4E Dark Sun?


4th Edition

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So I have to ask this question:

Are any of the people out there who don't play 4e going to get involved in this??

For the record, I don't play 4e and this remaking of the Dark Sun setting has me tempted beyond belief.

Dark Archive

Each new setting has added at least one new class and two new races. Any bets on what may come out of the Dark Sun Player's Guide? I betting Thri-Kreen and Muls for races, but classes I don't have a clue.

Dark Archive

Mac Boyce wrote:

So I have to ask this question:

Are any of the people out there who don't play 4e going to get involved in this??

For the record, I don't play 4e and this remaking of the Dark Sun setting has me tempted beyond belief.

Heathy has said it may tempt him to break his boycott.

Dark Archive

David Fryer wrote:
Mac Boyce wrote:

So I have to ask this question:

Are any of the people out there who don't play 4e going to get involved in this??

For the record, I don't play 4e and this remaking of the Dark Sun setting has me tempted beyond belief.

Heathy has said it may tempt him to break his boycott.

*stares in disbelief*

Really???


Tough call on classes- maybe templar. The elementalist clerics from 2E dark sun would probably work better as primal characters possibly using shaman. In fact the primal power source will likely feature quite heavily in the game along with psionics, martial and arcane, while divine will take a back seat, though I could see Invokers being interesting in Dark Sun.


P.H. Dungeon wrote:
Tough call on classes- maybe templar. The elementalist clerics from 2E dark sun would probably work better as primal characters possibly using shaman. In fact the primal power source will likely feature quite heavily in the game along with psionics, martial and arcane, while divine will take a back seat, though I could see Invokers being interesting in Dark Sun.

The Avenger was originally going to be called the Templar, I believe. WotC decided the name wasn't evocative enough or something and changed it.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I might actually pick this one up and run a 4e game, but I have a hard time imagining Dragonborn Paladins in Dark Sun...


Gorbacz wrote:
I might actually pick this one up and run a 4e game, but I have a hard time imagining Dragonborn Paladins in Dark Sun...

Aren't the Drey pretty similar to Dragonborn? As for Paladins, since they don't have to be LG any more they do seem like a plausible class option for a Tremplar.


Dark Sun for 2010

I just got a chubby. :)

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Bluenose wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
I might actually pick this one up and run a 4e game, but I have a hard time imagining Dragonborn Paladins in Dark Sun...
Aren't the Drey pretty similar to Dragonborn? As for Paladins, since they don't have to be LG any more they do seem like a plausible class option for a Tremplar.

Drey never had breath weapons. That's a big change compared to dragonborn.


David Fryer wrote:
Each new setting has added at least one new class and two new races. Any bets on what may come out of the Dark Sun Player's Guide? I betting Thri-Kreen and Muls for races, but classes I don't have a clue.

Don't forget the PH3 will have Psionic, Divine, and Primal classes. Also, I'm not if every setting will always introduce two new races and one new class. That said, some options:

Defiler - an Arcane (or Primal? I guess they are fueled by nature, technically speaking ...) caster class. I suppose this would imply that all other Arcane casters are Preservers. I don't really think this will be how the Defiler/Preserver breakdown in handled, though I don't really have an idea as to how it WILL be handled, so who knows?

Templar - Divine bureaucrat of a Sorcerer-King. Not a bad guess, the fact that they changed the Avenger's original name (it used to be Templar) may lend some credence; official word is that it didn't suit the final class well, but maybe it was because Dark Sun was decided on and they had a better use for the name? Still, it seems a likely way to handle all the Divine classes is to have them worship either nature or the Sorcerer-Kings, in which case you don't REALLY need a defined Templar class. If you are a Cleric/Paladin/Avenger/Invoke/RandomDivine who worships a Sorcerer-King then you ARE a Templar.

Preserver - see Defiler above; pretty much same exact idea, but reversed. All other Arcane casters are Defilers, this guy figured it out.

Some third way? I remember the Revised Box set had rules for a Trader class. The Original Box set had a Gladiator class, and the Bard was rather radically different. And if you wanted to get esoteric, there was the Cerulean Mage (although since this will be Original Box set timeline the Cerulean Storm won't be around). You also had Shadow Mages and Necromancers added later on (and built up quite a bit by Athas.org during 3E).

Maybe this would be easier if we had a better view of PH3's final spread.


Kvantum wrote:
Drey never had breath weapons. That's a big change compared to dragonborn.

IMHO, I'm not really that sure that is a big change, though it might be possible that they change racial powers for DS. What if they change the Elven Accuracy to something that better suits the DS Elf Fluff, maybe give them some sort of Sprint encounter power (going from memory here, I don't have DS close at hand).

Dark Archive

Mac Boyce wrote:
David Fryer wrote:
Mac Boyce wrote:

So I have to ask this question:

Are any of the people out there who don't play 4e going to get involved in this??

For the record, I don't play 4e and this remaking of the Dark Sun setting has me tempted beyond belief.

Heathy has said it may tempt him to break his boycott.

*stares in disbelief*

Really???

Yep.
Heathansson wrote:
They......tempt me with Dark Sun. Tempt me bad. Sebastian was right. He knew I'd fail.

Dark Archive

David Marks wrote:
David Fryer wrote:
Each new setting has added at least one new class and two new races. Any bets on what may come out of the Dark Sun Player's Guide? I betting Thri-Kreen and Muls for races, but classes I don't have a clue.

Don't forget the PH3 will have Psionic, Divine, and Primal classes. Also, I'm not if every setting will always introduce two new races and one new class.

That's true, they may not, however it has been the trend. I am looking forward to seeing what they add in PHB 3. Already the Monk and Psion previews look exceptional. The power levels seem a little high, but until I can convince someone in my group to play one, I won't know for sure. I expect that Preserver/Defiler will be handled in someway other than classes. My bet is that Defiler will be the default for Arcane casters and the Preserver will be a feat, but don't quote me on that. Templar maybe a good choice for a class, or it could be a Paragon path for any divine character.

Sovereign Court

Mac Boyce wrote:

So I have to ask this question:

Are any of the people out there who don't play 4e going to get involved in this??

For the record, I don't play 4e and this remaking of the Dark Sun setting has me tempted beyond belief.

I don't boycott 4e or anything, just not my bread and butter since I love low level play and skill points. This however may be enough for me to kick over and actually pick up at least the DMG and DSCS

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Raevhen wrote:
Kvantum wrote:
Drey never had breath weapons. That's a big change compared to dragonborn.

IMHO, I'm not really that sure that is a big change, though it might be possible that they change racial powers for DS. What if they change the Elven Accuracy to something that better suits the DS Elf Fluff, maybe give them some sort of Sprint encounter power (going from memory here, I don't have DS close at hand).

It's the "dragon" in dragonborn. Otherwise they're just lizardmen with a new name.

I do agree with the idea about the elves and a Sprint power, though. Plus a base speed of at least 7, if not 8.

Liberty's Edge

Mac Boyce wrote:

So I have to ask this question:

Are any of the people out there who don't play 4e going to get involved in this??

For the record, I don't play 4e and this remaking of the Dark Sun setting has me tempted beyond belief.

I vacillate between tempted and pissed off that 3e didn't give a whit of support past 2-3 Dungeon/Dragon features.

I've wanted a new Dark Sun for 10 years. It's why I bought into 3e.
I probably won't. I'm not buying into stuff unless I got a RL crew together, and I'm kinda busy with RL bullcrap for the forseeable 10 years.

Liberty's Edge

But.....I am seriously tempted.

Liberty's Edge

I'll prolly look into scoring the required stuff at HalfPrice Books; IDK how much it'll all be so....I don't want to buy 2 PHB's, 2 MM's, a Dark Sun manual, a dark sun monster book, a dark sun player's guide, a dark sun magic manual, a dark sun divine/elemental manual,.....
I guess that the closer to all inclusive the book is, the more likely I am to score it.

Silver Crusade

Heathansson wrote:

I'll prolly look into scoring the required stuff at HalfPrice Books; IDK how much it'll all be so....I don't want to buy 2 PHB's, 2 MM's, a Dark Sun manual, a dark sun monster book, a dark sun player's guide, a dark sun magic manual, a dark sun divine/elemental manual,.....

I guess that the closer to all inclusive the book is, the more likely I am to score it.

So far they've been doing 3 items for each setting: a campaign guide, a player's guide, and an adventure. So it would be 3 DS items, max.

Of course, that's on top of the core rulebooks, which they are going to keep releasing because that's what they do.

Dark Archive

Celestial Healer wrote:


Of course, that's on top of the core rulebooks, which they are going to keep releasing because that's what they do.

Which at that point will consist of three Player's handbooks, three monster manuals, and three DMGs. Of course I have managed to get by with just one DMG.

Silver Crusade

David Fryer wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:


Of course, that's on top of the core rulebooks, which they are going to keep releasing because that's what they do.
Which at that point will consist of three Player's handbooks, three monster manuals, and three DMGs. Of course I have managed to get by with just one DMG.

I like me some Player's Handbooks. I want at least eleven.

Liberty's Edge

There's no Darksun monsters in the MMi or MMii is there? Aside from the usual stuff....i.e. there's no belgoi, gith.....though there may be a thri kreen(?)
More power to ya with the player's hand books, but my angle is I'm not gonna shell out another stack of c-notes on a game I don't have time to play.
A campaign guide, a monster manual,....I might pick them up at half price books; IDK. I got the 2e of that stuff anyway.
Also worried about them porting those dragonborn douchebags into Dark Sun.

Liberty's Edge

Now if I was back with my original homey crew, I know they're gonna buy all that stuff and play it, so I'd be a lot more tempted.


I think the dark sun monsters, at least the important ones, will be included in the campaign guide and the MM3 which comes out next year as well.

Some of them are pretty easy to modify from existing monsters though.

Tareks are pretty much just orcs, Gith are pretty much just a regular humanoid race that can jump high.

I would like to see stats though for all the monsters they did in the dragon/dungeon articles.


You know, one thing that perplexed me back when 4E FR came out was that, despite they fact that they had been emphasized since the beginning of 3E, shades were not introduced, and instead were rolled into Shadar-kai, which struck me as being quite different in flavor and look than shades.

So I'm kind of hoping that there is a minimum of "X that's already details is really Y in this setting." I would much rather see half-giants that are their own thing than just saying that goliaths are half-giants in Dark Sun, for example.


KnightErrantJR wrote:

You know, one thing that perplexed me back when 4E FR came out was that, despite they fact that they had been emphasized since the beginning of 3E, shades were not introduced, and instead were rolled into Shadar-kai, which struck me as being quite different in flavor and look than shades.

So I'm kind of hoping that there is a minimum of "X that's already details is really Y in this setting." I would much rather see half-giants that are their own thing than just saying that goliaths are half-giants in Dark Sun, for example.

Shades are in the 4e FRCS; they're a template. Shadar-kai are now their servitors.


KnightErrantJR wrote:

You know, one thing that perplexed me back when 4E FR came out was that, despite they fact that they had been emphasized since the beginning of 3E, shades were not introduced, and instead were rolled into Shadar-kai, which struck me as being quite different in flavor and look than shades.

So I'm kind of hoping that there is a minimum of "X that's already details is really Y in this setting." I would much rather see half-giants that are their own thing than just saying that goliaths are half-giants in Dark Sun, for example.

But half-giants and goliaths are actually VERY similar. I could see maybe a new racial power as half-giants don't have a stony hide.

Some kind of stomp power would work well, or just give them reach maybe.

Otherwise, racial bonuses to strength and constitution are par for the course, and maybe give them a Fort bonus rather than Will.

Thri-kreen will be a race for sure, and maybe pterrans or aarakocra. I think Muls will just be a rehash of half-orcs.


Shroomy wrote:


Shades are in the 4e FRCS; they're a template. Shadar-kai are now their servitors.

You are correct. I missed that because its been a while since I looked at the book at the FLGS, and because I was so perplexed by the "younger generation of Shade residents are being born as Shadar-kai" that I kind of slipped the track there. Sorry about that.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
David Marks wrote:
KnightErrantJR wrote:

Honestly, I'll be interested in seeing how this plays out. I will be interested in seeing if they decide to do the "full reset" or if they try to continue the story of previous editions.

They are resetting to the original boxset in timeline, with novels not being canon.

I noticed that, which is very cool. I still dont' understand why they changed FR so much while they didn't change Eberron really, and apparently aren't messing up Dark Sun either.


I think FR ended up being an experiment by WotC. Needless to say, it failed horribly as there are a LOT of angry FR fans out there.

At least those fans have the FR 3rd edition books to fall back on though. Dark Sun has been neglected for far too long.

The Exchange

Heathansson wrote:
But.....I am seriously tempted.

DON'T GO TO THE DARKSIDE, HEATHY!!! You should have hit up Athas.org for 3.X Darksun upgrades before WotC decided to shut them down so they wouldn't have any competition in the Dark Sun arena!

I think you can download it, or some of it, here.
http://www.4shared.com/file/39855022/85b83ec4/Dark_Sun_35_Complete.html


Pop'N'Fresh wrote:
I think FR ended up being an experiment by WotC. Needless to say, it failed horribly as there are a LOT of angry FR fans out there.

It seems that WotC made a lot of enraging decisions during the time of the 4e announcement and subsequent release, such as revoking licenses, ending two longstanding print magazines, FR blow up, delayed GSL, unsatisfactory GSL when it finally released, etc. This seemed to cause many people to have an immediate negative reaction to 4e. It feels that now that most of that nonsense is starting to wind down and they are making more popular decisions (updating popular setting without overhauling them, supporting throwback products such as Dark Sun and Tomb of Horrors, spending more focus on noncombat-related aspects of the game, bringing back popular races and classes in the PHB2), there seems to be more open mindedness to the game.

A lot of people still prefer 3.5/Pathfinder, which is fine (and excellent for Paizo!), but I think there is overall less hostility for 4e.

Liberty's Edge

I'm still kinda hostile.

I don't see the point of me of going on a 4e spampurchase spree. I'd be more open to a modular all-inclusive buy, but I don't see that happening.


Fake Healer wrote:
Heathansson wrote:
But.....I am seriously tempted.

DON'T GO TO THE DARKSIDE, HEATHY!!! You should have hit up Athas.org for 3.X Darksun upgrades before WotC decided to shut them down so they wouldn't have any competition in the Dark Sun arena!

I think you can download it, or some of it, here.
http://www.4shared.com/file/39855022/85b83ec4/Dark_Sun_35_Complete.html

Athas.org is still up and running. If you're interested in getting 3.x Dark Sun material, they're the source you want.

Liberty's Edge

Yeah; I know....I like books...meh.

Sovereign Court

Heathansson wrote:
Yeah; I know....I like books...meh.

I too am considering learning the 4E system simply because of Dark Sun resurrection. Athas.org did an excellent job of keeping it on life support and now its back!!! I am incredibly excited about this, despite the fact I am a total Paizo fan boy and can't wait to start playing Pathfinder. WotC did something right for once, Dark Sun is where it's at and will thus probably get a few of my dollars, especially if I find a group to play with.


I will actually make the trip to Gen Con 2010 from Vancouver Canada if they are selling the Dark Sun book at their booth next year.

I already own all the 2nd edition modules, boxed sets, expansion books, and novels, so I must have this as well.

And if they did a 4E Birthright setting in 2011.....well....that was just be swell!!! Although that's a longshot.


My only hope is that they keep Tom Baxa as far from the the new setting material as possible. I've always hated his art.


Dr. Confoundo wrote:
My only hope is that they keep Tom Baxa as far from the the new setting material as possible. I've always hated his art.

Amem, amen, I say to you, amen. I've never, ever been a fan of Baxa's work.


KnightErrantJR wrote:
Dr. Confoundo wrote:
My only hope is that they keep Tom Baxa as far from the the new setting material as possible. I've always hated his art.
Amem, amen, I say to you, amen. I've never, ever been a fan of Baxa's work.

Bar Baxa and bring back Brom. It was Brom's cover of the box set that made me buy Dark Sun and I have an old framed lithograph of Neeva still hanging on my wall that inspired the mood for every game played in the setting.


I read that at the seminar someone asked about Brom and WotC wants to bring him back to do some work, but they weren't sure if they could swing it because he's very busy right now.

Dark Archive

David Marks wrote:
Athas.org is still up and running.

Doesn't seem to be.

The Exchange

amethal wrote:
David Marks wrote:
Athas.org is still up and running.
Doesn't seem to be.

Yeah, that's what I saw too. I assumed(and still do, they tend to do that type of thing) that WotC put the Kibosh on them when they decided to announce a Dark Sun setting upcoming.


amethal wrote:
David Marks wrote:
Athas.org is still up and running.
Doesn't seem to be.

Give it a day or two. I know a few other people who can't reach them currently ... it seems likely they've changed IPs and that it hasn't propagated to all DNS servers yet. I promise you they are still up (I double checked just now!)


Kvantum wrote:
I do agree with the idea about the elves and a Sprint power, though. Plus a base speed of at least 7, if not 8.

IIRC, elves already have a base speed of 7.

Dark Archive

David Marks wrote:
amethal wrote:
David Marks wrote:
Athas.org is still up and running.
Doesn't seem to be.
Give it a day or two. I know a few other people who can't reach them currently ... it seems likely they've changed IPs and that it hasn't propagated to all DNS servers yet. I promise you they are still up (I double checked just now!)

It's not working for me either.

Dark Archive

Sebastrd wrote:
Kvantum wrote:
I do agree with the idea about the elves and a Sprint power, though. Plus a base speed of at least 7, if not 8.
IIRC, elves already have a base speed of 7.

That's correct.


I wonder if they'll bring back the flip book modules...

Please no.


David Fryer wrote:
David Marks wrote:
amethal wrote:
David Marks wrote:
Athas.org is still up and running.
Doesn't seem to be.
Give it a day or two. I know a few other people who can't reach them currently ... it seems likely they've changed IPs and that it hasn't propagated to all DNS servers yet. I promise you they are still up (I double checked just now!)
It's not working for me either.

Well, not sure what to say. The problem does seem to be what I said, but of course it could be working in the opposite direction (they are down, some people just haven't gotten the message). Here is a rpg.net thread discussing whether or not they are or are not actually dead.

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