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On another note who here owns any of the BT RPG's and if so which ones? I have 2e used to have 3e but hated it and no longer do.
I have 2nd and that is where I got off the train gamewise. I have tried to keep up with the fiction off and on, but it is hit or miss as to whether I can actually find it or not.
One other thing I am confused on. Did Dark Age come first and the Jihad is explaining how we got there, or did the Jihad start first and then Wiz Kids went to the Dark Age?
Darkage was wizkids reboot...the jihad was just background something that happen 70 or 100 years back..history
Fleshing it out is new.
And yeah Irae,a time of war looks painful to read, it seems messy and over complex and not something I want to tackle.
I have 2nd and that is where I got off the train gamewise. I have tried to keep up with the fiction off and on, but it is hit or miss as to whether I can actually find it or not.
Do you recall the issues with the system? As I vaguely recall there was something.... anyhow I plan to reread it soon.
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One other thing I am confused on. Did Dark Age come first and the Jihad is explaining how we got there, or did the Jihad start first and then Wiz Kids went to the Dark Age?Darkage was wizkids reboot...the jihad was just background something that happen 70 or 100 years back..history
Fleshing it out is new.
And yeah Irae,a time of war looks painful to read, it seems messy and over complex and not something I want to tackle.
Sorry, I meant in terms of RL, I know how the stack up in the BT timeline.
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I have 2nd and that is where I got off the train gamewise. I have tried to keep up with the fiction off and on, but it is hit or miss as to whether I can actually find it or not.Do you recall the issues with the system? As I vaguely recall there was something.... anyhow I plan to reread it soon.
I don't recall any issues, but I haven't played since '92.
The order I gave, Darkage came first with clickytech. It was only later {and is still going on} that the jihad was unleashed on classic battletech. The darkage is still many years away in BT timeline.
On MW2 I recall ya could game it somehow but yeah have not played it since 95 or 96 at lest. We hacked shadowrun for a while there after MW3 was bust.
One other thing I am confused on. Did Dark Age come first and the Jihad is explaining how we got there, or did the Jihad start first and then Wiz Kids went to the Dark Age?
WizKids announced the Dark Age first and Mike Stackpole wrote a horrible piece of short intro fiction which bandied around how the Dark Age was the aftermath of a cataclysmic war which had destroyed the Inner Sphere and shattered the Houses (most of which has since been ret-conned away).
The most recent books done by Fanpro and Catalyst are an attempt to flesh out that transition period as much as possible, using the old FASA era script outline for the WoB Jihad to explain the rise of the Republic of the Sphere. It's a seriously unenviable job.
Basically, WizKids made a mess and the companies which took the IP seriously were left to clean it up. Given what they had to work with, they've done a fantastic job.
The early 'factions' of MechWarrior Dark Age have likewise been retconned as 'terrorists' and 'secessionists' who wished to tear apart the Republic so they could return to their parent state (and their use of armed Industrial 'Mechs has been explained away in the same way a militia might create a Technical).
One other thing I am confused on. Did Dark Age come first and the Jihad is explaining how we got there, or did the Jihad start first and then Wiz Kids went to the Dark Age?
Dark Age was the setting for ClickyTech and advanced the timeline by about two generations. Jihad is how they're filling in the timeline from the end of the FanPro license to ClickyTech.
There are a lot of things I like about the New BT. There are things I really really wish had been thought of during the 3055 era, just to prevent NerdRage!!!1!!
I hated when they turned em good. BT great houses are not good guys. They simply can not be.
But how are they evil now?
I dislike that they turned the Davions evil.
I dislike the Davions so we're about even. :-P
But on a more serious note, apparently a number of designers felt that it was about time that The Federated Suns got their turn behind the 'idiot ball'. They felt that despite being the center of 'Sphere-wide events, the Federated Suns always came off smelling like roses.
I don't fully agree with the move myself (I think Caleb Hasek-Sandoval-Davion's mental instability is overkill), but what the heck...
Anything that takes the heat off the Free World's League is game in my book.
I hated when they turned em good. BT great houses are not good guys. They simply can not be.
But how are they evil now?
We're not evil! Caleb! Kill him!
We're not evil! Caleb! Kill him!
But... but... oh why not...
*Tosses seekerofshadowlight off the balcony*
I really do not know who that is, but darkage seem to like crazy leaders. Not sure why anyone would put up with em but they all seem physio and bloodthirsty just to be that why.
Caleb Davion has paranoid schizophrenia, commited fratricide, and is a rapist. That is a little over the top just to darken Victor's squeaky clean image.I hated when they turned em good. BT great houses are not good guys. They simply can not be.
But how are they evil now?
Him TOO! HIM TOO!
Him TOO! HIM TOO!
*SHRUG*
Lots of space in the courtyard I guess...
*LOB*
Begone foolish one. It is time for us to take back what is rightfully ours!
Kinda hard to take back what ya never had...that and you are all dead.
That is what we wished you to believe. And the great Kerenskey declared the whole Inner Sphere as our birthright!
Nope, all dead. Only the foolish think otherwise..like those that believe tabloids..same thing.
Ya know what I hate..haveing to explain which version of the setting I am useing.
You can't simply say 3055 or 3050 any more as they new books have retconed the past, nit just the jihad. You can't simply play the war of 39 anymore..ya have to say which version..the old version or the new version they just published.
Sad really
I used to say just the era, but discussions on the BT forms have shown me my books are just wrong. Not old...out right wrong.
So many retcons I can't keep track, so have stopped, why by books that are not in the same setting I play, but a different setting with the same years and names.
I disliked DA, but when it left my setting alone I was ok with it, it was a long way off and aother line..so eh whatever. But I grew to really hate it when they changed my setting to make it fit DA
No, but they could have retconed darkage..to make it fit the game inplace e of retconing the old setting to make it fit darkage. Most of the big retcons are long after wizkids death
And they retconed alot of DA anyhow...sigh.
Agreed, I would have just not used the DA timeline at all rather then remake the whole setting. Reminds me of the 4e realms alot in a way.
Agreed, I would have just not used the DA timeline at all rather then remake the whole setting. Reminds me of the 4e realms alot in a way.
+1
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I am whole heartedly opposed to any retrocons that make the old materials obsolete. Apparently it should have been allowed to die with FASA.
This may come across as offensive. I hope it doesn't, but I tend to offend people on the internet. Please accept an apology in advance:
As a Commando seeing a lot of new players, I wholeheartedly support of retcons which make it easier for a new player to get into the game.
I don't mind that my old and long out of print FASA era House and Clan Sourcebooks are rendered obsolete just so long as I can keep a steady stream of new players marching to the firing line.
If I can tell a player "You like the era? Here's a book which contains everything you need to know...", it means one more book sold for Catalyst and another player buying stuff from the store. If it means stepping on the toes of canon to get another player, so be it.
I can't sell a player on "This isn't the truth. You should listen to me because I have a 20 year old yellowing book which is rapidly succumbing to age that is better than what you are reading." It felt good for a bit, but then I realized that if I wanted to have a meaningful conversation with the new guys, I had to move on if I wanted to keep playing the game I love.
I've had to run a couple of cranky "old-school" players out of my community, not because they were bad players or anything but because their constant snobbery at anything they considered as a "Bad Era" was toxic to community growth. Some of them later came back realizing that "Bad" BattleTech was better than no Battletech.
If the new guy/gal wants to run around with Clan Heavy Lasers, Stealth Armor, Heavy Gauss Rifles and Snub-Nose PPCs, then so be it. My community knows I don't like the new toys and some of them even oblige the "RetroTech" guy to a game on his terms now and again, but as long as I don't demean a player for his choice of era, I remain an accepted member. Telling a player that their era of choice(some of my players are Clicky converts who bought Record Sheets: Dark Age so they could learn to play BattleTech in an era with designs they were familiar with) is inferior and should be written out of history is just damaging to the community as a whole.
I wish it would stop.
I voted with my dollars and I don't play anymore. It used to be fun, but to me it's not the game I used to enjoy. Like other games that have made changes I don't care for other folks are free to enjoy and patronize the new versions. To each their own.
It would not bug me as much if it was clearly marked "Alt time line" but no, they call it the same thing when it is a whole new setting.
They did NOT have to retcon the old books, guess what they worked fine..up instill the DA which did not fit the existing setting.
If you can't use the same books from 20 year ago..not because rules but because vast setting changes..it is not the same setting.
It would not bug me as much if it was clearly marked "Alt time line" but no, they call it the same thing when it is a whole new setting.
They did NOT have to retcon the old books, guess what they worked fine..up instill the DA which did not fit the existing setting.
If you can't use the same books from 20 year ago..not because rules but because vast setting changes..it is not the same setting.
It makes financial sense for Catalyst to continue to offend the continuity experts because although they refuse to buy their books, there are people who do (more, in fact). According to corporate releases and industry pieces, Catalyst had Battletech poised for a fairly large resurgance before the financial scandals hit - even without the support of the Old Guard.
I have no problem with voting with your dollar and feet. But like it or not the current products still sell and though the old books we cling to, while still accurate in their broad strokes, are no longer recognizable in minutiae to the new player.
So in a sense, old players are in fact the "Alternate Time Line" because they can't or don't support the current time line, and it's not the old players who are pushing the universe (and the product line) forward.
I dont buy that at all. I was buying stuff..Until I could not longer keep up with the retcons and disagreed with the retcons. One here and there..fine...reworking whole eras..not cool
Retcons had nothing to do with selling books. You could have sold your books and made war of 39 just like it happened I would have bought it all..not the NEW version.
They choose to rework the history, no one forced them to do so. They have chased away old players as many of us feel unwelcome and simply do not like the changes that are simply for the sake of change.
Old players can't push the line forward as we have had the option taken away. Even the ERA books which I wanted and looked forward to are MASSIVE retcons..not the ERA I played but an ALT time line of that era.
I am glad it sells, but the setting is not the one FASA published.
I dont buy that at all. I was buying stuff..Until I could not longer keep up with the retcons and disagreed with the retcons. One here and there..fine...reworking whole eras..not cool
Retcons had nothing to do with selling books. You could have sold your books and made war of 39 just like it happened I would have bought it all..not the NEW version.
They choose to rework the history, no one forced them to do so. They have chased away old players as many of us feel unwelcome and simply do not like the changes that are simply for the sake of change.
Not all the old players left either. Some came back.
I have old players back because they like the Refits, some who felt the Wolf Dragoon Level 2 Tech Candy Bar on Outreach in 3052 was "stupid". I have Succession War era players who get say the Jihad was the best thing since sliced bread after the "stupid" Clan War Soap Opera.
Apparently some in the Fanpro and Catalyst writing staff felt the same way. I don't begrudge them this sentiment.
I take this with the salt I take most corporate speak with, but it's not a blanket case amongst old players across the board. And if the numbers and corporate statements are anything to go by, business is better now than before.
The universe is tighter and more coherent than it was before in terms of technology progress - It's my opinion. It's about as valid as yours.
I drank the Kool-Aid. You didn't. We both have equally valid opinions on the matter.
I give Catalyst money. You decided not to. Apparently there were more people like me than you so Catalyst felt justified in what they did. I understand that situation and the frustration you feel, but at the end of the day, business is business.
But we can always talk about the good old days can't we? I'd rather not argue with you when we could be laughing at Victor. :-)
Okay... something really temporally weird just happened with the board.
Okay... something really temporally weird just happened with the board.
Or my internet server.
I was ok with some retcons, if thy were small or way in the past in eras untouched by the story.
Yeah victor and the superfriends blows..never give on novel writer free reign and then make it canon...never.
And the boards do wacky things..they just do.
My suspicion is that the Paizo servers occupy the same space time continuum as the bridge of the SLDF Manassas...
Or the Fold Engines of the original Macross.
Heh, they do something all right.
Another topic. Do any of you guys ever use megamek? That is the only way I have got a game in for years.
Our group stopped buying books when Fasa died and we don't play past Tukkayid in any case. In fact we rarely play games set after the War of '39
Major Sir Francis Urquhart...O/C 1st Kentares Armoured Scouts (Mech)
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I am whole heartedly opposed to any retrocons that make the old materials obsolete. Apparently it should have been allowed to die with FASA.This may come across as offensive. I hope it doesn't, but I tend to offend people on the internet. Please accept an apology in advance:
As a Commando seeing a lot of new players, I wholeheartedly support of retcons which make it easier for a new player to get into the game.
Don't get me wrong, I am not against retcons that end up selling more books. I am however against retcons that only serve the purpose of selling more books. As I have not personally read the Catalyst books I cannot say for certain where their products lie, although several of the TROs I have looked at seem to fall into the later category.
As an example, take the upcoming revised Pathfinder campaign setting. That seems to have a purpose beyond just selling books. They are also using it to tighten up the time line and get rid of a few things that seemed cool at the time but are just headaches now, or so it has been said. I am okay with that. I would also be okay with someone coming along and saying that the Robotech universe needs to be retconed because there was no World War III in 1999, so we should either change the war to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and keep the time line basicly intact if slightly advanced by four years or else we need to push the whole thing forward by an indeterminate number of years.
If the Battletech retcon was done to clear out some of the dead wood, make things tighter and make the universe more accessible to new players then I am cool with that. If it was retconed because Catalyst just didn't like the old story lines and wanted to remake the universe in their image, then that is problematic to me. I was led to believe it was the later, but I accept that this view need be taken with a grain of salt since it comes from scouring the internet and, with the exception of a few people, satisfied customers rarely voice their opinions.
Unfortunately I am in no position to dig deeper right now, both financially and in terms of time. Between D&D Encounters and a home game of Pathfinder for my kids I am spending about six hours a week on gaming, which is seven more hours then I actually have free. I usually know better than to speak from a position of ignorance, but I was caught up in the moment and got carried away. Although I had flirted with D&D off and on during the years, it was FASA's Battletech that I credit for getting me into gaming full time and I feel passionate about it still, even though I do not play anymore. Personally I was a fan of Stackpole and what he did with the Clans and the whole bit. To me it was fun, and as a history major I can look back now and see where he was drawing from real historical influences in his writing. From now on, I promise to only remark on things I know about and to do my own research before going off half cocked.
Open Source Java BattleTech
http://megamek.sourceforge.net/
I am whole heartedly opposed to any retrocons that make the old materials obsolete. Apparently it should have been allowed to die with FASA.This may come across as offensive. I hope it doesn't, but I tend to offend people on the internet. Please accept an apology in advance:
As a Commando seeing a lot of new players, I wholeheartedly support of retcons which make it easier for a new player to get into the game.
I don't mind that my old and long out of print FASA era House and Clan Sourcebooks are rendered obsolete just so long as I can keep a steady stream of new players marching to the firing line.
If I can tell a player "You like the era? Here's a book which contains everything you need to know...", it means one more book sold for Catalyst and another player buying stuff from the store. If it means stepping on the toes of canon to get another player, so be it.
I can't sell a player on "This isn't the truth. You should listen to me because I have a 20 year old yellowing book which is rapidly succumbing to age that is better than what you are reading." It felt good for a bit, but then I realized that if I wanted to have a meaningful conversation with the new guys, I had to move on if I wanted to keep playing the game I love.
I've had to run a couple of cranky "old-school" players out of my community, not because they were bad players or anything but because their constant snobbery at anything they considered as a "Bad Era" was toxic to community growth. Some of them later came back realizing that "Bad" BattleTech was better than no Battletech.
If the new guy/gal wants to run around with Clan Heavy Lasers, Stealth Armor, Heavy Gauss Rifles and Snub-Nose PPCs, then so be it. My community knows I don't like the new toys and some of them even oblige the "RetroTech" guy to a game on his terms now and again, but as long as I don't demean a player for his choice of era, I remain an accepted member. Telling a player that their era of choice(some of my...
I dislike that they turned the Davions evil.I dislike the Davions so we're about even. :-P
But on a more serious note, apparently a number of designers felt that it was about time that The Federated Suns got their turn behind the 'idiot ball'. They felt that despite being the center of 'Sphere-wide events, the Federated Suns always came off smelling like roses.
I don't fully agree with the move myself (I think Caleb Hasek-Sandoval-Davion's mental instability is overkill), but what the heck...
Anything that takes the heat off the Free World's League is game in my book.
The Federated Suns were turning into the Main Character faction for a while there, especially with the Civil War. I don't see it as the idiot ball so much as that they were really just getting TOO good- superfriends, et. al.
Him TOO! HIM TOO!Caleb Davion has paranoid schizophrenia, commited fratricide, and is a rapist. That is a little over the top just to darken Victor's squeaky clean image.I hated when they turned em good. BT great houses are not good guys. They simply can not be.
But how are they evil now?
LOL Mason Lambert.
I am whole heartedly opposed to any retrocons that make the old materials obsolete. Apparently it should have been allowed to die with FASA.
I don't agree, but speaking as a UC Gundam Fan, I understand(although Tomino is still with us, may he live forever).