RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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From the huckster-blog:
If you're wearing your Pathfinder Society faction T-shirt while playing an official Pathfinder Society Scenario, you're allowed to reroll one die roll per scenario! (You must announce that you are using your reroll before the GM has announced the result of your previous roll.) Josh tells me that this rule will be codified in the updated version of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play which will be released at Gen Con this year, but this rule is considered legal and valid right now! (Feel free to point a skeptical GM to this blog as proof!)
Fair enough. If a player brings a copy of the blog with her to my table, I'll allow a re-roll.
So, let's see if I understand how this plays out at my table:
Situation 1: Al is playing a Taldan wizard and rolls damage for a fireball. 7d6 comes up a pathetic 15. Play continues. Al takes off his shirt to reveal a stylish Taldan T-shirt underneath. He announces, "I'm wearing my Taldor shirt and want to reroll my damage from last round." I say, "Sorry, Al. Things have happened since then." He says, "Yes, but you never announced the the result of the roll."
How am I supposed to announce the result of a damage roll? Al said "15 points of damage." Am I supposed to repeat: "15 points of damage." Do I have to announce "And none of the giant spiders have fallen?"
Situation 2: Betty is playing a Qadirian cleric. Her character casts Blindness on an opponent, and he makes his save. Betty announces, "I reroll that save." I ask, "You can't reroll someone else's roll!" "The blog never said that it has to be a roll I made. It's a reroll." "But I've already announced the result!" "You didn't give me a chance to declare a re-roll!" she insists.
How am I supposed to announce the result of an NPC's saving throw? "He rolls a 13." (pause) "That succeeds." Why should the players know what the NPCs roll?
Situation 3a: Cassandra is playing an Andoran rogue. She makes an attack roll and gets a natural 20. She tries for a critical, and rolls a 4. She announces "I'm going to re-roll that critical confirmation." Dwight, a helpful rules lawyer next to her, argues: "No, if you re-roll that attack, you might miss entirely. You can't re-roll just one aspect of the attack, any more than you could re-roll just the low-rolling dice in a damage roll."
Situation 3b: Cassandra rolls a natural 20, and trying to confirm a critical, she rolls a 4. "Tough luck," I say consolingly. She grows hot with anger: "I was going to re-roll that confirmation! Now that you've announced the result, I'm stuck with it! What didn't you give me a chance to announce a re-roll?!"
Situation 3c: Cassandra rolls a natural 20, rolls a 4 to confirm. I say nothing. She announces a re-roll, and gets a 19! After the battle, she's curious to know why her opponent didn't fall down after taking enormous damage from her sneak-attack military pick critical.
"Sorry," says Dwight. "It's a mummy, and undead aren't subject to critical hits." "Then that re-roll doesn't count, because I never should have rolled to confirm a critical in the first place." "That's something you should have realized, before wasting your re-roll like that."
--+--+--
The whole idea of PFS restricting rules materials was to keep things fair: it shouldn't matter which judge you get at a convention; we'd all be ruling the same way on things. So, how do you folks rule on these matters?
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Chris I can tell you I have read Josh's post and it is legal
At my tables I wouldn't allow the first 2 scenarios. They have never come up but from my experience a re-roll pertains to a single die roll made by a player usually a save, an attack roll, or a skill check. Now lets look at the 3rd case the confirmation roll of a crit.
I would allow this in theory.
The case where The player rolls a 4, usually it take a few seconds to tally up the bonuses giving the player ample time to decide.
If they state the total number (die + BAB + Str Mod + Bonuses) they are committing to the roll. If they roll a 4 and ask for a re-roll right away you give it to them
The example of the mummy most of the time the table will correct the player before the confirm is even rolled. If you like to keep the mystery about what the players are fighting you just say it seems to have no additional effect. Play and learn.....
These rules will be codified in v2.0.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I understand that, Josh; thank you.
But a promise that there will be official guidelines in August doesn't help me make rulings between now and then.
So I'm asking other PFS DMs to give me some guidance here. The rule, as simple as it sounds, has all sorts of , er, gray areas, rolled into it. For example:
Situation 4: Edie is playing a Cheliaxian sorcerer who gets hit with a 5d6 lightning bolt, which does a whopping 21 points of damage. If the sorcerer takes full damage, she's a goner. Edie rolls a 2 for her saving throw, and there's an awkward moment of silence at the table. Fast-thinking Fred, sitting next to Edie, whips off his Cheliax shirt and hands it to her. "Put this on, and re-roll the save," he tells her.
Would you consider that legal? (Or, pursuant to Situation 2, did Fred even need to hand Edie his shirt? Could he have called for a re-roll himself?)
Hmmm. I guess I should understand this too, since I'm sure it will come up at Paizocon. Can someone link to the official wording (i.e. from Josh)?
From the text in the OP's post I'd interpret it as:
1) The player must wear the shirt for the entire scenario. "If you're wearing your Pathfinder Society faction T-shirt while playing an official Pathfinder Society Scenario" says to me that you're wearing the shirt...not switching it on and off as needed.
2) You can only reroll a single die. "...you're allowed to reroll one die roll per scenario!" sounds like a single die to me...but maybe it's a whole roll, even if that's a multi-die damage roll? When I think of rerolls it's usually a d20 roll - though, when I'm nice, I sometimes let players in my home games reroll 1s for healing or offer them a GM-reroll-keep-result-even-if-worse on hit dice at level-up.
3) It only applies to a die (or dice) that they themselves rolled and it's too late once play has passed on. "You must announce that you are using your reroll before the GM has announced the result of your previous roll.)" - I can't interpret that to mean they get to demand the reroll of an NPC saving throw.
I'd say many of Chris' hypothetical scenarios should result in a little eye-roll and a, "No, silly, that's not how it works!" from the GM. :) But, it would be good to hear the groups' consensus on how the thing is supposed to work.
M
PS - You won't hear me criticizing Paizo for this one (because I think it's kind of fun and a good way to get people to visibly support PFS) but, if it was Hasbro (or do folks say Ha$bro?) I can imagine people thinking it was just a crass ploy to sell more t-shirts ;)
YOU must wear the shirt.
You cannot give the shirt to someone else.
You can only re-roll attack or save rolls made by YOU before the result is determined by anyone.
You CANNOT re-roll a GM's roll.
You CANNOT re-roll someone else's roll.
You CANNOT re-roll damage rolls.
You can only re-roll one roll per scenario period.
I hope that helps bridge the gap between now and August.
Clear enough for me. Thanks!
M
Once the rules are updated for v2.0 there will be either a stickied thread on these boards or a FAQ at paizo.com/pathfindersociety to keep all rules questions in a central location. I agree that the way it's being done right now is chaotic at best--I also made it a strong point to call this season 0 and our playtest season so that I could make such mistakes and learn from them. :-)
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Once the rules are updated for v2.0 there will be either a stickied thread on these boards or a FAQ at paizo.com/pathfindersociety to keep all rules questions in a central location. I agree that the way it's being done right now is chaotic at best--I also made it a strong point to call this season 0 and our playtest season so that I could make such mistakes and learn from them. :-)
Understood. FWIW, I think you're doing a great job with the resources you have.
One thing I hope you'll consider, however ...
YOU must wear the shirt.
You cannot give the shirt to someone else.
You CANNOT re-roll someone else's roll.
You can only re-roll one roll per scenario period.
In the spirit of good will between players, I see no harm in shirt-wearing Player One offering to transfer his re-roll to shirtless Player Two of the same faction.
With the possiblity of players having multiple characters but wearing only one t-shirt on the day, and having to play their secondary character of a different faction because a high tier table wasn't available, it would be a shame for that t-shirt to go un-used.
Similarly, as I've mentioned in previous threads, I've started the tradition of wearing a random faction t-shirt each day at conventions I GM. I've been offering my t-shirt re-roll, once per scenario, to the first player of that faction who wishes to claim it.
a) players enjoy "I wonder what faction he'll be wearing today?"
b) it promotes faction t-shirts among new players who might not be aware of them;
c) often a re-roll can be a life-saver - saving throw, stabilisation check etc - I try to avoid TPKs where possible;
d) as I only GM (x25 scenarios), I rarely play (x2 scenarios) it's the only way I'd get to use my own t-shirts during play (and I have all five faction shirts).
Therefore, I think it should be relaxed that a player (or GM) may offer to transfer their t-shirt re-roll to another player of the same faction who hasn't already used a re-roll.
You CANNOT re-roll damage rolls.
I'm a little curious on the reasons behind this restriction? I'm guessing because damage rolls often include multiple dice. Maybe the guidelines could state (if they don't already) "only applies to one dice". Because if you roll a 1 on damage, or healing, when you really need it, why wouldn't you want to re-roll that? Or is it because the outcome is already obvious (eg fails the "before the result is determined by anyone" clause).
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I'm guessing the intention is you can only reroll d20 rolls.
Yeah, that was my guess too, though personally, I don't see the harm in it? I've allowed a player to use a faction t-shirt to re-roll a CLW roll of 1 to get a character back on their feet .. it seemed an appropriate use at the time, though by the book I guess I shouldn't have.
Damage isn't done in d20s anymore. :)
or ever?
[threadjack] in 3.0 a 20th level monk and in 3.5 a highly optimized monk/initiate of the draconic mysteries used a d20 for damage.[/treadjack]
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my guess would be for those meta gamers who have memorized the monster manual, and can guestimate the HP of [insert monster name here] so they can't use OOC knowledge as much of an influance on their die rolls Example:
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Once the rules are updated for v2.0 there will be either a stickied thread on these boards or a FAQ at paizo.com/pathfindersociety to keep all rules questions in a central location. I agree that the way it's being done right now is chaotic at best--I also made it a strong point to call this season 0 and our playtest season so that I could make such mistakes and learn from them. :-)
Bah, hang all the rules lawyers and just have some fun!
Sorry, but rules lawyers make the game so much less fun.
Venture-Lieutenant, Michigan—Detroit
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You can only re-roll attack or save rolls made by YOU before the result is determined by anyone.
So, you cannot re-roll skill checks. I know it's not a poll, but I'll add my 2 cents in and say I think it should apply to any d20 roll -- skill, ability, and caster level checks included.