Community opinions of the Lightless Depths


Savage Tide Adventure Path


Hey gang, the DZA here. My group and I are about to finish up Tides of Dread and I've been looking ahead to the LD and checking the boards to see what people thought. I've seen that some people had problems with this installment of the STAP and that some people recommend skipping it, or at least altering it in certain ways. I know the STAP is a little passe these days, but what are your opinions on this adventure? I'd really like to hear from the community.


Lightless Depths is one of the weaker adventures in STAP. But it still a good adventure; STAP is just so much above the norm that this one fell below the standards the adventure path has set.

Its pretty railroaded, and the motivation for some to the things you do at the end is pretty weak. If you do anything, it should be to give your players the information and lassitude to figure out their own solutions to the problems presented - particularly which targets to hit at the end.


I just finished going through this module as a player and found it to be quite fine. We had a couple of near tpks but we got through it.

After many discussions with our DM about the module (I'm also running another group through STAP but they're in SWW at the moment) we felt that the worst section was the endless trip into the depths which really needed to be more glossed over.

Also the Black pudding was deadly and should just be removed especially since it doesn't further the plot in any way.

We managed to handicap ourselves by one of our party deciding that the lizardman prisoner didn't deserve to live.

But regardless of this we managed to ge through and we had very little trouble deciding after a recconaisance flight around Golismorga that we needed to take out the pyramid and then have a look at the bottom of the crater.

At the level your party should be by this stage they should have no trouble making a surgical strike on the pyramid at a time of their own choosing. We only had difficulty in the final room, mainly because the BBEG was another grappler with improved grab. God that is the most broken thing about the rules and this path in particular, the amount of grapplers with insane skills and bonus attacks for improved grab. Ahh rant over, I feel better.

Overall though I think this mod doesn't need too much changing whereas we felt that SWW needed a major overhaul.

Sczarni

good points about the adventure:

Decent encounters in there. Dragon Turtle, Bilewretch, Devourer, Intellect Devourer, Aboleth.

Plenty of space in the middle for some Underdark/Darklands type encounters...driders, etc, whatever you want.

Some really good info re: the history of the Olman people and the Savage Tide, if the party pays attention (tip: when they go through the curtain, fill em in a la flashback telepathy)

a decent change from the overland/city-type adventures of the previous 3 episodes.

Downsides:

Aboleth + touchsight/blindsense/etc = useless RP encounter, go straight to combat. Underwater combat, nonetheless. Not superfun in my opinion.

Destroying the tear seems unreasonably stupid, especially if you figure out the history / purpose of it.

Kopru & Troglodytes are nothing but speed bumps at this level, basically giving free treasure and xp to savvy parties. The Behemoths are a bit more challenging, but still are fly potion dispensaries.

-t


Conceptually, I *really* liked TLD. An abandoned, living city... an artifact that keeps the whole ocean out... a lesser of two evils situation...

I felt this can actually be one of the most open-ended adventures in the whole series, if you let it. Ideally, I felt the PC's *should* try to take out the pyramid before destroying the tear. Best case: they manage it, but have the fight of their lives. Worst case, they get stomped, maybe leading to a tense scene where the surviving PC's flee to the tear to destroy it.


hhmm, my group is about start LD, we just had the "talk" with Lavina and to be honest I was really looking forward to run this. I guess everyone has their own opinions.

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
the DZA wrote:
...but what are your opinions on this adventure?

My group didn't have problems with it. It seemed to run smoothly as written (and I didn't make too many alterations). The hook-as-written seemed pretty odd to me, but I ran it basically as written and the party seemed to hardly notice once we got started.

Spoiler:
Hindsight being 20-20 and all, I'd probably change the initial hook to and send the party there as a consequence of some information they learn from Vanthus' personal journal. I'd also throw in a warning about the dragon turtle, then have them encounter it and either negotiate passage on their own, or realize the turtle is serious business.

Beyond that, I can't think of any major changes.

-Skeld

Contributor

Worked fine for my party. :D

Spoiler:

I blame Wes.


Thank you so much for the input! I think I might try to rework some things in the adventure, but everything is relative. What works for us may or may not work for you guys. Thanks again!

Lantern Lodge

I had a huge amount of fun running this, although I agree that it was weak in some areas. My party is neutral expedient, which leads to some highly hilarious moments.

Spoiler:
The first being the encounter with the Roper. They sent their trog prisoner/guide in to negotiate with it, and the Warlock pipes up with "And thus we deliver your Sacrifice, oh great dweller of caves..." The rest of the party is pissed, but by then it's too late.

The Aboleth in the ruins manages to negotiate with them, and for an expedient crew they're also incredibly trusting. Convinced that destroying the Tear is what they need to do, they venture fearlessly into the depths on a mission of destruction.

Now I admit, I had a GRAND time when they reached the city itself.

For a party that is systematically hunting down the named monsters of the island, it doesn't take much to rattle their chains in here. I actually had to tone it down as they were seriously considering turning around and going home 'RIGHT THE HELL NOW' as I was describing the scenery. Apparently houses that give their own windows tongue baths and one tower that picked up its roots to shift six feet to its left squicked them out. Who knew?

In the end, the tear is destroyed, they ignored the other half of the adventure down there, despite me doing everything short of hanging a neon sign on it with "Adventure continues here" in blinking pink lights, and headed home. We stopped for a hiatus here, but when I pick it up again they're headed to the central plateau, and I need to determine if multilimbed friend from the city swam his way up the connecting channel.


This thread addressed a number of the issues that people have had with the adventure. Much was made about the incentive to destroy the tear.

The Exchange

I thought it was a great adventure personally. The trick, I think, is to play up the absolute weirdness and spookiness of the city of Golismorga. If your PCs can't get a little freaked out by living buildings and the like, they're way too jaded.

As for the "railroading" aspect, I didn't pick up on that at all, really. There are a number of ways to deal with the threat posed by the city and end shadow pearl production (or at least delay for long enough that it doesn't matter for the purposes of the adventure), and each have their own drawbacks and advantages.


We had a GREAT time with this adventure! Then again, a bunch of Lovecraft fans would... I would like to echo the comment above about the black pudding though.

Spoiler:
It has "TPK by pointless wandering monster" written all over it -- it didn't actually kill us all, but it used up all available spells and resources, left the fighters at like -8 hp, and didn't seem to lead anywhere, or even have any reason to be there.

The Exchange

Nah, it has plenty of reason to be there, just as much as any ooze ever does. It's their environment. It's supposed to be tough, and it's good because it makes people think instead of the standard "I hit it with my sword" method of attack.

I think most adventures need more jellys, oozes, molds, etc, not less. They're an under-appreciated monster type. Just because they are mindless doesn't mean they're not dangerous, challenging, or fun to have to try to deal with.

And if you do get TPK'd by a CR-appropriate creature with 0 INT, what's that say about your party? :)

Sczarni

as far as the puddings, they were pretty much a non-threat for my party.

The conjurer had a "favorable wind" prepared, as always (he was ships mage and always had stuff like detect ships, raise from the deeps, and the like prepared, or at least on scrolls) so the poison gas was a non-issue

the rest of the party stayed back while the ranger put about 6 or 12 arrows in the critter, splitting it a bunch of times

the warmage, pyrokineticist, cleric, and nomad all hit the (much reduced HP) remaining critters with area affect spells, and after a couple rounds of combat it was all over.

kind of a let down in my opinion, but most parties don't have touchsight or blindsense in effect all the time. from my PLAYING with my group, I have taught them that perception, communication, and transportation is what magic is all about. Feel free to replace the word magic with psionics in the previous sentence.

-t


I should be running the encounter with Vanthus tomorrow night, which will hopefully wrap up ToD (we've spent the last 3 game sessions running the Battle of Farshore). I definitely enjoy being able to see other peoples thoughts and opinions of adventures before I run them for my players.

Makazu - thanks for that link, that was a great help!


Yeah, my PCs breezed past the pudding too.

The scout/barbarian (with boots of striding & springing, base move 70ft...) got past the ooze, and then pelted down the corridor heading away from it, just keeping far enough ahead to keep it following him. Pudding is mindless, so just kept chasing him even as the rest of the PCs followed along behind it and fireballed it into a little spot of grease.

Didn't lose even a single hit point in the encounter.


Humble Minion wrote:
Yeah, my PCs breezed past the pudding too.

Problem my group had was that they didn't have Knowledge (Dungeoneering), so no one knew about the Split ability... barbarian won initiative, full attacked, all suddenly all four of them are getting attacked by separate puddings.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
Problem my group had was that they didn't have Knowledge (Dungeoneering), so no one knew about the Split ability... barbarian won initiative, full attacked, all suddenly all four of them are getting attacked by separate puddings.

Neither did mine, but they learnt all about Split under Dark Mountain Pass in Here There Be Monsters...


Looking at the side view map and the conclusion of the adventure...

Spoiler:
Did anyone else think that it should have ended with them rocketing out of Golgesmera on half a dinosaur skull on a jet of water? Like in Journey to the Centre of the Earth? Then City of Broken idols would begin with them being dumped in the middle of the place?


Humble Minion wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Problem my group had was that they didn't have Knowledge (Dungeoneering), so no one knew about the Split ability... barbarian won initiative, full attacked, all suddenly all four of them are getting attacked by separate puddings.
Neither did mine, but they learnt all about Split under Dark Mountain Pass in Here There Be Monsters...

I know of a couple groups that completely dodged the first fight though in Dark Mountain Pass, either because they never checked that side of the complex, because they spotted the pudding and saw no need to fight it, or because they they went within 10ft. of it.


DMaple wrote:

Looking at the side view map and the conclusion of the adventure...

Did anyone else think that it should have ended with

Yeah. I was kinda surprised once I read the scenario that hints at a climactic finish were essentially red herrings.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

DMaple wrote:

Looking at the side view map and the conclusion of the adventure...

** spoiler omitted **

Oh I am so going to try that! Maybe on half a fiendish clamshell, but definitely have the water building towards the end!


Mazaku wrote:

I know of a couple groups that completely dodged the first fight though in Dark Mountain Pass, either because they never checked that side of the complex, because they spotted the pudding and saw no need to fight it, or because they they went within 10ft. of it.

Yeah, my group was like that. My character lobbed a rock at the suspicious looking pool. When it bounced, the relevant knowledge check told us what it was. The DM mistakenly inserted the word "elder" into his name of the monster. We fled that room as quickly as we would have done if Big D was in it.*

*Which ironically, I did in my new group recently when we were playing Crypt of Lyzandred. We fell into a room with Big D, and when I saw him, I sprinted as fast as possible away from him. Thankfully it wasn't as bad as we thought though ;)


DMaple wrote:

Looking at the side view map and the conclusion of the adventure...

** spoiler omitted **

that would be awsome! and as we start the end of Tides of Dread this week it will not be long...


Ok, I know this is sort of an old thread but I'm currently running LD in my campaign so I thought I'd share my experiences with it.

My PC's decided to negotiate with Emraag, then go into the depths and are planning on coming back and killing him afterwards. They're all chaotic, they have no problems lying to an evil dragon turtle.

I quickly saw that if I ran the adventure as written my group would seriously balk at destroying the tear. One of the party is a Paladin of Freedom (Unearthed Arcana chaotic good paladin variant.) He views mind controllers such as aboleths as not something to help out at all. Of course kopru are also dominators, so he is a bit more likely to do it but...

They saw through N'Glothnoru's illusions easily (the party wizard has Arcane Sight permeated.)

I also saw that my group would not have much trouble destroying the kopru menace in Golismorga even if they didn't destroy the tear. So I beefed up the kopru considerably. They had a major fight with one kopru scouting party then retreated for rest and came back. By this time Ulioth had put all his kopru minions on alert and when they came back they faced an even tougher fight. I added in some kopru with warlock levels and the party faced a near TPK, with one character dying and two others almost dying. At the same time, a ghost aboleth magic jarred one of the trog slaves and worked on convincing them to destroy the tear. They decided that was the way to go. They retreated, raised their fallen comrade and are going to go back to Golismorga and destroy the tear before trying to take out Ulioth and company.

My party includes a druid, and that has led to some fun roleplaying. Since druids would almost never help aboleths out, regardless of the cause, the party met with the druidic circle for advice. The druidic circle's suggestion was that if there was no other way to stop the production of the shadow pearls then perhaps the aboleths were lesser of two evils, at least for now. But their condition was that the party druid would return to Isle of Dread after her adventuring career is done (i.e. after she finishes STAP) and train a group of aboleth hunters. This group will pass down their knowledge, always watching for a return of the aboleth menace.

The Exchange

Kirth Gersen wrote:
Problem my group had was that they didn't have Knowledge (Dungeoneering), so no one knew about the Split ability... barbarian won initiative, full attacked, all suddenly all four of them are getting attacked by separate puddings.

That's a lesson to them then - maybe next time somebody should invest in some knowledge skills eh? That's not a flaw in the dungeon or the encounter, it's a flaw in the party. Stupidity is supposed to be painful sometimes - you can't just hack and slash everything in sight and not expect it to backfire now and then.

Again, there should be more of these sorts of creatures in dungeons, not less. Make people think a little. :)


Bacchreus wrote:
After many discussions with our DM about the module (I'm also running another group through STAP but they're in SWW at the moment) we felt that the worst section was the endless trip into the depths which really needed to be more glossed over.

Agreed our group felt that was just a series of encounters in order to level up. They couldn't be avoided, offered no real roleplay opportunities and it just seemed a long slog to the centre of the earth.


Yeah, unfortunately that's often the way wilderness travel goes, especially with higher level PC's as if they only get a couple of encounters per day they throw everything they have at them and don't feel challenged, then rest and everything re-sets. At least for me, there are a few interesting role-play opportunities here, and I beefed up some of the fights to be a bit more challenging (though still not especially so, in the end).

My guys are currently stressing about how they can deal with a whole city of Kopru though, so have headed back to see the Mongrelfolk to learn more before they enter - that's one weakness of the adventure I've seen - the players want to take out these "Lords of Dread", but have no idea how to stop the production of the pearls, not even any idea about the city's features... at best, they get a couple of NPC's handing them the quest(s) on a plate - it would be better if, somehow, the PC's could figure out more stuff themselves through clues, and make their own conclusions and plans, rather than having to be told by an NPC. Certainly my guys don't feel good about just wandering into a city full of hostile kopru, hoping to stumble into the BBEG's or whatever...


To be honest I'm thinking of making a few changes, namely replacing Kopru with Mindflayers... My reasoning being twofold. Number one my players want to throwdown with some in a bad way so I'm dropping them in (with no previous attachments to the isle, ie no experience, they aren't waiting for them to show up) and the kopru are very much like the mindflayers anyway. but secondly it will make the whole drowning idea make more sense, as the kopru are aquatic and mindflayers are very much not. I'm thinking of dropping the numbers so the els match up and using the mindflayers of thoon as replacements so that I still have behemoths and the like. Also I will probably remove some encounters (namely oozes and the like as they aren't well recieved by my players) and maybe change a few other things around with ideas I've had. Maybe introducing a head mindflayer calling itself the Lord of Dread! :P We'll see.


Nothing wrong with that idea - when I was trying to explain who the Lords of Dread were last night (the PC's were talking to the Trog spirit i.e. the Aboleth), I mentioned the Kopru, and described them, and the players pretty much said "Oh, like mind flayers then". Which they are, really. At least my players are freaked about entering a city full of creatures with domination powers...

You can still leave in the weird far-real style critters though, they still work with a mind-flayer theme, in fact, possibly even better.

I guess that's the one thing about the Isle of Dread parts of the STAP - they re-use most of the original parts of the X1 adventure, but if none of you players know anything about that, you may as well change it up to make it work better for you all... Kind of like those little gliding ewok-dudes - maybe fine before ewoks actually existed, but use with care now in case you make them a comical part of your game...


I haven't run it yet but I have completely stolen the whole concept for my 4E FR campaign.

When I first read this I thought it was one of the best ideas for an adventure site of all time. Sleeping, petrified aboleth plus a choice between the lesser of two evils: what's not to like?

It's on of my favourite Dungeon adventures of all time. Props to the author.

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