Sean Bean heads cast for HBO's A Game of Thrones


Television

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justmebd wrote:
The Producers said they cut the LS storyline because they don't know what to do with it yet. Not kidding. Forgot where I read that, so no link. (Check EW or Warming Glow)

I haven't seen anything from the producers yet, but the director of the finale commented on the lack of Stoneheart, and the basis of her exclusion was that they didn't want to bring Michelle Fairley back for a couple of minutes to kill some random people. Apparently he has asked the last two seasons on when/if LS is going to show up, but the showrunners are keeping that info close to their chest.

Given the news coverage around the LACK of LS, I am thinking at this point they might have blown their chance to actually have it surprise the audience.


I think that 90% of the normal audience wont be looking for spoilers. I've done the same for Walking Dead. I could easily see who will die but i havent peaked. my guess is LS is the the last episode of next season otherwise you leave characters involved in that episode out of the rest of the season (unless you bypass the books).

Who else think the Hound lives?


wicked cool wrote:


Who else think the Hound lives?

Not the Hound, unless there's a maester hiding behind that rock.

Sovereign Court

Hound is dead.


For people watching Season 4, is the new Daario OK? I had just gotten to accept, and then like the Fabio one from Season 3.


Hama wrote:
Hound is dead.

Slightly speculative spoiler:
He survived in the books. I'm pretty sure that was him in the quiet isle.

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Kirth Gersen wrote:
For people watching Season 4, is the new Daario OK? I had just gotten to accept, and then like the Fabio one from Season 3.

I preferred the smug douchebro version from season 3; he seemed to fit my mental image of book Daario better than the blandly-better-looking but largely unremarkable season 4 Daario.


Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. Daario needs to be larger than life, not blend into the scenery. I was upset enough that they didn't include Strong Belwas; the least they could do is leave us with an unabashedly flamboyant Daario.

Sovereign Court

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Kirth Gersen wrote:
Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. Daario needs to be larger than life, not blend into the scenery. I was upset enough that they didn't include Strong Belwas; the least they could do is leave us with an unabashedly flamboyant Daario.

Yeah the new guy doesnt sell it at all. Not sure if its his fault or the showrunners. It feels like watching a daytime soap or rom-com every time he is on screen. Good thing is this is one of a few lowpoints for the show. Overall its still really good.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Hama wrote:
Hound is dead.
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
It may have been Sandor, but the Hound is dead.

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Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
For people watching Season 4, is the new Daario OK? I had just gotten to accept, and then like the Fabio one from Season 3.
I preferred the smug douchebro version from season 3; he seemed to fit my mental image of book Daario better than the blandly-better-looking but largely unremarkable season 4 Daario.

Yeah...Dario 1.0 had that sort of smug douchebag quality that really works for the character. Dario 2.0 isn't a bad actor, but doesn't really have that vibe. and a brown-haired, bearded dude just sort of blends in with everyone else.

To be fair...my understanding is that the actor left the show to do some movie, so the directors might have had to scramble for actors for the role.


Daario= blech. Girly stuff.

Bring me more head smashings!


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Season 3: Nailed it!


Can't sleep, Stannis will eat me.


MMCJawa wrote:
To be fair... my understanding is that the actor left the show to do some movie

Yeah, trying to be Jason Statham for Transporter 4. Lame!


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Kirth Gersen wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
To be fair... my understanding is that the actor left the show to do some movie
Yeah, trying to be Jason Statham for Transporter 4. Lame!

I dunno, that totally sounds like something Daario Naharis would do to further Daario Naharis' career. Perhaps he's really into method acting?


specuation and not a spoiler-What are peoples thoughts on the Fire vs ice setup in the title. Assuming the dragons (fire) are the key to defeating the whitewalkers (ice)? Is the red lady part of the solution or the problem?

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wicked cool wrote:
specuation and not a spoiler-What are peoples thoughts on the Fire vs ice setup in the title. Assuming the dragons (fire) are the key to defeating the whitewalkers (ice)? Is the red lady part of the solution or the problem?

spoiler:
My guess is that both the whitewalkers (ice) and the dragons (fire) are bad news. The humans will have to manuever the two against one another enough to weaken them so they can overcome both and restore some level of peace to the land.

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Rynjin wrote:


It's not longer than any of his contemporaries.

Er, they are, by a fair bit. The only fantasy novels published in the last decade to come even close are THE WISE MAN'S FEAR and WORDS OF RADIANCE, and even they are 20-30,000 words shorter.

The only fantasy novels in existence that are longer than the longest ASoIaF books are LotR and Tad Williams' TO GREEN ANGEL TOWER.

Quote:
I'm of the opinion that if Robert Jordan can put out a novel every 2 years or so, of similar length (if not more!) on his deathbed, GRRM should be able to do it given 3-4 at least.

RJ's longest novel was THE SHADOW RISING, which was still 40,000 words shorter than A STORM OF SWORDS or A DANCE OF DRAGONS, and written a long time before RJ died. RJ was getting up to 2-3 years each for his last four books, each of which was around 250-320,000 words. And, much as I enjoyed TWoT, let's not kid ourselves those books compare even to GRRM's last two books.

Also, RJ never wrote a book on his deathbed. He was diagnosed with cardiac amyloidosis after Book 11 - his last one - came out and after some very early work on the next book had been done. He spend time writing notes and outlines, but not much actual fiction.

Quote:
And I'm quite certain Tolkien wouldn't have taken ten years on LotR if he'd had a computer.

The primary reason for Tolkien taking that long was his infamous procrastination, self-doubt and not touching the manuscript for months (and at one point a year) at a time. He may have written a bit faster with a computer, but that was not the primary cause of the delay.

Quote:
At least they were COMPLETE, and bad, instead of HALF FINISHED and bad.

Incorrect. Books 8 and 9 were supposed to be one book, and 10 and 11 were supposed to be another. RJ kept splitting them up rather than delete the inconsequential filler chapters (which in the case of Book 10 was pretty much the entire novel).

Also, whilst AFFC and ADWD have issues, they are in no way comparable to the problems Jordan had. Even AFFC's most tepid chapters tower most convicingly over the finest moments from PATH OF DAGGERS or CROSSROADS OF TWILIGHT in terms of characterisation and thematic development (even if plot progress was not as strong as might be wished).


Werthead wrote:
The only fantasy novels published in the last decade to come even close are THE WISE MAN'S FEAR and WORDS OF RADIANCE

Susanna Clarke's Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrel is > 327K words -- longer than all but two of the SoIaF novels.

Werthead wrote:
The only fantasy novels in existence that are longer than the longest ASoIaF books are LotR and Tad Williams' TO GREEN ANGEL TOWER.

Each of the 3 LotR novels is substantially less than 200K words long (187K, 155K, and 131K, respectively).

Contrast with Stephen King's The Stand (464K words).


wicked cool wrote:
specuation and not a spoiler-What are peoples thoughts on the Fire vs ice setup in the title. Assuming the dragons (fire) are the key to defeating the whitewalkers (ice)? Is the red lady part of the solution or the problem?

She's part of the solution but she's misguided. The Prince[ non gender specific child of a ruler in the original language] that was promised is daenarys, not Stannis. Its going to be up to her whether she can see past her own hubris and admit she was wrong and switch teams, or ride her ego right into a confrontation with the will of her own god.

Liberty's Edge

No one expects the Stannis inquistion

I was'nt expecting that ;)


CapeCodRPGer wrote:
No one expects the Stannis inquistion

Thar' Be Stannis:

I think the most significant part of this storyline in the books, and that felt kinda underplayed in this scene, was that this is the point where Stannis really becomes a significant character. Stannis is the only one with any influence in the Seven Kingdoms who takes the Night's Watch's plead for help serious.

As a reader, we know just how dangerous the situation up north can be, and it has been frustrating how everyone with any hope of dealing with it has been completely oblivious to the troubles brewing. And here comes Stannis and goes "well, that sounds kinda important!" (thanks to Davos, admittedly!)

To me, this was really the point where Stannis went from "some guy sitting on Dragonstone with a story that's going absolutely nowhere" to become a significant player. While everyone else are squabbling over who should rule the Seven Kingdoms, Stannis & Co. are out there trying to make sure there's Seven Kingdoms to rule at all.

I thought that has been underplayed a bit too much in the show. At least, people who I know who haven't read the books didn't really catch why his presence in the North was significant. They were more like "well, that was convenient."


justmebd wrote:
The Producers said they cut the LS storyline because they don't know what to do with it yet. Not kidding. Forgot where I read that, so no link. (Check EW or Warming Glow)

Well, here's a short article which touches on it.

Shadow Lodge

Has Stannis done anything in the show that wasn't either at the direction of Melisandre or the advice of Davros?

Either of those two would make a better king than Stannis the Puppet.


Quote:
The Producers said they cut the LS storyline because they don't know what to do with it yet.

I believe there's still some discussion about what's going on with it, which is why they couldn't tell the director what was happening.

The current theories are:

Spoiler:
LS, along with the ironborn storyline, may be dependent on the show going seven or eight seasons. In the case of eight, LS can be included and the ironborn plot can also appeared, although likely in a truncated form (as the Dorne plot sounds like it will appear in a more restrained form). In the case of seven, LS and the ironborn can be dropped altogether, maybe with a briefer storyline focusing on Yara and not bringing in Euron and Victarion (Balon presumably must still die due to the leeching scene, though).

I suspect harder discussions on that are happening now, with everyone leaning towards seven as the magic number due to recent comments.

The only problem with all of this is that without LS, Brienne's storyline for next year would seem to be lacking a decent ending, unless they decide to make stuff up out of thin air.

Quote:
Each of the 3 LotR novels is substantially less than 200K words long (187K, 155K, and 131K, respectively).

LotR is one novel but originally published in three volumes due to the cost of paper in the UK post-war. But it was written and executed as one book and only divided into volumes long after completion.


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Book Spoilers relevant to season 5 stuff:

I don't think LS will stay or be cut based on whether they do season 7 or 8. I think it will largely be dependent on if the actress want to return to the role. She may not exactly want to come back just to play an undead abomination for a few episodes.

Right now I lean towards her showing up, but probably not until the last couple of episodes. Basically showing up only when Brienne runs into her. I would be more worried about her being absent if Brienne was killed by the hound, or if the BWB wasn't introduced.

I have no idea if the Ironborn plotline will be in the show. A lot of it will depend on how important Victarion and Euron are to the rest of the series (and how big a fan the showrunners are to that plotline).

Admittedly, if I had my choice I would rather cut the Myrcella plot and keep the Kingsmoot, but we are definitely getting some iteration of the former plot. And even if they ditch the Kingsmoot their might be ways to keep Victarion/Euron around on the show.

That said I think the Kingsmoot can be done in 3-5 episodes. Whether that happens or remains to be seen. Hopefully we get a major casting announcement sooner than later.


Book Stuff:

I personally found the Ironborn storyline pretty boring. "Woo, we're viking analogues. Woo!" Some of their culture stuff, particularly their religion, was interesting, but for the most part I really didn't care.

I actually liked the Dorne bits, particularly the Sand Snakes (as ridiculous as their wanting revenge for their father dying in a duel he wanted to have was).

I imagine a trimmed-down version of both could make for interesting TV, depending on how they do it.


Can we assume that the next season covers some/most of the last written book in the series? If so am i the only who feels that based on whats been revealed from this past season that the storyline will be dramatically different and that they could lose the viewing audience with too many new characters?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I've wondered that, too. Frankly, the books lost me a bit with all the new characters. The show may make that worse (or better I suppose, what with a mix of auditory and visual cues).


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As per usual, Even if they keep all the plotlines, they will be streamlining the characters, and it's likely a few characters will sit out a huge chunk of the season.

Also...Seasons 3/4 had a huge death toll. That's going to make it easier to introduce new characters.


Werthead wrote:
Quote:
The Producers said they cut the LS storyline because they don't know what to do with it yet.

I believe there's still some discussion about what's going on with it, which is why they couldn't tell the director what was happening.

The current theories are:

** spoiler omitted **

Quote:
Each of the 3 LotR novels is substantially less than 200K words long (187K, 155K, and 131K, respectively).

LotR is one novel but originally published in three volumes due to the cost of paper in the UK post-war. But it was written and executed as one book and only divided into volumes long after completion.

There wasn't a decent ending to Brienne's story in the book. In fact, I thought it was complete BS. What they did with her and the Hound in the season finale was light years better than anything Martin did with her character in the book. This was the point where I told my one friend he went "Tom Clancy" on us.

I know I'm in the minority because her character has been so popular, but I can't figure out why. Her Book 4 storyline can be completely cut and it doesn't affect the overall plot ONE SINGLE BIT.

That's my definition of "Going Tom Clancy." You have a character who you spend 300+ pages on for a storyline that ultimately has no relevance to the larger plot of the book.

I don't want to Spoiler anything, so those who have read Book 4 should know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

That's my rant. I HATE HATE HATE HATE Brienne in Book 4. Hate every page, every paragraph, every sentence. I felt like I had part of my life stolen from me for such a useless digression from the main plot.

(I might feel passionate about this. Just a guess)

LotR: I always chuckle how one publisher's financial decision changed the way fantasy book series were published.


Brienne in book 4 was not about her, or the enemies she faces, or anything else like that. It is solidly meaningless... unless you realize it's the way for GRRM to show us Crackclaw Point and the rest of that corner of Westeros.


The problem with the stoneheart arc is that books 4 and 5 are, together, still only half a book. They're all set up with no advancement or resolution. Lady stoneheart appears at the end of book 3? and..has had one brief scene since.

You could also bring in a different actress if you needed to.

"You look different

"well.. yes. Being dead and thrown into a river will do that


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Sissyl wrote:
Brienne in book 4 was not about her, or the enemies she faces, or anything else like that. It is solidly meaningless... unless you realize it's the way for GRRM to show us Crackclaw Point and the rest of that corner of Westeros.

GRRM does that a lot. He'll make someone a PoW character to give us an insight into what's going on in some part of the world, even if the character itself isn't doing anything interesting.

Imho Brienne's chapters are really more about exploring what the world on the wrong side of a castle wall looks like in wake of the war, than progressing any particular storyline.

The guys in charge might think the war is over, but the smallfolk probably disagree.

I enjoyed Brienne's chapters exactly because she was spending so much time just traveling through the "real" world.


Slaunyeh wrote:
Sissyl wrote:
Brienne in book 4 was not about her, or the enemies she faces, or anything else like that. It is solidly meaningless... unless you realize it's the way for GRRM to show us Crackclaw Point and the rest of that corner of Westeros.

GRRM does that a lot. He'll make someone a PoW character to give us an insight into what's going on in some part of the world, even if the character itself isn't doing anything interesting.

Imho Brienne's chapters are really more about exploring what the world on the wrong side of a castle wall looks like in wake of the war, than progressing any particular storyline.

The guys in charge might think the war is over, but the smallfolk probably disagree.

I enjoyed Brienne's chapters exactly because she was spending so much time just traveling through the "real" world.

That is exactly what much of Feast of Crows was for..showing the massive carnage war caused on the common people..hence lots of time spent on the grwoing number of Sparrows and why the Church is becoming stronger..the nobility won't care for the common people, but the church does.


I like the Brienne character as she doesnt fit the mold and im usually fine with the mold. Pefectly cast in the tv series as many actors have been.

Theres a lot of fade to black moments in the last published book and im not buying any of them.

minor spoiler but not really. In the previous seasons/books (prior to last tv season) there was a shapechanger on the wildlings. They havent done much with him does anyone think he will have a very different role from the books?


Black Dougal wrote:


That is exactly what much of Feast of Crows was for..showing the massive carnage war caused on the common people..hence lots of time spent on the grwoing number of Sparrows and why the Church is becoming stronger..the nobility won't care for the common people, but the church does.

Which is a great concept for a book, and I appreciate what GRRM was trying to do. It's definitely the type of thing that gets glossed over in most fantasy stories. Unfortunately, the end result was a very tedious read, which is disappointing, because I actually like the character of Brienne a lot.


wicked cool wrote:

minor spoiler but not really. In the previous seasons/books (prior to last tv season) there was a shapechanger on the wildlings. They havent done much with him does anyone think he will have a very different role from the books?

Orell had pretty much the same roll he did in the books.

Varymir Sixskins

uber spoiler:
Died in the beginning of book 5 to show the process of merging with your animal, something that may happen to john snow since he's been stabbed to death at the end of book 5. I don't know if melisandre can get his soul back in his body if that happens.

Liberty's Edge

I'll just leave this here.

Very well done.

Liberty's Edge

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Fist picture of Peter Dinklage from season 5

I think they may be going in a different direction then the books ;)

The Exchange

j.j. Murphy dead days into filming game of thrones part

A disaster...

Liberty's Edge

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Dinklage was robbed of the Emmy tonight.

Sovereign Court

CapeCodRPGer wrote:
Dinklage was robbed of the Emmy tonight.

Dinklage has done a fantastic job with GoT. Though I would have given the award to Jon Voight myself. Voight is amazing as Mickey Donovan.

Sovereign Court

Spoiler:
Some church or some thing in Dubrovnik is forbidding Lena Headey from walking naked through the streets. I hate conservative people.

Liberty's Edge

Hama wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Perhaps a bit more information and context here would be helpful ...

Is this something that happens in the books or is Lena Headey just prone to walk naked through the streets?

Sovereign Court

It's a scene that should happen in the show. As far as I remember, there was one like that in the books.

I can't find a news article in English.


Hama wrote:

It's a scene that should happen in the show. As far as I remember, there was one like that in the books.

I can't find a news article in English.

I'm spoilering for those who don't want to know, but:

ASOIAF spoiler:
As I recall the shame walk out of the church was a turning point in Cersei's development, where her true character is revealed to the world. We haven't seen enough of her since that "walk of shame" to know if she experiences an about-face like Jamie or becomes even "more evil."

In short, yes it was in the books.

Liberty's Edge

Season 5 trailer

Looks great can't wait. now if GRRM will just finish the next book so they will have more seasons.


While GGRM is not under any obligation to write faster, I think that at this point the creators of the show will need to go in their own direction if the series is to continue. Cracked.com did have a fairly
accurate opinion that this will have to happen because the long delays mean that characters are going to have to be recast as they get too old to be the child characters.

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