I've heard from two different sources now (people that have generally been right with predictions in the past, but couldn't provide a specific source this time) that the 2010 4E setting will be Dark Sun. Anyone else heard anything about this (anything substantial, that is)?
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I've heard from two different sources now (people that have generally been right with predictions in the past, but couldn't provide a specific source this time) that the 2010 4E setting will be Dark Sun. Anyone else heard anything about this (anything substantial, that is)?
From what I can see, it is only speculation. I wouldn't mind seeing Dark Sun pop up. However, WotC inplied this may be more of a surprise than anything. Kind of makes me wonder if the next setting might be something outside of the usual WotC realms. I have some suspicions myself, but I prefer to hold my cards close.
Going off of nothing but wild speculation, I'm going to say that the 4e campaign setting for 2010 is not Dark Sun (if I'm wrong I'll be happy though)
My guess is on DragonLance. At GenCon this year, we have DragonLances 25th anniversary. What better time to announce that 2010 will be the next campaign setting?
Jes' sayin'
I've heard from two different sources now (people that have generally been right with predictions in the past, but couldn't provide a specific source this time) that the 2010 4E setting will be Dark Sun. Anyone else heard anything about this (anything substantial, that is)?
I haven't heard anything specific but I find it very encouraging that wotc re-released the five original Dark Sun novels this year. Either they're gauging interest in the setting with the intention to slot it in a few years from now if the novels are well received or they've already decided to make it the 2010 choice and they're trying to drum up a fan base. There seems little reason to dredge out those novels otherwise.
Not being a fan of 4e, this would be a move that may encourage me to pick up the game. I never had a chance to play Darksun back in the day but dabbled with it in 3.X.
Even if I didn't decide to play 4e I would more than likely pick up the 4e Campaign version just for the fluff.
Eric
I am a big fan of 4E being setting-ized to old settings and would very much like to see this. A few people and I joke about being in the old setting conversion club at a play-by-post site where we chat. One of them has done Dark Sun, while I did Birthright, and we are trying to convince another to do Ravenloft 4E.
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I normally don't post in the 4e columns, but, as an avid follower of current events, I think I can provide some encouraging thoughts.
You can draw a big thick straight red line between Bill Slavicsek's work on Dark Sun in the past to Bill Slavicsek's "expected" work on 4e. Wherever he goes, his game ideas follow. The way he put the Star Wars minis game together is evident in the mechanics of 4e (in my opinion) and I would expect past to be prologue in 2010.
This post is not meant to disparage 4e in any way. Many of you know how I feel about it, however, on this point, I must add that I ran Dark Sun for years in the early 1990s as a DM and enjoyed it very much. I am also familiar with Athas.org, and have friends currently running Dark Sun campaigns. Truly, that campaign setting had teeth, as everyone remembers. It was a wonderful experience.
If they bring the setting back to print, even for 4e, I wish it well.
Put me down as another fan of Dark Sun. I ran it for three years back in the late 90s and our group had a fantastic time. I never got into it much during 3E, but I would love for it to show up in 4E.
Wasn't there a 4E Dark Sun article released in an issue of Dragon?
Put me down as another fan of Dark Sun. I ran it for three years back in the late 90s and our group had a fantastic time. I never got into it much during 3E, but I would love for it to show up in 4E.
Wasn't there a 4E Dark Sun article released in an issue of Dragon?
Yup. It's available for free in Dragon #364. It is, in my mind, the strongest indicator that they're willing to produce material (including potentially an entire campaign setting) for Dark Sun in 4th Edition.
are their psion's in 4e? casually interested...
are their psion's in 4e? casually interested...
Not yet, but there will be down the road - most likely in PHB3 or 4.
As for Dark Sun 4e, since day 1 I thought 4e was a better fit for Dark Sun than 3.x was and would make a great setting.
However, after some of comments in a recent Ampersand column and various speculation debating, in the "2010 campaign setting" betting pool, I have my money on Oriental Adventures/Kara Tur or some East Asian themed campaign. But, if I could buy into 2 squares of that betting, I'd put Dark Sun as my second choice.
In the end, however, there's still zero info. Sometime this summer, however, I'm sure it'll be announced.
4E could work well for DS, if they tone down the magic a lot. I don't know if they call pull it off I have little faith in wizards converting anything anymore. But the rule set is doable so we'll see
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The preview of the Monk class that will be in next year's PHB3 has them as a Psionic Striker, so we know the Psionic power source will likely be the big new one, compared with PHB2's Primal. Not exactly a bad idea for the Dark Sun setting to come out along with the psionics-heavy PHB, now is it?
Again, no actual evidence, but it does make you wonder.
Didn't Dark Sun also have an elementalist as well? I am pretty sure that it did and therefore it may wait until the Elementalist power source comes out.
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Didn't Dark Sun also have an elementalist as well? I am pretty sure that it did and therefore it may wait until the Elementalist power source comes out.
There were no gods in the setting, the conduits between mortals and the outer planes were all co-opted by the Sorcerer Kings so that they might grant spells to the Templars that followed them. Clerics, Rangers, and Druids all received their spells from veneration of one of the four elements, so yes, I could see a reason to delay until an Elemental power source is developed, or else they could just all go for Primal instead.
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The preview of the Monk class that will be in next year's PHB3 has them as a Psionic Striker, so we know the Psionic power source will likely be the big new one, compared with PHB2's Primal. Not exactly a bad idea for the Dark Sun setting to come out along with the psionics-heavy PHB, now is it?
Again, no actual evidence, but it does make you wonder.
In case anyone is still wondering what's going to be in PHB 3 - WotC spilled the beans.
Interesting. They're essentially putting a full 1/3rd of the PHB3 out for Insider subscribers before it's released.
Also, according to Trevor Kidd at WotC, the early PHB3 content will be made part of the Compendium and Character Builder as it comes out. It's final, playable stuff, not a playtest or preview like we've seen in Dragon in the past.
Each of the new Player's Guides have or will feature a class flavoured for that setting, but usable throughout any games. Forgotten Realms had the swordmage, Eberron will have the artificer, and it is possible that the Dark Sun Player's Guide (if it is to be) would feature a new Elemental leader class to fill the cleric role. Psionic classes can all be put into the PHB3. Assassin and gladiator have already been done as a multiclass feat chains. Templar could be done as multiclass feats, too. Unless there is going to be a redressing of the clerics of Dark Sun to the Divine power source, a new Elemental class would be pretty neat in the DSPG.
I'm not sure an elemental cleric needs it's own class. They were essentially the same as regular clerics, but all their spells were elemental in nature. So you just substitute the damage type for an elemental type and you're done really.
I think a Defiler class would be more important for Dark Sun. This is the big one for me as arcane magic is so much different on Athas than on other worlds. Some kind of ability to suck life out of the plants near the defiler to either power up spells or recharge encounter/daily spells would fit perfect.
Wizards could work as is, as that was how they worked in Dark Sun originally.
Well, previously there was the shugenja who, among other things, were often described as elemental clerics. I can imagine them being redone, maybe under a different name and placed within the Dark Sun setting in place of what positions the clerics held in the setting previously.
I'm not sure an elemental cleric needs it's own class. They were essentially the same as regular clerics, but all their spells were elemental in nature. So you just substitute the damage type for an elemental type and you're done really.
Sure. That could work. But I see the potential to create something more than that.
I think a Defiler class would be more important for Dark Sun. This is the big one for me as arcane magic is so much different on Athas than on other worlds. Some kind of ability to suck life out of the plants near the defiler to either power up spells or recharge encounter/daily spells would fit perfect.
Wizards could work as is, as that was how they worked in Dark Sun originally.
This will come down to describing how "magic" works more than anything else. I do not see much difference between a defiler and a preserver in effect. Only how they draw their power. Maybe defiling will become a wizard build (or even a sorcerer build), but will look a little different from what we have seen before. Or it could become a multiclass feat chain. Or a multiclass build like the spellscarred. There are many options.
A defiler was a much more powerful wizard, they gained spells faster and often cast them as 2 or more levels higher. I do not know enough about 4e to even guess at how to do this under that system but am sure it could be done
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is that a minotaur and a githyanki on the cover as playable races? drool.
As for darksun, of all the DnD novels I owned well before ever learning to play DnD (icewind dale, clerical quintent, spellfire, darkwalker) the Darksun Setting was the one that captured my imagination the most, from the awesome creature fought in the gladitorial pit, to the sorcerer kings the setting just had me enamored so much so that when I played a few 2nd ed games (without learning the rules you know how it is when your a kid) I would build gladiators and always wanted to be a half-dwarf. So If Darksun becomes a 4th ed campaign setting, and they don't gut it like the realms where it wouldn't be what I recognize when i read the books I will definitely pick up the 4th ed Darksun campaign setting and play in a 4th ed darksun game.
On the plus side if any setting could fit in such a plethora of playable races darksun could
Completely OT question for Scott Betts
Completely OT question for Scott Betts ** spoiler omitted **
I'll take a look at it. Converting from 4th Edition to 3.5 isn't really my forte, but I might be able to offer a bit of advice. Thanks.
A defiler was a much more powerful wizard, they gained spells faster and often cast them as 2 or more levels higher. I do not know enough about 4e to even guess at how to do this under that system but am sure it could be done
That's just it. The defiler was an uber-class. The only reason people played preservers was for role-playing reasons because the preserver was a second rate class compared to the defiler. On the surface that is all right if that was your type of game, but 4E is more about balanced classes and leaving the differences to the non-mechanical aspects of role-playing. If defiling is to not be some balanced mechanic, then it may left to a role-playing choice much like alignment has no mechanical effect anymore. I think that that would be a good way to go, but I'm open to a build option if it can be done in an interesting way. I'm not so tied to previous editions that I can not appreciate a new idea if it works for me.
I've heard from two different sources now (people that have generally been right with predictions in the past, but couldn't provide a specific source this time) that the 2010 4E setting will be Dark Sun. Anyone else heard anything about this (anything substantial, that is)?
This would change my take on 4E.
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Completely OT question for Scott Betts ** spoiler omitted **I'll take a look at it. Converting from 4th Edition to 3.5 isn't really my forte, but I might be able to offer a bit of advice. Thanks.
I figured that exactly, but you seem a nice guy and I figured if I asked nicely from the stuff you convert to 4e I think you've got the macguffins to give it a real go. :D
A defiler was a much more powerful wizard, they gained spells faster and often cast them as 2 or more levels higher. I do not know enough about 4e to even guess at how to do this under that system but am sure it could be doneThat's just it. The defiler was an uber-class. The only reason people played preservers was for role-playing reasons because the preserver was a second rate class compared to the defiler. On the surface that is all right if that was your type of game, but 4E is more about balanced classes and leaving the differences to the non-mechanical aspects of role-playing. If defiling is to not be some balanced mechanic, then it may left to a role-playing choice much like alignment has no mechanical effect anymore. I think that that would be a good way to go, but I'm open to a build option if it can be done in an interesting way. I'm not so tied to previous editions that I can not appreciate a new idea if it works for me.
Well preservers could defile, That option was open to them. Preservers where PHB wizards with some fluff added. Your spell level and the boost you got depended on where you prepared your spells. Lush forest and gardens got you a damned nice boost.
Also note people killed wizards on sight preserver or defiler did not matter. Even the Dragon kings killed them, unless they were a pet difiler
Really once you decide how magic works then you know how the two classes work
My personal bet is that Defiling will be done as a Ritual (or Rituals). That would let them make it significantly more balanced - no worries about someone suddenly super-recharging all their powers in combat. But out of combat, a Defiler might be able to drain the surrounding plant-life to renew healing surges or similar.
Ya know in 2e the preb was done out of combat, you drained the plant life when ya prepared your spells. Both class got boosts from better area's however a preserver needed a larger area.
Going off memory a defiler may take 10 feet of lush land for a spell while a persevere need 3 times that area, Also the preb time was much shorter for the dallier
Well you could have it as a class power, I think it's call or feature, not good on 4e terms of a wizard. No need to make it new class. Maybe something like a encounter power that gives you a boost to spell power based of how much plant life is in the area maybe
That could be cool and you could see the defiling...although high level defilers could pull life from any living thing as well.
Maybe something like a neg enrgry ring or some such. Boots spells cast
I really know little of 4e so just throwing out ideals is all
My personal bet is that Defiling will be done as a Ritual (or Rituals). That would let them make it significantly more balanced - no worries about someone suddenly super-recharging all their powers in combat. But out of combat, a Defiler might be able to drain the surrounding plant-life to renew healing surges or similar.
Ya know in 2e the preb was done out of combat, you drained the plant life when ya prepared your spells. Both class got boosts from better area's however a preserver needed a larger area.
Going off memory a defiler may take 10 feet of lush land for a spell while a persevere need 3 times that area, Also the preb time was much shorter for the dallier
The part I remember about defiling was that Defilers needed a lot less XP then preservers to gain levels,
Oh yes about half as much. It was a fast path to power. But it corrupted and the higher ya got in level ya lost Cha as you took on the taint of defiling
Hmmm. I might actually buy rulebooks from WotC again were they to release a Dark Sun 4E setting...
During the D&D insider seminars at GenCon last year several folks on the panels hinted that Dark Sun might very well be the setting to follow Eberron for 4e conversion. I'm talking James Wyatt here in particular, but he wasn't alone, several others made hints in the seminars also.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see it announced officially at GenCon this year as the next setting.
Defiling could also be defined as a Warlock Pact.
Defiling could also be defined as a Warlock Pact.
It would be something associated with all arcane casters not just warlocks.
Defiling could also be defined as a Warlock Pact.It would be something associated with all arcane casters not just warlocks.
I thought of that as well, but what if all other Arcane classes used Preserving magic, and only Warlocks Defiled?
Otherwise, having a mechanic that changes all Arcane casting could be complicated and inbalancing.
I have a feeling it will be something more akin to a ritual that may only be useful to arcane characters.
If they gave it to all arcane classes, it would need to have some balancing mechanics to make it both a benefit and hindrance. Something aside from the moral or situational implications of defiling.
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Hmmm. I might actually buy rulebooks from WotC again were they to release a Dark Sun 4E setting...
Perhaps that is the response that they are looking for. If it is well-executed, releasing Dark Sun could be a stroke of genius for WotC, bringing in the players of past editions that have avoided 4e thus far.
Hmmm. I might actually buy rulebooks from WotC again were they to release a Dark Sun 4E setting...Perhaps that is the response that they are looking for. If it is well-executed, releasing Dark Sun could be a stroke of genius for WotC, bringing in the players of past editions that have avoided 4e thus far.
Maybe...still you'd have to be pretty much standing right on the edge. Anyone that already has something against 4E will, in all likelihood, simply feel that WotC has 'ruined' Darksun. They're going to have to re-imagine a lot of the core concepts of the setting to get it to work with 4E and that's going to leave a lot of room to complain about WotC 'mistakes'.
I think the campaign setting can certainly be re-imagined to work with 4E but it won't be a clone of the 2nd edition version.
Maybe...still you'd have to be pretty much standing right on the edge. Anyone that already has something against 4E will, in all likelihood, simply feel that WotC has 'ruined' Darksun. They're going to have to re-imagine a lot of the core concepts of the setting to get it to work with 4E and that's going to leave a lot of room to complain about WotC 'mistakes'.I think the campaign setting can certainly be re-imagined to work with 4E but it won't be a clone of the 2nd edition version.
This. So this. More the pity. I would rather they did something new then another FR like abomination.
Do it right or not at all.