strong. Loras beat real Gregor way back in the Hand's Tourney, and it will be a neat circle of closure on the stories.


I dunno if Ser Loras could defeat Frankengregor after rotting in a cell for who knows how long.


Quote:

There's no weirwood Trunk.

Bet you the roots go that far.

In the TV show that's a possible explanation. But in the books the greenseers need the actual eyes of the weirdwood face to see through. They can't seen anything that happens outside that radius.

Hama wrote:
Hound is dead. Also, he wouldn't stand a chance against frankengregor

"The Hound" is certainly dead.

Spoiler:
But, as shown in A FEAST FOR CROWS, Sandor lives.

Quote:
The show skipped the whole Sept commune from the books that people think the Hound lives from. I don't think they'll pull a thread from season 4 that they didn't touch on all last season or in the previews. I mean, Brienne and Pod could still stumble across it on their way back south, but i see that as a stretch. I think it will be confessed and repented Knight of Flowers vs Strong. Loras beat real Gregor way back in the Hand's Tourney, and it will be a neat circle of closure on the stories.

Spoiler:
Nope, it's all in this season. They even got Ian McShane to play Septon Meribald, or an amalgamation of him and the First Brother from the septry on Quiet Isle.

@Werthead

Spoiler:
Werthead wrote:
But, as shown in A FEAST FOR CROWS, Sandor lives.

It wasn't shown... It was "shown". It might very well be fans' wishful thinking (including mine). GRRM left it open-ended enough to be able to decide later whether or not Sandor lives and/or participates any further in the story.

But even if he's back, I don't know if he'd be able to defeat Frakengregor... I mean... He could at very least hold his own against gregor before (as shown when he defends Loras from Gregor during the tournament all the way back in the 1st book/season), but even then, it should be quite the difficult fight... And that was before Gregor's "upgrades".


I know there is a lot of speculation/wishes that Gregor and Sandor are going to have it out, but I don't think its going to happen, at least not in the book. I don't think Sandor is in a vengeful mode right now, nor do I think anyone know where he is to request him for trial by combat.

Also, it's not like there would be an emotional payoff. Gregorstein is an animated shell...the person who scarred Sandor is dead.

The only way I could see this happening is if Gregorstein was sent after Sansa/Arya, and somehow Sandor found himself in a position to defend them. Which could happen? but at this point is so far out its not worth much serious consideration.


I don't see Cersei giving up her tank pet.


What I've wondered...

Spoiler:
So when Frankengregor mushes that guy's head after talking crap about Cersei, did he hear it and react, or did Cersei hear about it and send him?


Isn't it obvious, Kryzbin?

Spoiler:
Frekengregor occasionally stops guarding the queen to hang out on piss-poor taverns. ¬¬'

Yeah... That scene made no sense.


Cersei sending him out with the orders to kill anyone speaking ill of me or my son makes absolutely perfect sense for her character.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Cersei sending him out with the orders to kill anyone speaking ill of me or my son makes absolutely perfect sense for her character.

It makes more sense for her to keep him around at all times. Specially after what she's been through.


Lemmy wrote:

Isn't it obvious, Kryzbin?

** spoiler omitted **

+1. That scene was definitely out of left field without any set up.


archmagi1 wrote:
I think it will be confessed and repented Knight of Flowers vs Strong. Loras beat real Gregor way back in the Hand's Tourney, and it will be a neat circle of closure on the stories.

There's a massive difference between knocking a man off a horse in a tournament joust, and killing a man in a actual fight to the death.


Was that the same actor who did actually flash her during her shame-walk? Or was it just the guy doing some tavern-boasting?

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