Restrictions of Feeblemind


3.5/d20/OGL


In the description of Feeblemind it states that an intelligence of 1 is roughly what a lizard has and so we decided to find out what else has an intelligence of 1. Well under intelligence in the Players Handbook it states that camels and carrion crawlers also have an intelligence of 1. Well that got us to thinking how the Ranger in the party that had just got Feebleminded would cope and how he could protect his allies while in this state (as stated under the spell description).The agreement that our party came up with, was like the animals with an int. of 1, which only use their natural weapons, the Ranger would also only be able to use his natural weapons (in this case his fists). We figured that a creature that cannot communicate or understand languages, along with many of the other penalties (as stated in the spell description) due to the spells effects, should not be able to use any weapons, for other creature with this int. couldn’t.

My question to GM’s and players for that matter is should the character in question be able to use weapons or any other type of items that are not totally int. based, and if they could, should there be any negatives? I just don’t want this to be to harsh of a restriction, or does this truly fall in line with what other creatures of this int. can handle.


We allow you to swing something in your hand if you have it, but drawing a sword is probably out (you might swing it with the scabbard on). If a shield is strapped on we give you the AC from it (natural instinct is to put something between you and an attack, in this case you got something to absorb with) same with armor. In these cases Muscle Memory is smarter than you and it's a good thing. Might be able to figure out a club on your own (seeing as several animals do use tools).

Unless you got one of the two special feats that let you cast spells with grunts instead of words you aren't casting anything though (an example of this actually coming into play would be a sorcerer with the feat from planar handbook that lets you cast spells using noise instead of words). With those feats a sorcerer would still remember casting in the past and could conceivably do so while enfeeblemind... but tactical choices about the spell are probably out.


Abraham spalding wrote:

<other stuff>

Unless you got one of the two special feats that let you cast spells with grunts instead of words you aren't casting anything though (an example of this actually coming into play would be a sorcerer with the feat from planar handbook that lets you cast spells using noise instead of words). With those feats a sorcerer would still remember casting in the past and could conceivably do so while enfeeblemind... but tactical choices about the spell are probably out.

I believe that the whole point of casting Feeblemind on a foe is to make that foe incapable of casting spells. If one's spellcasting stat falls below 10, one cannot even cast cantrips/orisons. (10 allows access to L 0 spells, 11 allows access to L 1 spells, 12 allows access to L 2 spells, etc.)

Liberty's Edge

Sorcerers wouldn't be able to cast after failing the save vs Feeblemind; Int and Cha get dropped to 1. It also grants a -4 saving throw penalty against arcane casters. A cleric might be able to cast something but surely no sorcerer or wizard would be able to.


Yeah, mind fart I was thinking Feeblemind hit wisdom and intelligence instead of intelligence and charisma...

so take what I said about sorcerer and substitute cleric or druid for it.


Abraham spalding wrote:
Might be able to figure out a club on your own (seeing as several animals do use tools).

Creatures who have an Intelligence score of 2. I'm not a big fan of feeblemind. The intent is, as has been cited, pretty clearly to stop casters (and specifically arcane casters) from doing their thing (casting). But to drop the victim to the intelligence of a lizard is far too crippling, in my opinion. I would, as others have said, allow someone with a melee weapon in hand to continue using it; but drawing another one, or retreiving that weapon once dropped (which would probably happen pretty soon) is right out. The character should not be able to do anything requiring mental faculties greater than a lizard, which basically destroys the character until the spell is removed.

Essentially, I see feeblemind as overkill, a spell designed to disrupt casters which instead ended up completely shutting down anyone. I would change feeblemind to drop all mental stats (Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma) to 8. That way, it works equally well against any spellcaster, but it doesn't really do squat to warrior-types unless they utilize Combat Expertise.


But you miss something with that idea:

The point of the spell isn't to "stop casters" but to "Enstupidife" people.

Also if it now drops Wisdom too, you can really Nerf a fighters already poor Will save, which could be a HUGE benefit to someone, and the spell is now maybe on the the same lines as Touch of Idiocy... not so potent because it can't drop you below 8 (which in some cases might be a raise) but slightly better because it is at ranged... worse because it allows a save throw.

Maybe just putting it at Int 3 and Cha 3?

Personally I think as long as you got at least an Int of 1 you can pick up a stick to swing it... but hey in this case it's entirely up to the group involved...

unless they decide to add a line by line list of things you can and can't do with an INT of 1.


Abraham spalding wrote:

Maybe just putting it at Int 3 and Cha 3?

Personally I think as long as you got at least an Int of 1 you can pick up a stick to swing it... but hey in this case it's entirely up to the group involved...

unless they decide to add a line by line list of things you can and can't do with an INT of 1.

I suppose if a skeleton, which doesn't even have an Intelligence score, can use a sword or a club, so can a feebleminded warrior. I still think the spell is overkill, even with the aim of enstupidifying people. I would still propose Int and Cha 6, rather than 1 or even 3, as that seems plenty feebleminded to me (and of course, if someone actually had a stat lower than this, it would not be raised).


Another question to ponder:

If the fighter takes a face full of Touch of Idiocy and is reduced to an Int of 1 would you still apply the same penalties/restrictions on actions? How about if it was a Int draining undead (or memory moss)?

I think a reduction to 3 would work ok, however that's my 1st and 2nd edition influences shining through I think (back when 3 was the lowest you could go on a stat).

I just don't want to see a case like polar ray and scorching ray where you are generally better off using the lower level spell (in this case it would be between touch of idiocy and feeblemind).

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