Advice for the Hospice - SPOILERS


Curse of the Crimson Throne

Scarab Sages

My party, "ACME Destroyers Local 242", went into the hospice. They actually used stealth and guile, one disguised as a queen's physician and the other as a blood veil victim. It worked well for several minutes. (The rest of the PC were outside waiting for "the signal".) They got a layout of the place and kept the act up for a while until the failed bluff check. Anyway they were able to take out the bad guys and capture the good Dr. They left with the Dr and the party Boy Scout (paladin) bound and gagged. The paladin had been charmed by the Dr. It was a great battle/role-play. The Dr hasn't given them any information. He doesn't see the PC's killing a helpless person.

Anyways... I'm trying to think what to do. They got the people out on the first floor but not the 15 upstairs.

My initial thought it that the bad guys just 'bug out' and torch the place.
But that would really kill a bunch of the story. My other thought is they reinforce their position. (Have the 15 turned into some kind of undead by Rolth.) I am wondering if the Nosferatu would even want to leave in the first place... or would he care...

I'm wondering what to do and would appreciate any ideas.
(I have 3 weeks before the next game to prepare.)

t.i.a.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

You mean they weren't even slightly inerested by the unusual "button" they found on the good doctor. If it were up to me, the 15 Varisians are so much meat if the PC's abandoned them. Take them downstairs and bolster the ranks of teh skeletons and zombies in the temple of Urgathoa. If your party is above average size, they're gonna need the challenge.

Scarab Sages

They got the lift working without the button. Elected to clear the top first... then ended up leaving.

If I have the bad guys bugout, I don't know where to take them.


IMC, the Queen hears what happens and quickly mobilizes some Grey Maidens to surround the place. Knowing that any incriminating evidence is about to be destroyed, the PCs rushed back, snuck in, and dealt with the downstairs. I fudged that the folks downstairs might well be unaware of what happened upstairs for several hours (a shift change doesn't occur or something).

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Has the party been Downstairs? If they don't know about what's underneath there (or, more importantly, if the bad guys think they don't know), they could abandon the upper levels and try to make the PCs think there's nothing else there. Meanwhile, they could fortify their position underground in case the PCs actually do figure out what's going on (which they probably will).

Liberty's Edge

Tamago wrote:
Has the party been Downstairs? If they don't know about what's underneath there (or, more importantly, if the bad guys think they don't know), they could abandon the upper levels and try to make the PCs think there's nothing else there. Meanwhile, they could fortify their position underground in case the PCs actually do figure out what's going on (which they probably will).

I second this advice. If they don't think anyone will come explore the basement that officially doesn't even exist, then they'll just hole up. If the building above is abandoned it probably will be just as good if not a better hiding place for them. If the party doesn't come back in the first few days the place would probably go back to "normal".

The hard part then is to get the party to go back there and find the basement. In that event I would probably seed the ground with a few rumors of Urgathoans doing nefarious things and if you have any PC's with contacts in the underworld, I am sure a certain house

Spoiler:
Arkonan's
would make sure the party were to "stumble" upon it. That's assuming your party doesn't come up with some clever idea on their own, never underestimate a party's ability to find a solution to a situation, of course that means the converse is probably more likely ;)

Other ideas to alert the party to the presence of the dungeon below the hospice...

1) A note (Cheesey and slap in the face use only if all else fails)
2) Cresida's forces may find some hint's (see 1 above however)
3) A note (see 1 above)

Of course, it would be far better if the party came up with some ideas, Locate object, looking for

Spoiler:
Death Head Coffers, perhaps urgathoan holy symbols
or some just bold assumptions on their part can some times save the day.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

Scarab Sages

Yeah, the party knows about the lower levels, they decided to leave anyways. I'm guessing I have the bad guy fortify their position. The party will be back several hours later, so the bad guys will have time to 'get ready' for them.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

The villains might also use a little "spin control", putting out the word that a group of looters attacked the hospice, killing several doctors and patients.

"The Queen's Physicians regret the necessity of shutting down the hospice, but feel it is a necessary precaution. In these troubled times, some seize upon wild rumors or spread treasonous slanders in order to justify their murderous rampages. Such dangerous renegades attempt to shift blame to their innocent victims, in this case, the self-sacrificing healers of the Queen's Physicians. We fear that these treacherous killers may strike again, cloaking their brutality behind a mask of deceit."

Scarab Sages

Sir Wulf - that is a great idea! It keeps the citizens away and lets the bad guys regroup/fortify without having to leave.
A+ sir!

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

This seems like an appropriate thread for this question:

Unlike the above posts, after attacking the Hospice's upper floors, they followed the escaping Dr. 'D' to the lower levels (temple).

Dr.D had warned the temple (so I used the "Temple Under Alert" sidebar on page 51). So the first few rooms were almost abandon...until they got to the Blood Vats room (G8) where almost half the temple was waiting for them. It was a brutal battle, with both sides taking horrible damage/loses.

Question:
If the PCs retreat out of the temple, what will the remainder of the bad-guys do?

All the big-bad-guys remain (Dr. D and Rolth; but both are low on resources. Ramoska and Lady Andaisin have not been discovered yet). Most of the mooks (maidens, doctors, priest) are dead.


Banesfinger wrote:

This seems like an appropriate thread for this question:

Unlike the above posts, after attacking the Hospice's upper floors, they followed the escaping Dr. 'D' to the lower levels (temple).

Dr.D had warned the temple (so I used the "Temple Under Alert" sidebar on page 51). So the first few rooms were almost abandon...until they got to the Blood Vats room (G8) where almost half the temple was waiting for them. It was a brutal battle, with both sides taking horrible damage/loses.

Question:
If the PCs retreat out of the temple, what will the remainder of the bad-guys do?

All the big-bad-guys remain (Dr. D and Rolth; but both are low on resources. Ramoska and Lady Andaisin have not been discovered yet). Most of the mooks (maidens, doctors, priest) are dead.

First would be to raise any corpses to gain some mooks incase the pary returns. Second, perhaps physically fortify the area. If the party doesnt return for several day mabye the temple moves. However, the cult has but a lot of resources into this place, and given the time would probably prefer to rebuild over relocate. After all the cult's primary goal is to continue the plague. I dont see them with any loyalty or even interest in the queen's agenda. Nor is the queen interested in the cult beyond continuing the plague. It's just a means to an end for her. Damning evidence can be spun away.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

My group is currently in the middle of the (alerted) temple in the massive battle of Blood Vats room (G8).

My problem:
When the temple is on alert (which happens very easily - between an invisible escaping Dr D, and alarmed death's breath doors in the first room...), the forces that gather in G8 are a party killer.

5x Plague Doctors, 8x Priests, Dr D, and Rolth makes over an equivalent CR 11 encounter - waaaaaaay out of any APL 6-7 group.

While running/escaping is the only option to prevent PC deaths (that may prove to be just as lethal...), I'm afraid the group will feel so out-matched that they'll never want to return.

How did everyone else handle this?


Banesfinger wrote:

My group is currently in the middle of the (alerted) temple in the massive battle of Blood Vats room (G8).

My problem:
When the temple is on alert (which happens very easily - between an invisible escaping Dr D, and alarmed death's breath doors in the first room...), the forces that gather in G8 are a party killer.

5x Plague Doctors, 8x Priests, Dr D, and Rolth makes over an equivalent CR 11 encounter - waaaaaaay out of any APL 6-7 group.

While running/escaping is the only option to prevent PC deaths (that may prove to be just as lethal...), I'm afraid the group will feel so out-matched that they'll never want to return.

How did everyone else handle this?

Tactics, breaching, defenses.

There's a flask of curses. I think Dr. Davalus has it.

In our party? We had a necromancer cleric of Norgorber.

They gave his zombie the flask. "Run in there and open this flask up," they said. Opened the door. He ran in-- they slammed the door.

Zombie opened the flask and debuffed the entire congregation.

Things like that. Use the doors to their advantage. Force them to fight them at the hot gates. Use cover to their advantage. For a big portion of this fight-- my group had the temple alerted too, but... well, I accidentally added 5 more clerics than there should have been-- my PCs ducked in cover, sniping at clerics. They heavily defended the cleric of Norgorber as his channels wiped out the enemies, dropped AoE spells, and even used an ice storm that Rolth cast as cover and as a kill zone.

Only one PC died, and it's because of really bad That Guy tier level playing. The monk player stood in front of the witch and taunted Rolth. "You're a sad sack of #@$% and your mother #$%@s on #$%@ in #$%@#% you @#$!@#$%!" he shouted, or something like that. Rolth lightning bolted him. The monk evaded, and the witch behind him failed and died.

As to how it would be if the PCs came back, which doesn't quite answer the new question but I refuse to remove it: Encourage your PCs to think outside the box. Suggest that it's not going to be a far stretch to assume the temple knows about them if they know about the temple, and to prepare to fight a lot of concentrated people.

If the PCs use stealth successfully, you could even have them catch the bad guys in a bad position-- maybe they're disassembling the vats for transport, and they have to spend a round picking up weapons. They're not all packed into G8 standing there waiting for the PCs to show up like mobs in a WoW instance-- their motives are to get the hell out of there with all the evidence as soon as possible, and so a lot of small things would be missing.

By alerting the temple and then escaping, to be frank, I would think that if they wait more than a day all of the prisoners are executed and dumped into the rivers or sewers. Or, even on the streets of the Docks district. With the plague going on, no one will think it's even that out of place.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Ice Titan wrote:


There's a flask of curses. I think Dr. Davalus has it.

As I mentioned, Dr. Davalus is still alive, alerted the temple, and is in room G8 aiding in its defense.

I do understand what you mean by think-out-of-the-box. Unfortunately, the group is pretty melee heavy and thus most of their resources are magic weapons & armour.

Ice Titan wrote:


Use the doors to their advantage. Force them to fight them at the hot gates. Use cover to their advantage.

They are - and that's about the only thing that has kept them alive for the first 5 rounds. The Plague Doctors and Priests are dropping like flies as they engage in melee - but the casters (Rolth, Dr D) are cutting the group to peices from behind the wall of their minions.

Ice Titan wrote:


They heavily defended the cleric of Norgorber as his channels wiped out the enemies

Unfortunately, the party's cleric is good, and his channels only heal.

Ice Titan wrote:


...and even used an ice storm that Rolth cast as cover and as a kill zone.

We are using the Pathfinder rules - and the ice storm spell does't mention cover (only a penalty to perception and difficult terrain)...


I didn't mean 'cover' as in 'cover,' but cover as in like, the PCs huddled behind it. Ice storm is a subtle spell. It drops heavy snow and sleet in the description, but doesn't say what those effects do. Check them out in the Environment chapter: As written, Ice storm makes every square of the effect 4 movement = 1 sq, and gives -4 to Perception and ranged attack rolls. It's a nice effect to have between you and a legion of guys shooting crossbow bolts.

But, besides that, this is where a ranged attacker or a monk or high mobility character would come in handy. Without that? Yeah, they get to get torn up. I don't know if they'll make it. It's honestly an extremely tough encounter, and my group barely made it through, even though they played almost perfectly save for that accidental-in-party-PK.


I have been facing similar problems when my party was deliberating whether to continue to the temple or rest.

The decided to enter the temple after having fought Jolistina, the Doctor and the hospice staff in one day.

The Temple was on alert and the ranger almost died from two hits from the trapped doorway (1 crit). Still they continued on and... to my chagrin made short work of the priests/doctors and Rolth in the vat room...

Rolth would have been brought below 0 hp by the ranger, hadn't he been healed at the end of round 1. So as the better part of valor he dim-doored out.

This fight favors ranged combatants.

As I have noticed before, the walkways are hindrances for the defenders rather than advantages. Doctors and priests are primarily melee fighters. And the priests cannot effectively use channeling without killing their own forces.

Rolth was a pushover, cause he missed with his ray of exhaustion in the surprise round. His blindness was saved against by the ranger in round 1.

Maybe the dice were against me or I am a tactical failure. Anyway, the fight didn't turn out the challenge it should have been. I fear for the encounter with the High Priestess.


What Ice Titan is trying to say is to encourage your group to be creative. My party completed the CR 12 encounter in the vat room well, though not without a price. I had one PC down from two well placed criticals, another both blind and deaf from the clerics and everyone else near to unconscious. It was a fun battle. Very difficult, but fun.

What happened afterwards took me a bit by surprise: Two PCs decided to get healed as much as they could and wait in the temple for the others to return. Alone. Thank goodness we were playing this game online because I could not contain my smile as the plan was forming.

Of course they were ambushed! Of course they were captured! And it made the fight with the Nosferatu that much more memorable as a rescue of friends and loved ones rather then 'just another fight'.

What was even more deadly for my group was the battle with the Leukodaemon. His bow is vicious. I had one PC that failed the save against all of the diseases listed in the Contagion spell at one point. I was worried for her.

Long and the short of it is this: the players are resourceful and imaginative. I'd encourage, without so many words, for them to put on their thinking caps and think this one through. Who knows. They may still surprise you. :)

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Well, my group lived through that encounter, but just barely...
Every PC went down (negative hp's) at least once in this encounter.

When things looked "if'y", I decided Rolth had seen enough and D-doored out, cursing the PCs that he would get revenge. Without his heavy artillery, the PCs managed to cut through the mooks and grappled the Dr.

It was a very close (but fun) encounter.

Then the PCs pulled back, healing as they waited for temple reinforcements to arrive. They waited 10 rounds (1 min) and still silence...
Thinking that everyone that was going to show up was already dead, they breathed a sigh of relief and started looting...

As stated in Lady Andaisin's tactics: "...within 4 minutes, she makes a quick patrol of every room in the temple to seek them out..."

That's where we left the session: with the group fully healed, but having no resources left (no spells, rage, etc) and Lady Andaisin giving her "surrender or die" speech. Yikes!

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Sir_Wulf wrote:


"The Queen's Physicians regret the necessity of shutting down the hospice, but feel it is a necessary precaution. In these troubled times, some seize upon wild rumors or spread treasonous slanders in order to justify their murderous rampages. Such dangerous renegades attempt to shift blame to their innocent victims, in this case, the self-sacrificing healers of the Queen's Physicians. We fear that these treacherous killers may strike again, cloaking their brutality behind a mask of deceit."

Would the Queen do this:

The PCs have exited the Hospice/Temple to rest & regroup before attacking again. They have killed most of the Physicians and guards, but in their rush, they have left most of the patients in their beds.

Would the Queen/Villains post the note above (thanks Sir_Wulf) but also slaughter all the patients?
(This makes the PCs seem worse, PLUS it gets rid of any potential witnesses to the physician's experiments or the heroe's good deeds).


Banesfinger wrote:
Sir_Wulf wrote:


"The Queen's Physicians regret the necessity of shutting down the hospice, but feel it is a necessary precaution. In these troubled times, some seize upon wild rumors or spread treasonous slanders in order to justify their murderous rampages. Such dangerous renegades attempt to shift blame to their innocent victims, in this case, the self-sacrificing healers of the Queen's Physicians. We fear that these treacherous killers may strike again, cloaking their brutality behind a mask of deceit."

Would the Queen do this:

The PCs have exited the Hospice/Temple to rest & regroup before attacking again. They have killed most of the Physicians and guards, but in their rush, they have left most of the patients in their beds.

Would the Queen/Villains post the note above (thanks Sir_Wulf) but also slaughter all the patients?
(This makes the PCs seem worse, PLUS it gets rid of any potential witnesses to the physician's experiments or the heroe's good deeds).

Yes.

Why did they leave a bunch of sick people tied down to their beds? No, seriously, what the hell? If it was an oversight from them, give them some wiggle room, but I mean like, if you did the "ARE YOU SURE" dance with them then they deserve to absolutely just lose.

"Listen. You guys stay strapped down here, and inflicted with a potent and virulent disease that covers you with pus-filled blisters. We're going to go home and chillax for a bit and we might come get you."
"But, but please, sir, can't you rescue us now?"
Brandishes sword"I'm a PC! I do what I want!"

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