paizo.com Recent Posts in Darkness spell, anyone read its description?paizo.com Recent Posts in Darkness spell, anyone read its description?2012-11-15T22:05:09Z2012-11-15T22:05:09ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?Purple Dragon Knighthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#352009-07-11T03:51:48Z2009-07-11T03:51:48Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Xuttah wrote:</div><blockquote> I was poking around the Beta spell lists today and I noticed that Continual Light is not only Sor/Wiz 2 but Cleric 3 as well. Does this mean an everburning torch created by a cleric is unaffected by the Darkness spell? </blockquote><p>Dispelling or countering refers to two things: dispel magic and counterspells, respectively. The part of the spell providing direction on dispels and counterspells is a source of confusion for many, it seems.
<p>As per Beta:</p>
<p>1. Any type of light brought within the darkness spell brightens it up to the extent of its light radius.</p>
<p>2. Any •magical• light brought within the deeper darkness spell brightens it up to the extent of its light radius.</p>
<p>In short, magical light always win. [1]</p>
<p>The final PRPG will be different though, so don't get comfortable with this easy-to-follow mantra of mine... :)</p>
<p>[1] The wording of the daylight spell turns the whole system on its head though, but Jason already told us that Daylight has been fixed in the final version...</p>Xuttah wrote:I was poking around the Beta spell lists today and I noticed that Continual Light is not only Sor/Wiz 2 but Cleric 3 as well. Does this mean an everburning torch created by a cleric is unaffected by the Darkness spell?
Dispelling or countering refers to two things: dispel magic and counterspells, respectively. The part of the spell providing direction on dispels and counterspells is a source of confusion for many, it seems. As per Beta:
1. Any type of light brought within the...Purple Dragon Knight2009-07-11T03:51:48ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?Xuttahhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#342009-07-10T18:37:26Z2009-07-10T18:37:26Z<p>I was poking around the Beta spell lists today and I noticed that Continual Light is not only Sor/Wiz 2 but Cleric 3 as well. Does this mean an everburning torch created by a cleric is unaffected by the Darkness spell?</p>I was poking around the Beta spell lists today and I noticed that Continual Light is not only Sor/Wiz 2 but Cleric 3 as well. Does this mean an everburning torch created by a cleric is unaffected by the Darkness spell?Xuttah2009-07-10T18:37:26ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?lastknightlefthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#332009-06-11T18:39:51Z2009-06-11T18:39:39Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">lastknightleft wrote:</div><blockquote> drow excluded </blockquote><p>I don't think anyone was listening when I stated this, I figure that drow with their surface wars would develop it as a weapon. But I've seen it on other creatures from the underdark as an SLA etc. and that's what I'm talking about. Now I understand what your saying that it's an easy fix and I already said I'd fix it. but I'd rather fix the spell than fix the race.lastknightleft wrote:drow excluded
I don't think anyone was listening when I stated this, I figure that drow with their surface wars would develop it as a weapon. But I've seen it on other creatures from the underdark as an SLA etc. and that's what I'm talking about. Now I understand what your saying that it's an easy fix and I already said I'd fix it. but I'd rather fix the spell than fix the race.lastknightleft2009-06-11T18:39:39ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?Sean K Reynolds (Contributor)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#322009-06-11T17:58:46Z2009-06-11T17:58:46Z<p>You could always give drow a feat that upgrades their <i>darkness</i> SLA to <i>deeper darkness</i>....</p>You could always give drow a feat that upgrades their darkness SLA to deeper darkness....Sean K Reynolds (Contributor)2009-06-11T17:58:46ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?Purple Dragon Knighthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#312009-06-11T16:34:40Z2009-06-11T16:34:40Z<p>Perhaps drow developed a darkness ability in their fight against the surface elves? I don't really recall drow using darkness vs. dwarves...</p>
<p>The truth of the matter is that yes, they were developed with the idea of keeping big nasty surface adventurers away from their VAULT... :P</p>
<p>Also, the new darkness system gives a real advantage to devils with their See in Darkness ability... before, with the shadowy illumination crap... their ability wasn't really relevant...</p>
<p>(btw: does polymorph allows• one to transform into an evil outsider, and if so, is "See in Darkness" one of the listed powers you can get? DHTBIFOM right now... :P)</p>
<p>•I think it only allows you to replicate beast shape, elemental body, plant shape, giant form and form of the dragon, but I'm not sure...</p>Perhaps drow developed a darkness ability in their fight against the surface elves? I don't really recall drow using darkness vs. dwarves...
The truth of the matter is that yes, they were developed with the idea of keeping big nasty surface adventurers away from their VAULT... :P
Also, the new darkness system gives a real advantage to devils with their See in Darkness ability... before, with the shadowy illumination crap... their ability wasn't really relevant...
(btw: does polymorph...Purple Dragon Knight2009-06-11T16:34:40ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?Xaaon of Xen'Drikhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#302009-06-11T00:17:05Z2009-06-11T00:17:04Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">lastknightleft wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Sean K Reynolds wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
<p>Clarify, please? Do you mean darkvision?</blockquote><p>Yes, yes I do.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Sean K Reynolds wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Oh no, the new version of the game invalidates something written in a novel 20 years ago for a version of the game written 20 years ago! :) This just in: there's no infravision in the Pathfinder RPG!
<br />
</blockquote><p>No but darkvision was a close enough representation of the ability, similar enough by my standards that it never bothered me, but darkness not being something that the drow can use to devastating effect against the dwarves, not so impressive and not close enough in my opinion. No
</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Sean K Reynolds wrote:</div><blockquote> That's an advantage for darkvision users, as I pointed out earlier in this thread. Creatures with darkvision LOVE things that can make <i>darkness</i>. </blockquote><p>I don't really think that's as true, I think creatures with darkvision love darkness against creatures without darkvision. Which in their habitats isn't going to be as effective. Now goblins and Orcs, I see what you're saying. but creatures in the underdark that never see the light of day (drow excluded because their constant war with the surface world and raids) to them darkness is practically useless because they'll encounter something that doesn't have darkvision maybe once in their lifetime. Now for game reasons obviously that'll be when they fight PCs and boy then will it come in handy, but really, a lifetime of experience would've gotten them used to not even bothering to use darkness so why on earth would they even think to use it the one time they encounter something. Granted you could say it's just an ability they've developed that they'll use without thinking anytime they encounter light because they shun it so. I still think it's strange that they would've developed the ability at all seeing as how it's an environmentaly useless ability, like an appendix (sp? I'm talking of course about the organ). You don't run into battle thinking, I think I'll start off using my appendix.
<p>It's not a game breaker, I still... </blockquote><p>So, perhaps the drow have a special darkness...True Darkness...an area of pure darkness...
<p>Will we be able to buy an Everdark Hcort?</p>lastknightleft wrote:Sean K Reynolds wrote:Clarify, please? Do you mean darkvision?
Yes, yes I do. Sean K Reynolds wrote:Oh no, the new version of the game invalidates something written in a novel 20 years ago for a version of the game written 20 years ago! :) This just in: there's no infravision in the Pathfinder RPG!
No but darkvision was a close enough representation of the ability, similar enough by my standards that it never bothered me, but darkness not being something that the drow...Xaaon of Xen'Drik2009-06-11T00:17:04ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?Asgetrionhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#292009-06-10T23:25:54Z2009-06-10T23:25:54Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Set wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">The Wraith wrote:</div><blockquote><p> News from the Cleric Preview !!!</p>
<p>"The light spells themselves got a bit of an overhaul. There are now four levels of illumination: darkness, dim light, normal light, and bright light. Spells like light shed normal light in a set radius and increase the light level by one step in a set area beyond that. Spells like darkness reduce the light level in a set radius. Deeper darkness can actually make an area so dark that not even darkvision can penetrate it." </blockquote><p>That's pretty darn spiffy. I'll have to see it in play, but it sounds like a decent way of addressing the various light / darkness issues without kludges like 'shadowy illumination.'
<p></blockquote><p>I think this is a clear and elegant solution to the Light/Darkness issue. :)Set wrote:The Wraith wrote:News from the Cleric Preview !!!
"The light spells themselves got a bit of an overhaul. There are now four levels of illumination: darkness, dim light, normal light, and bright light. Spells like light shed normal light in a set radius and increase the light level by one step in a set area beyond that. Spells like darkness reduce the light level in a set radius. Deeper darkness can actually make an area so dark that not even darkvision can penetrate it."
That's...Asgetrion2009-06-10T23:25:54ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?lastknightlefthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#282009-06-10T21:10:05Z2009-06-10T21:10:05Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Sean K Reynolds wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
<p>Clarify, please? Do you mean darkvision?</blockquote><p>Yes, yes I do.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Sean K Reynolds wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Oh no, the new version of the game invalidates something written in a novel 20 years ago for a version of the game written 20 years ago! :) This just in: there's no infravision in the Pathfinder RPG!
<br />
</blockquote><p>No but darkvision was a close enough representation of the ability, similar enough by my standards that it never bothered me, but darkness not being something that the drow can use to devastating effect against the dwarves, not so impressive and not close enough in my opinion. No
</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Sean K Reynolds wrote:</div><blockquote> That's an advantage for darkvision users, as I pointed out earlier in this thread. Creatures with darkvision LOVE things that can make <i>darkness</i>. </blockquote><p>I don't really think that's as true, I think creatures with darkvision love darkness against creatures without darkvision. Which in their habitats isn't going to be as effective. Now goblins and Orcs, I see what you're saying. but creatures in the underdark that never see the light of day (drow excluded because their constant war with the surface world and raids) to them darkness is practically useless because they'll encounter something that doesn't have darkvision maybe once in their lifetime. Now for game reasons obviously that'll be when they fight PCs and boy then will it come in handy, but really, a lifetime of experience would've gotten them used to not even bothering to use darkness so why on earth would they even think to use it the one time they encounter something. Granted you could say it's just an ability they've developed that they'll use without thinking anytime they encounter light because they shun it so. I still think it's strange that they would've developed the ability at all seeing as how it's an environmentaly useless ability, like an appendix (sp? I'm talking of course about the organ). You don't run into battle thinking, I think I'll start off using my appendix.
<p>It's not a game breaker, I still like PRPG, I just don't like darkness in it's current form. Of course in my games darkness never created Shadowy illumination either, so I guess I didn't like 3.5s version either. Still I think that unless it's been dropped in level as a spell, it's been turned into something I'm not happy with.</p>Sean K Reynolds wrote:Clarify, please? Do you mean darkvision?
Yes, yes I do. Sean K Reynolds wrote:Oh no, the new version of the game invalidates something written in a novel 20 years ago for a version of the game written 20 years ago! :) This just in: there's no infravision in the Pathfinder RPG!
No but darkvision was a close enough representation of the ability, similar enough by my standards that it never bothered me, but darkness not being something that the drow can use to devastating...lastknightleft2009-06-10T21:10:05ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?Sean K Reynolds (Contributor)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#272009-06-10T20:23:07Z2009-06-10T20:23:06Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">lastknightleft wrote:</div><blockquote> Well I'm terribly dissapointed with the new version of darkness, He knew going in that he wouldn't please everybody, but I'm sorry, I think that the fact that you need deeper darkness to cancel an ability given for free at first level.</blockquote><p>Clarify, please? Do you mean darkvision?
<div class="messageboard-quotee">lastknightleft wrote:</div><blockquote>Then there's also the breaking of literary traditions from books like Streams of Silver.</blockquote><p>Oh no, the new version of the game invalidates something written in a novel 20 years ago for a version of the game written 20 years ago! :) This just in: there's no infravision in the Pathfinder RPG!
<div class="messageboard-quotee">lastknightleft wrote:</div><blockquote>Yipee (you can tell from the preview that darkness doesn't cancel darkvision, lame).</blockquote><p>That's an advantage for darkvision users, as I pointed out earlier in this thread. Creatures with darkvision LOVE things that can make <i>darkness</i>.lastknightleft wrote:Well I'm terribly dissapointed with the new version of darkness, He knew going in that he wouldn't please everybody, but I'm sorry, I think that the fact that you need deeper darkness to cancel an ability given for free at first level.
Clarify, please? Do you mean darkvision? lastknightleft wrote:Then there's also the breaking of literary traditions from books like Streams of Silver.
Oh no, the new version of the game invalidates something written in a novel 20 years...Sean K Reynolds (Contributor)2009-06-10T20:23:06ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?lastknightlefthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#262009-06-10T13:51:26Z2009-06-10T13:51:25Z<p>Well I'm terribly dissapointed with the new version of darkness, He knew going in that he wouldn't please everybody, but I'm sorry, I think that the fact that you need deeper darkness to cancel an ability given for free at first level. Then there's also the breaking of literary traditions from books like Streams of Silver. Oh well, before the final is released and I already have a houserule. Yipee (you can tell from the preview that darkness doesn't cancel darkvision, lame).</p>Well I'm terribly dissapointed with the new version of darkness, He knew going in that he wouldn't please everybody, but I'm sorry, I think that the fact that you need deeper darkness to cancel an ability given for free at first level. Then there's also the breaking of literary traditions from books like Streams of Silver. Oh well, before the final is released and I already have a houserule. Yipee (you can tell from the preview that darkness doesn't cancel darkvision, lame).lastknightleft2009-06-10T13:51:25ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?Sethttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#252009-06-10T12:46:47Z2009-06-10T12:46:47Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">The Wraith wrote:</div><blockquote><p> News from the Cleric Preview !!!</p>
<p>"The light spells themselves got a bit of an overhaul. There are now four levels of illumination: darkness, dim light, normal light, and bright light. Spells like light shed normal light in a set radius and increase the light level by one step in a set area beyond that. Spells like darkness reduce the light level in a set radius. Deeper darkness can actually make an area so dark that not even darkvision can penetrate it." </blockquote><p>That's pretty darn spiffy. I'll have to see it in play, but it sounds like a decent way of addressing the various light / darkness issues without kludges like 'shadowy illumination.'The Wraith wrote:News from the Cleric Preview !!!
"The light spells themselves got a bit of an overhaul. There are now four levels of illumination: darkness, dim light, normal light, and bright light. Spells like light shed normal light in a set radius and increase the light level by one step in a set area beyond that. Spells like darkness reduce the light level in a set radius. Deeper darkness can actually make an area so dark that not even darkvision can penetrate it."
That's pretty darn...Set2009-06-10T12:46:47ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?The Wraithhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#242009-06-10T08:44:51Z2009-06-10T08:44:50Z<p>News from the Cleric Preview !!!</p>
<p>"The light spells themselves got a bit of an overhaul. There are now four levels of illumination: darkness, dim light, normal light, and bright light. Spells like light shed normal light in a set radius and increase the light level by one step in a set area beyond that. Spells like darkness reduce the light level in a set radius. Deeper darkness can actually make an area so dark that not even darkvision can penetrate it."</p>News from the Cleric Preview !!!
"The light spells themselves got a bit of an overhaul. There are now four levels of illumination: darkness, dim light, normal light, and bright light. Spells like light shed normal light in a set radius and increase the light level by one step in a set area beyond that. Spells like darkness reduce the light level in a set radius. Deeper darkness can actually make an area so dark that not even darkvision can penetrate it."The Wraith2009-06-10T08:44:50ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?Xuttahhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#232009-06-10T04:32:51Z2009-06-10T04:32:51Z<p>Very helpful. They didn't get to that part of the adventure tonight, but at least I have an answer for when the do. Thanks! :)</p>Very helpful. They didn't get to that part of the adventure tonight, but at least I have an answer for when the do. Thanks! :)Xuttah2009-06-10T04:32:51ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?DM_Blakehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#222009-06-09T22:52:24Z2009-06-09T22:52:24Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Xuttah wrote:</div><blockquote><p> This spell may be relevant to me in the immediate future. PDK, go 'way! :)</p>
<p>•• spoiler omitted ••
<br />
The Beta wording is:
<br />
"Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) and light spells brought inside the area of darkness can brighten the area, allowing a creature to see normally in the light’s radius."</p>
<p>Does this mean that if the light source is outside of the area of effect that its light does not penetrate the darkness (eg the darkness is centred 20' away from a torch)? If it enters the radius (the person carrying the torch moves into the area of darkness) the darkness is illuminated?</p>
<p>Clear as mud? :)</p>
<p>Of course, posting the final version of Darkness would also solve the problem. :D
<br />
</blockquote><p>If it didn't mean exactly that, then darkness would be useless.
<p>I take the corrected version (per Jason's post way back when in that other thread) to mean that only the light source can dispel the darkness.</p>
<p>If not, you couldn't cast it outdoors during the day because the instant you cast it, more daylight would enter the area (light moves really fast you know) and "brighten the area".</p>
<p>Likewise, you couldn't cast it near a torch or lantern or sunrod or guy with a lightspell, because light from that source would instantly enter the area of the darkness and "brighten the area".</p>
<p>So, I think the intent is, that if there is light in the area at the time of the casting, those light sources are darkened. If there is light outside the area after the darkness spell is cast, including up to the end of its duration, that light cannot "brighten the area" of the darkness. But if a light source of any kind enters the area, it can now "brighten the area" the way it would brighten normal darkness up to the range of the light source.</p>
<p>So if you had a dozen bad guys darken an entire outdoor soccer field at high noon, the darkness would not be dispelled, or brightened, by the sun (unless the sun came down and entered the area of the darkness). If some guy outside lit a torch, it would not dispel or brighten the darkness. If he walked into the darkness, it would brighten only 20' radius (IIRC) and no more. It would not dispel the darkness - if he leaves before the end of the duration, the entire soccer field is dark again. </p>
<p>A human standing inside the darkened soccer field could not see his own hand in front of his face. Nor could he see the sun, or the guy outside with the torch. If the torch guy walked into the darkness, the human inside still could not see the torch (or the torchbearer) until it came within 20', at which time he could see it just like he could see the same guy with the same torch in a normal (non-magical) dark cave. And he could see his hand in front of his face, as long as that torch stays within 20'.</p>
<p>An elf in there could see the torch up to 40' away, but only once it is brought into the darkness where it "brighten the area".</p>
<p>Between the Beta wording, and the Jason clarification, I take it that this is what Jason intended for the Darkness spell.</p>Xuttah wrote:This spell may be relevant to me in the immediate future. PDK, go 'way! :)
** spoiler omitted **
The Beta wording is:
"Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) and light spells brought inside the area of darkness can brighten the area, allowing a creature to see normally in the light’s radius."
Does this mean that if the light source is outside of the area of effect that its light does not penetrate the darkness (eg the darkness is centred 20' away from a...DM_Blake2009-06-09T22:52:24ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?Xuttahhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#212009-06-09T20:01:56Z2009-06-09T20:01:50Z<p>This spell may be relevant to me in the immediate future. PDK, go 'way! :)</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]
<br />
The Beta wording is:
<br />
"Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) and light spells brought inside the area of darkness can brighten the area, allowing a creature to see normally in the light’s radius."</p>
<p>Does this mean that if the light source is outside of the area of effect that its light does not penetrate the darkness (eg the darkness is centred 20' away from a torch)? If it enters the radius (the person carrying the torch moves into the area of darkness) the darkness is illuminated?</p>
<p>Clear as mud? :)</p>
<p>Of course, posting the final version of Darkness would also solve the problem. :D</p>This spell may be relevant to me in the immediate future. PDK, go 'way! :)
[Spoiler omitted]
The Beta wording is:
"Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) and light spells brought inside the area of darkness can brighten the area, allowing a creature to see normally in the light’s radius."
Does this mean that if the light source is outside of the area of effect that its light does not penetrate the darkness (eg the darkness is centred 20' away from a torch)? If it enters...Xuttah2009-06-09T20:01:50ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?Purple Dragon Knighthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#202009-06-08T19:34:22Z2009-06-08T19:34:22Z<p>Why not? it's just going to be priced the same as a magic item providing a constant 9th level spell... (i.e. cloak of the phoenix is 50,000 and allows for the constant use of the third level fly spell... so I will let you guess the price of such an heightened everburning torch... :P )</p>Why not? it's just going to be priced the same as a magic item providing a constant 9th level spell... (i.e. cloak of the phoenix is 50,000 and allows for the constant use of the third level fly spell... so I will let you guess the price of such an heightened everburning torch... :P )Purple Dragon Knight2009-06-08T19:34:22ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?Becketthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#192009-06-07T21:11:23Z2009-06-07T21:11:22Z<p>Will there be an option to buy a heightened Everburning torch in the core book? There should be. It can save a lot of hassle in upper level games. Heighten a Continual Flame spell to 9th Level, and Darkness spells don't work much.</p>Will there be an option to buy a heightened Everburning torch in the core book? There should be. It can save a lot of hassle in upper level games. Heighten a Continual Flame spell to 9th Level, and Darkness spells don't work much.Beckett2009-06-07T21:11:22ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?Purple Dragon Knighthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#182009-06-04T03:07:19Z2009-06-04T03:07:19Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Jason Bulmahn wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Fortunately, all of this has been corrected in the final version of the game...</p>
<p>Jason Bulmahn
<br />
Lead Designer
<br />
Paizo Publishing </blockquote><p>Thanks Jason! :)Jason Bulmahn wrote:Fortunately, all of this has been corrected in the final version of the game...
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Thanks Jason! :)Purple Dragon Knight2009-06-04T03:07:19ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?Asgetrionhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#172009-06-03T18:51:44Z2009-06-03T18:51:43Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">udalrich wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Asgetrion wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Tr0ki, as crmanriq said 'Darkness'-spell now creates an area of "normal" darkness. This means that normal light sources (daylight, torches, lanterns, candles and so on) penetrates it; also, Darkvision works just fine within an area created by the 'Darkness'-spell.
</p>
</blockquote><p>You have to bring the source of the light into the area of effect. I don't think daylight is going to be very useful against this spell.
<p>If it's cast in an area lit by daylight, you need darkvision to see inside it. Most parties don't have their torches lit during the day.</p>
<p></blockquote><p>I meant 'daylight' as in 'natural daylight coming in from windows and open doors', not the spell.udalrich wrote:Asgetrion wrote:Tr0ki, as crmanriq said 'Darkness'-spell now creates an area of "normal" darkness. This means that normal light sources (daylight, torches, lanterns, candles and so on) penetrates it; also, Darkvision works just fine within an area created by the 'Darkness'-spell.
You have to bring the source of the light into the area of effect. I don't think daylight is going to be very useful against this spell. If it's cast in an area lit by daylight, you need darkvision to...Asgetrion2009-06-03T18:51:43ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?Masterhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#162009-06-03T01:49:33Z2009-06-03T01:49:33Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Jason Bulmahn wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Fortunately, all of this has been corrected in the final version of the game...</p>
<p>Jason Bulmahn
<br />
Lead Designer
<br />
Paizo Publishing </blockquote><p>Thanks. I hope so, in the meantime I'll keep using my own home ruled spells. I will decide to use the "official" or keep mine when i see the final version.Jason Bulmahn wrote:Fortunately, all of this has been corrected in the final version of the game...
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Thanks. I hope so, in the meantime I'll keep using my own home ruled spells. I will decide to use the "official" or keep mine when i see the final version.Master2009-06-03T01:49:33ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?Hank Woon (Contributor)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#152009-06-03T01:18:33Z2009-06-03T01:18:33Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Sean K Reynolds wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Replace "tiefling" with "drow" and you have the same situation; I'm just using tieflings as an example because they were in my <i>Bastards of Erebus</i> playtest, and perhaps also because the sample tiefling in the Pathfinder <i>Bestiary</i> is a rogue.... </blockquote><p>True, and those damn bastards kept using that tactic quite effectively!Sean K Reynolds wrote:Replace "tiefling" with "drow" and you have the same situation; I'm just using tieflings as an example because they were in my Bastards of Erebus playtest, and perhaps also because the sample tiefling in the Pathfinder Bestiary is a rogue....
True, and those damn bastards kept using that tactic quite effectively!Hank Woon (Contributor)2009-06-03T01:18:33ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?Jason Bulmahn (Director of Game Design)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#142009-06-03T00:13:30Z2009-06-03T00:13:30Z<p>Fortunately, all of this has been corrected in the final version of the game...</p>
<p>Jason Bulmahn
<br />
Lead Designer
<br />
Paizo Publishing</p>Fortunately, all of this has been corrected in the final version of the game...
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo PublishingJason Bulmahn (Director of Game Design)2009-06-03T00:13:30ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?Purple Dragon Knighthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#132009-06-02T21:23:17Z2009-06-02T21:23:16Z<p>I thought I understood the new version of "darkness" and "deeper darkness" until I read the daylight spell:</p>
<p>"Daylight brought into an area of magical darkness (or vice versa) is
<br />
temporarily negated, so that the otherwise prevailing light conditions
<br />
exist in the overlapping areas of effect."</p>
<p>The darkness spell says this:</p>
<p>"Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) and light spells brought inside the area of darkness can brighten the area, allowing a creature to see normally in the light’s radius."</p>
<p>Therefore, I think the wording of the darkness spell should be changed to "return to prevailing conditions" instead of "brighten the area", if I understand correctly...</p>
<p>O_o</p>I thought I understood the new version of "darkness" and "deeper darkness" until I read the daylight spell:
"Daylight brought into an area of magical darkness (or vice versa) is
temporarily negated, so that the otherwise prevailing light conditions
exist in the overlapping areas of effect."
The darkness spell says this:
"Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) and light spells brought inside the area of darkness can brighten the area, allowing a creature to see normally in...Purple Dragon Knight2009-06-02T21:23:16ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?Majubahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#122009-06-02T20:25:26Z2009-06-02T20:25:26Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Sean K Reynolds wrote:</div><blockquote><p> <i>Darkness</i> works very well for creatures that have darkvision, especially when their opponents do not.
</p>
...and perhaps also because the sample tiefling in the Pathfinder <i>Bestiary</i> is a rogue.... </blockquote><p>•scribbles quickly taking many notes•Sean K Reynolds wrote:Darkness works very well for creatures that have darkvision, especially when their opponents do not.
...and perhaps also because the sample tiefling in the Pathfinder Bestiary is a rogue....
*scribbles quickly taking many notes*Majuba2009-06-02T20:25:26ZRe: Forums: Playtest Reports: Darkness spell, anyone read its description?Sean K Reynolds (Contributor)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jmvl?Darkness-spell-anyone-read-its-description#112009-06-02T18:42:07Z2009-06-02T18:40:48Z<p><i>Darkness</i> works very well for creatures that have darkvision, especially when their opponents do not.</p>
<p>Imagine a group of PCs traveling with light. There is an area of normal illumination, surrounded by an area of dim illumination. And just outside that area of dim illumination is a tiefling with <i>darkness</i> as a spell-like ability. The tiefling uses <i>darkness</i>, and suddenly the PCs are in an island of normal illumination in the middle of actual darkness. Any PC who steps outside the area of normal illumination is blind, unable to see (unless they have darkvision), while the tiefling can see just fine. And if you're blind to an opponent, you're denied your Dexterity bonus to that opponent. Which means that opponent can sneak attack you... again and again and again. Any time the tiefling can separate a party member from the others so that PC is in the dark (say, having the ranged PC hold the light while the melee PC moves ahead to deal with the enemies, or giving the melee character the light so the ranged character can fire normally into the illuminated area), that PC in the dark is very vulnerable.</p>
<p>True, the tiefling can just snipe the PCs from 60 feet away, comfortable in the darkness while the PCs move around in the light, but at that range they can't sneak attack.</p>
<p><i>Darkness</i> is the best friend of a creature with darkvision; you can see just fine, your opponent has a 50% miss chance. And if you have sneak attack, it's even better for you.</p>
<p>Replace "tiefling" with "drow" and you have the same situation; I'm just using tieflings as an example because they were in my <i>Bastards of Erebus</i> playtest, and perhaps also because the sample tiefling in the Pathfinder <i>Bestiary</i> is a rogue....</p>Darkness works very well for creatures that have darkvision, especially when their opponents do not.
Imagine a group of PCs traveling with light. There is an area of normal illumination, surrounded by an area of dim illumination. And just outside that area of dim illumination is a tiefling with darkness as a spell-like ability. The tiefling uses darkness, and suddenly the PCs are in an island of normal illumination in the middle of actual darkness. Any PC who steps outside the area of normal...Sean K Reynolds (Contributor)2009-06-02T18:40:48Z