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Well, not sure what to say. The problem does seem to be what I said, but of course it could be working in the opposite direction (they are down, some people just haven't gotten the message). Here is a rpg.net thread discussing whether or not they are or are not actually dead.It's not working for me either.Give it a day or two. I know a few other people who can't reach them currently ... it seems likely they've changed IPs and that it hasn't propagated to all DNS servers yet. I promise you they are still up (I double checked just now!)Athas.org is still up and running.Doesn't seem to be.
It is working now. I guess it just took a while for my computer to get caught up.
Well, not sure what to say. The problem does seem to be what I said, but of course it could be working in the opposite direction (they are down, some people just haven't gotten the message). Here is a rpg.net thread discussing whether or not they are or are not actually dead.It's not working for me either.Give it a day or two. I know a few other people who can't reach them currently ... it seems likely they've changed IPs and that it hasn't propagated to all DNS servers yet. I promise you they are still up (I double checked just now!)Athas.org is still up and running.Doesn't seem to be.
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They had some technical difficulties but they're back up now.
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I heard second hand that they plan on making it clear in the Dark Sun books that divine characters would be the extreme exceptions in any campaigns in which they appear. In other words, not banned, but if you're a paladin, you're probably the only paladin in the world.
I think that's a good approach.
They've also hinted that they are going to be making changes to the arcane power source in the campaign books.
Has anyone been following Rich Baker's blog about Dark Sun. It looks like thri-kreen and mul are the new races and gladiator is the new class. Very excited about this setting.
Has anyone been following Rich Baker's blog about Dark Sun. It looks like thri-kreen and mul are the new races and gladiator is the new class. Very excited about this setting.
This is good news, from some of the stuff I read about the setting it was said that no new races would be included. You really could't have dark sun without the thri-kreen or muls.
Has anyone been following Rich Baker's blog about Dark Sun. It looks like thri-kreen and mul are the new races and gladiator is the new class. Very excited about this setting.This is good news, from some of the stuff I read about the setting it was said that no new races would be included. You really could't have dark sun without the thri-kreen or muls.
According to an interview with James Wyatt (and backed up by various designer's comments), there will not be a new class in the DSPG.
According to an interview with James Wyatt (and backed up by various designer's comments), there will not be a new class in the DSPG.Has anyone been following Rich Baker's blog about Dark Sun. It looks like thri-kreen and mul are the new races and gladiator is the new class. Very excited about this setting.This is good news, from some of the stuff I read about the setting it was said that no new races would be included. You really could't have dark sun without the thri-kreen or muls.
Your harshing my high, man.
According to an interview with James Wyatt (and backed up by various designer's comments), there will not be a new class in the DSPG.Has anyone been following Rich Baker's blog about Dark Sun. It looks like thri-kreen and mul are the new races and gladiator is the new class. Very excited about this setting.This is good news, from some of the stuff I read about the setting it was said that no new races would be included. You really could't have dark sun without the thri-kreen or muls.
Sure, you might be a dragonborn fighter, but we've got ways to make that guy feel like he's just as appropriate in the setting as your thri-kreen ranger or mul gladiator.
Not sure what it all means - perhaps some of this will be in Dragon mag. Regardless, looking forward to it.
According to an interview with James Wyatt (and backed up by various designer's comments), there will not be a new class in the DSPG.Has anyone been following Rich Baker's blog about Dark Sun. It looks like thri-kreen and mul are the new races and gladiator is the new class. Very excited about this setting.This is good news, from some of the stuff I read about the setting it was said that no new races would be included. You really could't have dark sun without the thri-kreen or muls.Sure, you might be a dragonborn fighter, but we've got ways to make that guy feel like he's just as appropriate in the setting as your thri-kreen ranger or mul gladiator.Not sure what it all means - perhaps some of this will be in Dragon mag. Regardless, looking forward to it.
I remember the back and forth statements about the Kalastar when Eberron was in development so I still hold out hope for thri-kreen, muls and half-giants in Dark Sun.
The half-giants will probably be reworked goliaths just like reworked dragonborn are going to be dray which could mean thri-kreen might end up as reworked bladelings. I doubt they will but I also hope they keep to the Boxed set vision of the world because we defiantly don’t need Pterran, aarakocra, elan or maenad in the game.
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I doubt they will but I also hope they keep to the Boxed set vision of the world because we defiantly don’t need Pterran, aarakocra, elan or maenad in the game.
Why not? I am not a big 4E fan, but I would think that anything which would enhance the game or give you more options would be benificial and help eliminate many detrators complaints.
Why not? I am not a big 4E fan, but I would think that anything which would enhance the game or give you more options would be benificial and help eliminate many detrators complaints.I doubt they will but I also hope they keep to the Boxed set vision of the world because we defiantly don’t need Pterran, aarakocra, elan or maenad in the game.
If you include everything into a setting then the setting becomes more or less like every other setting. A setting should inclued limits on player choices to keep it's individual flavor.
I like the idea that most of the genocides on the races were sucessfull so there shouldn't be a whole lot player races to begin with.
Dark Sun is set in a area the size of the American southwest and you have 13 player races to start with (PHB & PHB2), 14 if the thri-kreen are included, that is more than enough races for a 'small' setting.
FR and Eberron are entire worlds so twenty plus player races dosn't seem too over the top for them.
Fair enough.
EDIT: Though with Humans and Dwarves in the setting, Muls, though rare should still be part of the setting.
Also if you eliminate groups through a race war you should not then arbitrarily add others just because.
True that but I really like the thri-kreen and they are kind of iconic for Dark Sun.
Based on blog posts and forum comments, mul and thri-kreen are definitely in. Half-giants have not been mentioned anywhere to the best of recollection.
I can definitely see mul and thri-kreen making it in with full write-ups. Dragonborn seem to be taking the dray background and will appear as an "other" race available. Goliaths may take the half-giant place in a similar vein. There has been a statement that there will be no new classes in the Player's Guide, but there will be mechanics for giving a decidedly Dark Sun feel to the classes available. I can see the possibility of either alluding to the gladiator and art of the kill articles or some reprinting for their information. A defiling mechanic was alluded to in a blog post by Rodney Thompson (I believe) and it was something that could hurt your allies if used.
More and more hints are coming out but nothing too concrete in detail as yet.
And Rodney Thompson just had this to say.
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My biggest fear is that they will try and shoehorn races that don't really have anything to do with Athas ( Devas, Eladrin, Shifters, Tieflings, etc.) into the world like they did with Forgotten Realms. I'm willing to be open minded and see what they come up with. I'm just afraid they will break the setting that way.
I was never a big fan of FR and really couldn't offer an opinion on how bad WotC messed it up. I got the new FR setting books and they present an ok fantasy setting but nothing special.
The Eberron setting books on the other hand include almost all the same flavor and feel of the original Eberron setting. In fact Eberron keeps so much of the setting flavor that except for mechanics you can still use the 3.5 splat books to run a game.
I'm saying all this because after the beating they got over the FR setting WotC have learned that if you bring back a fan favorite setting you make it as close to that setting as possible, with as few changes as possible just to avoid pissing off the rabid fanboys who will give them nothing but bad publicity for the next year.
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See, to me if they could find a way to make the races fit into the setting, like they did with Ebberon, then I would be okay with it. On the other hand if the break the setting and just dump them in with no regard for what has come before, like what happened with Forgotten Realms, it will be a big mess.
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I was very excited when the d20 Modern Dark Matter book was announced. But it disappointed me. The page count didn't allow the treatment I was looking for. I vastly prefer the original stuff for its (relative) depth and amount of fluff.
I'm wondering if I should, in the words of a previous poster, "break my (virtual) boycott" and purchase the forthcoming Dark Sun books. Or should I buy the original boxed set on eBay?
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I'd say it is too early to tell. It sounds like WoTC is on the right track with thsi version of DarkSun and if so it will be one of my few if any 4E purchases.
On the otherhand if you can get the old books cheap they are always worth it. Regardless of the system. You could also just purchase the 3.5 update that was in Dragon and convert it to Pathfinder.
Devas as the last warriors of the divine, who lost the battle for civilization long ago - and now are left behind, their gods dead, cursed to be reborn again and again in a world that no longer has a place for them.
I'm totally stealing this for my setting. That is just awesome. Nice job.
Oh man I had forgotten about thatI wonder if they'll bring back the flip book modules...
Please no.
Actually, if you take a look at the WotC adventures now, they include a "player book" with handouts with a visual of each room. This may have been taken from these old flip books, that had the very same thing.
Just unfortunate that the DM flipbooks were so hit and miss, and the art in the player books was done by Baxa.
As long as Dark Sun 4E has a Magic Circle against Baxa on at all times, it should be a really great product :)
Ugh, Baxa. Unfortunately, he still does art for 4E.
This is something new they are doing with Dark Sun. It's own quasi monster manual.
Instead of the Player's Guide/Campaign Guide route they are going with a Campaign Guide which includes player information and a Creature Catalog for the decidedly Dark Sun monsters. I don't see a real issue with that. The region being covered is much smaller in comparison to the worlds of the Forgotten Realms and Eberron. There will be no new class. All in all they should be able to fit all they need into a Campaign book. I am looking forward to the Dark Sun Creature Catalog.
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This is something new they are doing with Dark Sun. It's own quasi monster manual.Instead of the Player's Guide/Campaign Guide route they are going with a Campaign Guide which includes player information and a Creature Catalog for the decidedly Dark Sun monsters. I don't see a real issue with that. The region being covered is much smaller in comparison to the worlds of the Forgotten Realms and Eberron. There will be no new class. All in all they should be able to fit all they need into a Campaign book. I am looking forward to the Dark Sun Creature Catalog.
I don't have an issue with it, I think it's a great idea. I wish they had done that with Forgotten Realms and Eberron as well.
This is something new they are doing with Dark Sun. It's own quasi monster manual.Instead of the Player's Guide/Campaign Guide route they are going with a Campaign Guide which includes player information and a Creature Catalog for the decidedly Dark Sun monsters. I don't see a real issue with that. The region being covered is much smaller in comparison to the worlds of the Forgotten Realms and Eberron. There will be no new class. All in all they should be able to fit all they need into a Campaign book. I am looking forward to the Dark Sun Creature Catalog.
I kind of liked having separate books for Players vs DMs. But I can see why they might have gone the new route. And hey, a book of new monsters is always welcome!
I kind of liked having separate books for Players vs DMs. But I can see why they might have gone the new route. And hey, a book of new monsters is always welcome!This is something new they are doing with Dark Sun. It's own quasi monster manual.Instead of the Player's Guide/Campaign Guide route they are going with a Campaign Guide which includes player information and a Creature Catalog for the decidedly Dark Sun monsters. I don't see a real issue with that. The region being covered is much smaller in comparison to the worlds of the Forgotten Realms and Eberron. There will be no new class. All in all they should be able to fit all they need into a Campaign book. I am looking forward to the Dark Sun Creature Catalog.
It actually seems kind of odd to me - the setting is so different from standard 4E conventions that I would have thought that we needed both a players book and a DMs book (and hey a monster manual is fine by me too) just to fit it all in.
It actually seems kind of odd to me - the setting is so different from standard 4E conventions that I would have thought that we needed both a players book and a DMs book (and hey a monster manual is fine by me too) just to fit it all in.I kind of liked having separate books for Players vs DMs. But I can see why they might have gone the new route. And hey, a book of new monsters is always welcome!This is something new they are doing with Dark Sun. It's own quasi monster manual.Instead of the Player's Guide/Campaign Guide route they are going with a Campaign Guide which includes player information and a Creature Catalog for the decidedly Dark Sun monsters. I don't see a real issue with that. The region being covered is much smaller in comparison to the worlds of the Forgotten Realms and Eberron. There will be no new class. All in all they should be able to fit all they need into a Campaign book. I am looking forward to the Dark Sun Creature Catalog.
Myabe they're putting out 3 Dark Sun Books instead of 2?
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I suspect that there will be mainly flavour changes (a homicidal, cannibalistic halfling ranger is probably mechanically the same as one who lives in Waterdeep or Sharn) for the races and (as stated) if there are no new classes, that reduces the page count on a Player's Guide quite dramatically. A lot of the Player's Guide geographical information can be covered in the Campaign Guide. And as Athas is small, there won't be so much of that anyway. I was personally wondering how they were going to do all the weird monsters in the previous two book format so this seems more sensible to me.
I suspect that there will be mainly flavour changes (a homicidal, cannibalistic halfling ranger is probably mechanically the same as one who lives in Waterdeep or Sharn) for the races and (as stated) if there are no new classes, that reduces the page count on a Player's Guide quite dramatically. A lot of the Player's Guide geographical information can be covered in the Campaign Guide. And as Athas is small, there won't be so much of that anyway. I was personally wondering how they were going to do all the weird monsters in the previous two book format so this seems more sensible to me.
I suppose - Originally they changed the physiology of the races somewhat but that could be done without changing the mechanics or one could even leave the physiology alone and focus on the cultural fluff.
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Huh. I was just listening to a WotC podcast from the DND Experience entitled "Athas Unveiled: Dark Sun Returns" and they said right out that there is no divine power source in 4e Dark Sun, and divine classes are not available in the setting as written (although they qualified that by noting that people can, of course, play however they want at home).
They talked about brigand elves as well, and cannibalistic halflings, although they didn't specifically mention any races as not being in the setting.
That's a surprising development, and might reassure folks who are concerned about them reflavoring the setting to accommodate the core races and classes.
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They talked about brigand elves as well, and cannibalistic halflings, although they didn't specifically mention any races as not being in the setting.
Okay, just had to keep listening. Using gnomes as an example, they said their answer was just not to mention those races in the setting. That way if a DM wants to work them in, he or she can do so, but they haven't tried to wedge races in there in any way.
But they did work in all of the Player's Handbook 1 races, apparently.
...there is no divine power source in 4e Dark Sun, and divine classes are not available in the setting as written...
Yes. That is exactly what I wanted to hear! I cannot wait for 4e Dark Sun to come out. It is going to be great.
There can only be one ...
This, along with Gamma World, are going to be a standalone product whereas I won't need the core PH or the DMG to play, correct?
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This, along with Gamma World, are going to be a standalone product whereas I won't need the core PH or the DMG to play, correct?
No. I think you are right about Gamma World, but Dark Sun is just being released as a couple of setting books for the 4e system, so the core rulebooks would still be necessary.
(That said, one could pull the fluff material from the Dark Sun books to convert to a different system. It might be easy or difficult, depending on what kind of information the books contain, and how system-specific they are.)
No. I think you are right about Gamma World, but Dark Sun is just being released as a couple of setting books for the 4e system, so the core rulebooks would still be necessary.
(That said, one could pull the fluff material from the Dark Sun books to convert to a different system. It might be easy or difficult, depending on what kind of information the books contain, and how system-specific they are.)
I would more than likely be doing it for the fluff in what you've described. Thanks!
From the character sheets presented it looks like they will include all the original Dark Sun races, Muls, Half-giants and thri-kreen.