Sustaining the hobby - how do we get more people to become gamers?


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Dark Archive

Saw this on another thread.

Disenchanter wrote:

We just need a "pro" role playing circuit so it can be televised.

That'll kick start the hobby.


Shame they can't make a webisodes advertising the hobby.

Not just d&d but the other games say a short sketch or even a web comic with a story and have it show peoeple around the table talking about it and their options perhaps even have the start showing an opening sequence that leads into the show's current game arc.

Maybe thats too much but would it help if there was a series ala dungeons and dragons from the 80's that helped introduce people back to the hobby and give them a reason to want to run and play it?


How do we get more people to become gamers?

More threads like this.

The Exchange

Somebody upthread said "the family that slays together stays together".

I couldn't agree more, my lovely wife plays, I have 3 kids (6,4,1) and I just ran my oldest thru his first adventure (homemade I call 'The Carrot Goblins'), my 4yr old can name most of the monsters in the MM, and my 1yr old giggles whenever we say "natural 20!". I spent alot of time "dumbing" down the rules (3.5) for this and renaming some skills, search=find, diplomacy=talk me into it, and redefining the way combat works to be less brutal. He had the time of his life, his little sister is begging to play, and our neighbors kids want in on it too!

So what I wound up with is a bi-weekly saturday play dat with 4 kids who love the time spent with them, I'm gonna need more JR adventures... maybe "The Pixie Pie Theif"?

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

Moorluck wrote:

Somebody upthread said "the family that slays together stays together".

I couldn't agree more, my lovely wife plays, I have 3 kids (6,4,1) and I just ran my oldest thru his first adventure (homemade I call 'The Carrot Goblins'), my 4yr old can name most of the monsters in the MM, and my 1yr old giggles whenever we say "natural 20!". I spent alot of time "dumbing" down the rules (3.5) for this and renaming some skills, search=find, diplomacy=talk me into it, and redefining the way combat works to be less brutal. He had the time of his life, his little sister is begging to play, and our neighbors kids want in on it too!

So what I wound up with is a bi-weekly saturday play dat with 4 kids who love the time spent with them, I'm gonna need more JR adventures... maybe "The Pixie Pie Theif"?

Have you tried 'Into the Haunted Forest'? It's quite a fun one for kids.

The Exchange

Any chance you'd know where I can snag a copy?

I dug through my stuff and found "Rahasia", that should be good for a few laughs too.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

Moorluck wrote:

Any chance you'd know where I can snag a copy?

I dug through my stuff and found "Rahasia", that should be good for a few laughs too.

I edited in the link above.

The Exchange

*red faced* Thanks, guess I shoulda known that one. Consider it ordered from our fine friends here. *still red faced*


I have to say that when I was a kid it was the Red Box that got me into D&D- my parents were not gamers, but they thought that buying it for me would be a good way to help me improve my reading skills (I still remember the moment when I asked my mom what a melee was, and learned how to pronounce it correctly.)

A few years back I bought one of the basic starter sets for 3.5 as a present for one of my player's kids, and cracked it open to take a look at what it was like- have to say that I was disappointed with it. The Red Box really seemed more elegant by comparison.

Hook 'em early, and you'll have them for life.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

David Witanowski wrote:

I have to say that when I was a kid it was the Red Box that got me into D&D- my parents were not gamers, but they thought that buying it for me would be a good way to help me improve my reading skills (I still remember the moment when I asked my mom what a melee was, and learned how to pronounce it correctly.)

A few years back I bought one of the basic starter sets for 3.5 as a present for one of my player's kids, and cracked it open to take a look at what it was like- have to say that I was disappointed with it. The Red Box really seemed more elegant by comparison.

Hook 'em early, and you'll have them for life.

There's been a lot of love for the red box on these boards. I still think of the solo adventure in it -- practically a 'choose your own adventure' -- as my first dungeon.


Moorluck wrote:
I couldn't agree more, my lovely wife plays, I have 3 kids (6,4,1) and I just ran my oldest thru his first adventure (homemade I call 'The Carrot Goblins'), my 4yr old can name most of the monsters in the MM, and my 1yr old giggles whenever we say "natural 20!". I spent alot of time "dumbing" down the rules (3.5) for this and renaming some skills, search=find, diplomacy=talk me into it, and redefining the way combat works to be less brutal.

You might want to check out this thread for kid friendly games.

Scarab Sages

CourtFool wrote:
Moorluck wrote:
I couldn't agree more, my lovely wife plays, I have 3 kids (6,4,1) and I just ran my oldest thru his first adventure (homemade I call 'The Carrot Goblins'), my 4yr old can name most of the monsters in the MM, and my 1yr old giggles whenever we say "natural 20!". I spent alot of time "dumbing" down the rules (3.5) for this and renaming some skills, search=find, diplomacy=talk me into it, and redefining the way combat works to be less brutal.
You might want to check out this thread for kid friendly games.

Exactly! Get your kids into Fighting Fantasty books that were started by Steve Jackson and Ian Livingston.

Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks

A time back there was a release of some of the old books into a variant of OLG. I started reading these books when I was around 7 or 8.


If you want to attract the 12-24 year old male population you could always try the White Wolf model. fill your books with random and gratuitous shots of bare nipples and uncovered butts. I feel like a dirty old man every time I look through an Exalted book.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

Convert of Emperor Sebastian wrote:
If you want to attract the 12-24 year old male population you could always try the White Wolf model. fill your books with random and gratuitous shots of bare nipples and uncovered butts. I feel like a dirty old man every time I look through an Exalted book.

12-24?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Back when I lived on the east coast I ran a weekly, introductory-to-D&D game for new players at a place called Sarge's Comics (shameless plug) that had a gaming room. We actually had quite a few kids in the 12-15 age range show up. The parents liked it because it gave them a safe place to leave their kids for a few hours and everybody usually had a good time.


I think President Obama should give a speech telling eveyone to play RPGs. This will surely increase the number of people in the hobby.

The russian leaders, and the Iranian leaders should also tell their people to play RPGs.

This would probably give the greatest impact on creating new gamers.

Second, celebrity endorsements would keep the ball rolling, by selling new products.

Anything less than this is just a shot in the dark.


Nasty Pajamas wrote:
The russian leaders, and the Iranian leaders should also tell their people to play RPGs.

RPGs, the opiate of the masses.


Can you just imagine state sponsored 4e?

Liberty's Edge

Convert of Emperor Sebastian wrote:
If you want to attract the 12-24 year old male population you could always try the White Wolf model. fill your books with random and gratuitous shots of bare nipples and uncovered butts. I feel like a dirty old man every time I look through an Exalted book.

You're not a dirty, old man?

Scarab Sages

Step 1: Have kids
Step 2: Introduce kids to Role-playing at an early age...(6 or so)
Step 3: When kids are in Elementary school, have kids recruit other kids (make sure to get parent's permission)
Step 4: Run games for kids...

Wooo...new people in hobby...

When recruiting kids...let parents know that it's not a satanic game, and that it promotes reading, and creativity.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Xaaon of Xen'Drik wrote:


Step 1: Have kids
Step 2: Introduce kids to Role-playing at an early age...(6 or so)
Step 3: When kids are in Elementary school, have kids recruit other kids (make sure to get parent's permission)
Step 4: Run games for kids...

Step 5: Give kids sporty armbands, uniforms and a theme song written by David Gilmour or Mark Knopfler

Step 6: Start a gaming colony in the middle of the jungle
Step 7: throw a huge bash, serve Kool-Aid and wait for the comet to come and take you to Oerth, Abeir-Toril, Krynn or the gameworld of your choosing
Step 8: Profit!


Having kids won't be enough. Become foster parents, so that other kids are brought into the home, taught how to play, and later released back into the wild.

Liberty's Edge

Xaaon of Xen'Drik wrote:

Step 1: Have kids

Step 2: Introduce kids to Role-playing at an early age...(6 or so)
Step 3: When kids are in Elementary school, have kids recruit other kids (make sure to get parent's permission)
Step 4: Run games for kids...

Wooo...new people in hobby...

When recruiting kids...let parents know that it's not a satanic game, and that it promotes reading, and creativity.

1.) Check!

2.) Check!
3.) Check!
4.) In process

Sub-note.) Amen, brotha!


Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
Having kids won't be enough. Become foster parents, so that other kids are brought into the home, taught how to play, and later released back into the wild.

Hell, you would not even have to be a foster parent. Be a Big Brother or Big Sister.


Lilith wrote:
Don't forget the gateway drugs of the gaming world - CCGs and video games. If you know somebody that likes a card game, but hasn't played a tabletop game, use that to draw them in. Same with video games. If they like a particular setting, like the obvious WoW or the less-obvious Guild Wars, Halo, GTA or a more classic setting like Metroid, use that as well.

Indeed. I was reading a thread on another message board about "How did you get into D&D?" and I was surprised how many people were drawn in by playing Baldur's Gate I/II and Neverwinter Nights I/II (not to mention Knights of the Old Republic I/II for d20 gaming).

Paizo folks -- I hereby order you to start work on a game that'll be twice as good as the Baldur's Gate saga. Drop whatever you're doing! Don't worry; Lisa told me it was O.K.

Sovereign Court

Velcro Zipper wrote:
Back when I lived on the east coast I ran a weekly, introductory-to-D&D game for new players at a place called Sarge's Comics (shameless plug) that had a gaming room. We actually had quite a few kids in the 12-15 age range show up. The parents liked it because it gave them a safe place to leave their kids for a few hours and everybody usually had a good time.

Good store!


Tarren Dei wrote:
Convert of Emperor Sebastian wrote:
If you want to attract the 12-24 year old male population you could always try the White Wolf model. fill your books with random and gratuitous shots of bare nipples and uncovered butts. I feel like a dirty old man every time I look through an Exalted book.
12-24?

That's what the demographics say.


JollyRoger wrote:
Convert of Emperor Sebastian wrote:
If you want to attract the 12-24 year old male population you could always try the White Wolf model. fill your books with random and gratuitous shots of bare nipples and uncovered butts. I feel like a dirty old man every time I look through an Exalted book.
You're not a dirty, old man?

I refuse to accept that I'm old.

Dark Archive

Masika wrote:
There is some merit for rules lite version.

I do think that a introductory box like 'the Adventure Begins' that starts with the basics, a few encounters, a few iconics, using only 'basic' maneuvers, would be a useful thing. There was such a thing for 3E, with Regdar, Lidda, etc. available as a characters pre-generated, and starting out with simple rules and then moving on to options like Turning Undead and the like.

What I think would really work out well would be taking some of the kit material from the Dungeon Delves they ran at GenCon and Origins (15 minute timed dungeon crawls, with pregenerated characters) and have those run at local gaming stores by volunteer DMs.

Those *rocked,* and the characters had very limited selections of options, so as to not be too confusing for a new player. The 15 minute time frame is also perfect for a demonstration game, as someone who walked into the store could sit down and play a quick combat, just to get a feel for the very basic mechanics, without having to invest $50 in books and a couple hours in setup, as well as dedicating an entire evening to gameplay. The demos can be scheduled for a particular evening, once a week, or even once a month, so both grab new eyes, and possibly win over some repeat arrivals, who can then decide whether or not they want to sign up to check out some of the local gaming groups.


Micro20?

Scarab Sages

Set wrote:
Masika wrote:
There is some merit for rules lite version.

I do think that a introductory box like 'the Adventure Begins' that starts with the basics, a few encounters, a few iconics, using only 'basic' maneuvers, would be a useful thing. There was such a thing for 3E, with Regdar, Lidda, etc. available as a characters pre-generated, and starting out with simple rules and then moving on to options like Turning Undead and the like.

What I think would really work out well would be taking some of the kit material from the Dungeon Delves they ran at GenCon and Origins (15 minute timed dungeon crawls, with pregenerated characters) and have those run at local gaming stores by volunteer DMs.

Those *rocked,* and the characters had very limited selections of options, so as to not be too confusing for a new player. The 15 minute time frame is also perfect for a demonstration game, as someone who walked into the store could sit down and play a quick combat, just to get a feel for the very basic mechanics, without having to invest $50 in books and a couple hours in setup, as well as dedicating an entire evening to gameplay. The demos can be scheduled for a particular evening, once a week, or even once a month, so both grab new eyes, and possibly win over some repeat arrivals, who can then decide whether or not they want to sign up to check out some of the local gaming groups.

Good idea...And we already have iconics that are better than Regdar and crew...

"Could set it up as an escape...the dungeon is collapsing, and you have 15 turns to get out...unfortunately there are several groups of kobolds between you and the exit...they're collapsing the dungeon on you, since they have escape tunnels..."

This would give a limited time-frame, plus a sense of urgency...which makes it more exciting.

(Plus the DM could easily "Let the wookiee win")

(The kobolds are little guys, only 2-3 hp each)


I just bug my friends until they try D&D, luckily for me my group of friends really doesn't care about our reputations as we're already shunned. I have in this way recruited two players, not including my nuclear family, and have high hopes for recruiting another one soon. Actually, if you count my gamer friend who hadn't yet played D&D, I have recruited three people.


Yucale wrote:
I just bug my friends until they try D&D, luckily for me my group of friends really doesn't care about our reputations as we're already shunned. I have in this way recruited two players, not including my nuclear family, and have high hopes for recruiting another one soon. Actually, if you count my gamer friend who hadn't yet played D&D, I have recruited three people.

At times I bring my rulebooks to school to study them and also in the hopes that *somebody* might ask about them, becoming a potential recruit.

Liberty's Edge

Yucale wrote:
At times I bring my rulebooks to school to study them and also in the hopes that *somebody* might ask about them, becoming a potential recruit.

I do this at work now. I leave my Pathfinder Core Rulebook on my desk in plain sight, and peruse it whenever I'm on a break. I've had three middle-aged adults who never got into RPGs ask me about it with a great deal of interest.

Dark Archive

The 8th Dwarf wrote:


New players - this is the hardest and where the competition with MMO's and tech.

This. A kid can log on their computer, iphone, game console, etc., 24/7 and engage in, primarily, in (several) combat scenes for an hour or two, then be done. Typically role-playing game, even as combat heavy as DnD or Pathfinder, takes time to a) get someone to GM; b) gather all the necessary folks to game with (time, date, location, etc.); c) run the combats which are painfully slow, abstract, and full of number crunching (that's before the inevitable conflict on the rules); and d) deal with all those personalities and the inevitable crashes.

My gaming group has brought in several noobes into our role-playing sessions. When combat hit during our Pathfinder game, their eyes glazed as the math added up. Same with the (now) fiance of one our our players, who's a WoW player.

EDIT: But back to the OP: Play on role-playing strengths, which is the interaction of people which computers (at this time) can't match. Put the rules more in the background. That's where I think WoD succeeds: combat doesn't dominate the system like it does in Pathfinder and, especially, DnD. (Exception: Exalted.) Board games may also be a good example.

Introduce those curious into the game with set sessions specifically for them. At the local conventions, our local RPGA has an intro table specifically for DnD newbies.

Sovereign Court

Theres a culture of being ashamed of your RP hobby in public, or keeping it hush-hush in your life. I've always made no secret i'm an avid RPer, and I think most RPers would be pleasantly surprised at how many people will show curiousity and interest, if you just talk about it.

I've converted dozens of people since going to university, and no one who has tried DND at my tables has ever said 'actually no this isn't really my thing'- I have a 100% conversion rate thus far.

I agree new players are the hardest to pull in- but if everyone makes an effort, it will have a lovely snowball effect. One of my earliest converts now runs his own games and converts his own new players...

Edit: Heh... Way too much talk of converting I guess. I suppose me and my immediate group of RPer's could be described as a cult though.

And this bizarre elitist attitude of spurning new players, critisizing their choices and belittling their playstyle pisses me off more than anything else. Why try and be the minority in aminority hobby? Why drive new players away from the game you love?

Sorry if these points have already come up, I only skim read the thread.

Silver Crusade

Rules light options. Cheap as well.

A less hostile and insular online image for gamers as a whole.

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